Divine Ire + Concentrated Effect?

[Mordy]

Something i'm missing here?

The skill has AoE tag, but Concentrated Effect doesn't seem to do anything for it damage wise, though i suspect this might be a tooltip issue, but figured would ask to be sure since this is the first time i've played with the skill for more than few minutes.

So you who have made builds out of Divine Ire or just been using it a lot, does Concentrated Effect boost the damage despite the tooltip saying no?

[Ratt]

This is odd. Path of Building says it should do nothing too, but Divine Ire's wiki page says "Divine Ire's beam has a fixed length and width, though area damage modifiers from all sources still apply".

Between Divine Ire's fixed AoE, its cap on number of targets affected, and the visual effects, it might instead be dealing direct, non-AoE hits to targets and only using the AoE to mark valid targets for the hits. That said, a skill tagged AoE that can't have its AoE modified in any way and doesn't deal area damage probably shouldn't have the AoE gem tag in the first place, since those are meant to be hints to newbies as to what support gems and other buffs can be expected to work with a skill.

I'd submit this as a bug; either Divine Ire should deal area damage and thus be affected by modifiers to area damage, including Concentrated Effect, and report this in its tooltip, or else it shouldn't have an AoE tag.

[The_Driver]

Originally posted by Ratt:

I'd submit this as a bug; either Divine Ire should deal area damage and thus be affected by modifiers to area damage, including Concentrated Effect, and report this in its tooltip, or else it shouldn't have an AoE tag.

Tags are just tags, they don't necessarily mean that things should interact with them based on tags. Tags are used to determine if a skill is a *TAG* skill for purposes like "if you've used a *TAG* skill recently" or "to level of *TAG* skills" and so on.

To quote a GGG employee (Mark):
https://old.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/d2eiub/given_the_gem_description_elemental_proliferation/ezy085r/

The tags of a skill are based on it's base behaviour, not things supports can add to it

[+|A.O|+]

Umm.. I think you reduced the AoE for the charging part of divine ire.

It's that charging phase that is affected by the conc effect gem, not the beam!

[Drake]

Yeah, a fair amount of skills have multiple phases (most of them being melee attacks). The tags don't specifiy for which phase it works with. Like divine ire is in 2 parts, the charging aoe and the beam. Only the charging aoe is an aoe (and channeling for that matters), the beam is just a regular hit (i.e. not a protectile, not an aoe, not a chain etc.).

[Ratt]

Originally posted by MNI +|A.O|+:

Umm.. I think you reduced the AoE for the charging part of divine ire.

It's that charging phase that is affected by the conc effect gem, not the beam!

Originally posted by Sajah:

Yeah, a fair amount of skills have multiple phases (most of them being melee attacks). The tags don't specifiy for which phase it works with. Like divine ire is in 2 parts, the charging aoe and the beam. Only the charging aoe is an aoe (and channeling for that matters), the beam is just a regular hit (i.e. not a protectile, not an aoe, not a chain etc.).

Yeah, but OP said it "doesn't seem to do anything for it damage wise" without specifying the beam damage. The charging phase does damage too. At least one of them has to be AoE, so at least one of them should be area damage, and by the visuals, it should be the beam. I stand by it being buggy unless it really does do more damage with Concentrated Effect at some point.

[+|A.O|+]

Originally posted by Ratt:

and by the visuals, it should be the beam.

No.. The beam is not AoE

If you wanna verify, check the charging radius when you apply increased AoE.. you'll see AoE modifier affecting it (I've tested this).


Also, the damage multiplier is on AoE part of the skill (i.e. the charging phase has increased damage, which is kinda pointless for divine ire player since the beam is the main source of damage)

[Drake]

Visuals are not trustworthy, observation doesn't matter, the only thing that matters is how it's coded. The beam is not aoe, because beams don't factor aoe mods in their effect formula.

In the same manner, you can look at lightning arrow. There is an aoe tag, but the arrows don't benefit from aoe damage becasue they are not aoe projectiles, they are just regular lightning projectiles, the aoe part only affect the radius for determining which target will be struck by the lightning.

[Ratt]

Originally posted by MNI +|A.O|+:

Originally posted by Ratt:

and by the visuals, it should be the beam.

No.. The beam is not AoE

If you wanna verify...

Originally posted by Sajah:

Visuals are not trustworthy, observation doesn't matter, the only thing that matters is how it's coded. The beam is not aoe, because beams don't factor aoe mods in their effect formula.

"Should be" and "is" are not the same. That said,

Originally posted by MNI +|A.O|+:

the damage multiplier is on AoE part of the skill (i.e. the charging phase has increased damage, which is kinda pointless for divine ire player since the beam is the main source of damage)

if this is true, then the gem tag at least isn't misleading and there's no problem beyond the visual and mechanical effects being at odds. GGG doesn't seem to care about the latter (c.f. Winter Orb, Soulrend, Celestial Leap Slam, etc.), so there's nothing to report.

[Mordy]

Huh.

Why do most builds (at least all the ones i've checked) include Concentrated Effect if only applies to the AoE charging portion of the skill?

Path of Building shows the Divine Ire losing a LOT of damage if the gem is toggled off, which is why i decided to ask about it, cos the tooltip does not change which is throwing me off and now a quick google search seems to indicate that the beam benefits from Concentrated Effect and not the charging phase.

So now i'm just thoroughly confused..