Vaaling my gems

[✪ K r i s]

Hello guys,

Ii was wondering if it is worth vaaling my aura's and support gems..

as i can hardly find proper threads or answered questions (about this matter) trough google i'm bound to ask it here..

I vaaled my winter orb and it now has 22% quality but i don't know if i should just vaal the thigns i meantioned above which are aura's and support gems

[+|A.O|+]

Look up the gem in Poe Wiki.

If getting level 21 or +2-3% quality is worth the vaal as per the gem's value sheet. You should.

Else, don't bother.

[The_Driver]

Originally posted by ✪ Kris:

I vaaled my winter orb and it now has 22% quality but i don't know if i should just vaal the thigns i meantioned above which are aura's and support gems

It depends on the possible increase in performance... which depends on the gem scaling.

Say you're talking about https://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Wrath
It has 2 main stats that are affected by level:
- Lightning Damage with Attacks
- more Lightning Damage with Spells

And a stat influenced by quality:
- inc area of effect

Now, to know whether vaaling that thing benefits you, you need to know your useful stats of those. If you're alone, have no minions or the like, the quality doesn't matter, as area doesn't matter, as it only needs to take effect on you.

Well that and what vaaling can do: add levels or add quality (well for the positive cases that is).
The other positive outcome would be a plus level, but if you look at the values provided for the stats, the lightning damage with spells is "21% more" for both level 20 and 21, so if you have no further changes to the level (e.g. because it's socketed in an item that increases the level of socketed gems or you have something like +1 to level of all lightning gems) and are using spells to deal your damage, you'd not benefit. Or rather need to get it to effective level 22, 25, 28, 32 and so on to gain a benefit. You'll need to check that against your gear, to see if you meet such threshold.

If on the other hand you use attacks, it's a flat added bonus which does scale every single level, so getting that +1 level from the gem corruption would benefit you.

--

You can analyze that for the other gems as well and then decide which grants you huge benefits. The easy way is to use PoB and just change the gem and compare, you can then see how much your stats change - if at all - and if the investment is in the ballpark of being worth it by checking prices online.

It's a rather endgame thing to do, as most gems don't scale too much off of the last 3% or 1 lvl (besides your main skills).

Note that vaaling can decrease the value of the gem significantly. Have a backup.

[Brian9824]

Yep just remember Vaaling a gem can LOWER its level permanently, do nothing, boost its quality, raise its level, etc.

Some gems when combined with empower or gear get powerful synergies.

Like for instance Summon Skeletons if you combine it with gear and other stuff at level 24 you get a 9th skeleton.

Level 25 raise zombie gets you an 8th zombie, etc

So if you can hit one of those breakpoints it can be extra strong

[+|A.O|+]

Originally posted by The_Driver:

Originally posted by ✪ Kris:

I vaaled my winter orb and it now has 22% quality but i don't know if i should just vaal the thigns i meantioned above which are aura's and support gems

It depends on the possible increase in performance... which depends on the gem scaling.

Say you're talking about https://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Wrath
It has 2 main stats that are affected by level:
- Lightning Damage with Attacks
- more Lightning Damage with Spells

And a stat influenced by quality:
- inc area of effect

Now, to know whether vaaling that thing benefits you, you need to know your useful stats of those. If you're alone, have no minions or the like, the quality doesn't matter, as area doesn't matter, as it only needs to take effect on you.

Well that and what vaaling can do: add levels or add quality (well for the positive cases that is).
The other positive outcome would be a plus level, but if you look at the values provided for the stats, the lightning damage with spells is "21% more" for both level 20 and 21, so if you have no further changes to the level (e.g. because it's socketed in an item that increases the level of socketed gems or you have something like +1 to level of all lightning gems) and are using spells to deal your damage, you'd not benefit. Or rather need to get it to effective level 22, 25, 28, 32 and so on to gain a benefit. You'll need to check that against your gear, to see if you meet such threshold.

If on the other hand you use attacks, it's a flat added bonus which does scale every single level, so getting that +1 level from the gem corruption would benefit you.

--

You can analyze that for the other gems as well and then decide which grants you huge benefits. The easy way is to use PoB and just change the gem and compare, you can then see how much your stats change - if at all - and if the investment is in the ballpark of being worth it by checking prices online.

It's a rather endgame thing to do, as most gems don't scale too much off of the last 3% or 1 lvl (besides your main skills).

Note that vaaling can decrease the value of the gem significantly. Have a backup.

Thank you for simply elaborating my point rofl.

[+|A.O|+]

Originally posted by brian9824:

Yep just remember Vaaling a gem can LOWER its level permanently, do nothing, boost its quality, raise its level, etc.

Some gems when combined with empower or gear get powerful synergies.

Like for instance Summon Skeletons if you combine it with gear and other stuff at level 24 you get a 9th skeleton.

Level 25 raise zombie gets you an 8th zombie, etc

So if you can hit one of those breakpoints it can be extra strong

Good point! I didn't mention the bad effects of vaaling.

I do believe in "Vaal or no Balls" for keks xD

[Ratt]

Originally posted by brian9824:

Yep just remember Vaaling a gem can LOWER its level permanently

Nope. If vaaling levels a gem down to 19, you're free to grind it back up to 20. You can permanently reduce its quality, though.

[davidb11]

Yeah, that's true, but what he said is not as bad as people who thought your gems could disappear from being vaaled. :P

[READ PALE]

Originally posted by davidb11:

Yeah, that's true, but what he said is not as bad as people who thought your gems could disappear from being vaaled. :P

Well, they can if you use the shrine of corruption in the Alva temple.

[davidb11]

I didn't know that was possible. More reason for me to never use that shrine on anything ever.
I don't like gambling on bad odds. Good odds, sure. But not bad odds. :P

[Ratt]

Originally posted by davidb11:

I didn't know that was possible. More reason for me to never use that shrine on anything ever.
I don't like gambling on bad odds. Good odds, sure. But not bad odds. :P

The worst outcome is losing a gem that you can buy a replacement for from an NPC and level back up, even in SSF. The good outcomes, like otherwise impossible 21/23 gems or level 21 Vaal gems, are worth it.

[davidb11]

Fair enough. I just was not the biggest fan of breaking items via corrupting them, so I don't use my vaal orbs that much, :P.
The corruption altar scares me to be fair. Even on the items where you can get an amazing double-implicit.
I'd rather farm the cards that do that.
Even though they're probably all high tier things I'll never get to experience.

[Ratt]

Originally posted by davidb11:

Fair enough. I just was not the biggest fan of breaking items via corrupting them, so I don't use my vaal orbs that much, :P.
The corruption altar scares me to be fair. Even on the items where you can get an amazing double-implicit.
I'd rather farm the cards that do that.
Even though they're probably all high tier things I'll never get to experience.

Oh, yeah, vaaling most items is scary, and anything worth a trying for a double implicit on is too scary for me to risk breaking. Double-corrupting other items doesn't hold much value for me, then, but double-corrupting a gem I'm fine with since, worst case, I can just get a new gem.

[Ratt]

Originally posted by Re-peat-peat-peat-peat-peat-peat:

Originally posted by Ratt:

The worst outcome is losing a gem that you can buy a replacement for from an NPC and level back up, even in SSF. The good outcomes, like otherwise impossible 21/23 gems or level 21 Vaal gems, are worth it.

It's probably better to buy a lvled/quality gem and lvl it. Saves some time if you dont play all day. Course that's assuming the gem your using is cheap even with the quality/lvls.

It is, if you're willing to trade, but I ended the sentence with "even in SSF". Trade spoils progression, so even though I don't play actual SSF characters, I do personally choose to avoid certain kinds of trading, so buying the gem from the NPC is what I personally would do.

[Brian9824]

I use a toxic rain build for instance and i'm leveling 5 20% toxic rain gems atm. Will vaal all 5 and hope for a lvl 21 i can use and sell the rest when i'm done.

Make sure to take advantage of your off hand gear and you can level more gems that way.