how to scale bleed?

[mad at video games]

so from what I gather, phys damage increases bleed damage. Increased damage over time and increased damage with ailments caused by attacks also increase bleed damage. However, only flat phys increase (increased physical damage passives) and increase in phys with the weapon you're using (like increaed physical damage with bows if you're using a bow) will scale bleed. Do I have this right? gotta make sure I got it down so I don't have a 0.1 dps build

[J's]

so far, my build rely on increased physical damage and ailment damage mostly from weapon (sword and/or one handed) and shield nodes

i've also selected some bleed passives to get up to 85% base chance to remove the bleeding support in favor of multi-strike + cleave + maim + increase phys damage (it kinds of look like ennemies are throwing themselves in a blender :D)

I intend to use blasphemy + vulnerability (increase both phys dmg and DoT)... and if I'm lucky enough to get the unique that allows for 2 curses I'll add the one that reduce ennemy dmg since I'm a melee build.

here's the planned build tree (although I might do some small tweak here and there) :
https://www.pathofexile.com/fullscreen-passive-skill-tree/3.0.1/AAAABAQDAQHnBIcFPAkzDPcQ8BRNFHEUdRUgGJEY2xo-GlUbqhutG_ohYCXfKCopLixkLJQtMC_MMfsyTjboOSU94kCgQzFEnkWaRalGaUa3R35IeEjuTUZTu1qfW69fOV8_YSFhUmIXYuxjF2VNZrZr1G8ncsN08XiueTl71Hy4fuJ_44E6ggeElITZhO-GYIjtiXGLT4zPj2CPmZAKl3maapstm1ibap7NpBmnMKmVqqSqzasLrK-wq7Gztoq8n702vqe_1cC_wQfBgsS4xVPMBtE20iHTb9N-1fjXftl82sHcMt0N3ePh7-Is5FHpdunV7Fzueu968i_yQfJa9Ob2SPaj-hj8Sw==

edit : also, according to the wiki your bleed effect (or effects if you take the 8 stack node) will be determined by wathever HIT phys dmg triggers it... so basicaly anything that boost your main skill's phys dmg is good... anything that lower/convert it to elemental dmg is bad... thus look for skills that do only phys dmg (such as cleave)

[DR. Nooooooooooooooo[B]]

look in the wiki for the keywords that affect build. As the other guy said incrrased phys damage will affect bleed but increased ATTACK damage wont.

[mad at video games]

So you could simply read what I said in the first post and say yes or no...

[Tenzek]

That is right, but there is an additional detail you should keep in mind. Bleed damage is based on a percentage of your base, so more general damage boosts will scale both the base physical and the bleed.

For example, "increased damage," or "increased physical damage" will indirectly scale your bleed by making the hit it is based off of bigger, but it will also scale the bleed damage. If you use "increased meleee physical" then it will increase the base damage of your weapon, making the bleed bigger, but it will not also scale the bleed.

In short, the more general damage boosts will allow you to "double dip" their bonuses.

[Drake]

Double dipping is gone. Increased melee damage or any weapon damage, projectile damage, aoe damage etc. doesn't work on ailments.
Thsi is why you have now specific "%increased damage of ailments with melee weapons" for example.

Only the flat damage of a weapon and the general %increased physica damage will increase the bleed. Others won't unless it specifies the "ailment" part.

You can look at the melee physical damage support gem to see how it works, you get 2 lines one for the hit, one for the ailment, because the one for the hit >>> DOESN'T WORK ON AILMENTS <<<. And the %quality of the MPD support doesn't work on bleed, because it's melee physical, not ailment caused by melee skills.

[Tenzek]

Read what I actually typed. You clearly did not. Spot the difference between what you assumed I said and what I actually said.

You can quickly see that what I am saying is correct by trying it yourself with a blue jewel that has only one effect on it. Check your damage and your bleed damage before and after, and compare the increase as a ratio.

[mad at video games]

Originally posted by Tenzek:

Read what I actually typed. You clearly did not. Spot the difference between what you assumed I said and what I actually said.

You can quickly see that what I am saying is correct by trying it yourself with a blue jewel that has only one effect on it. Check your damage and your bleed damage before and after, and compare the increase as a ratio.

Oh ok, I gotcha. So more base weapon damage is bigger bleed and increased damage with ailments and increased damage over time scales bleed right?

[Arngrim]

Originally posted by Tenzek:

Read what I actually typed. You clearly did not. Spot the difference between what you assumed I said and what I actually said.

He might have reacted to this part
"If you use "increased meleee physical" then it will increase the base damage of your weapon, making the bleed bigger, but it will not also scale the bleed."
Since those type of modifiers doesnt work on bleed anymore, even from a base damage perspective sadly.


For op.

These are the only mods that give my bleed gladiator more bleed damage that I remember.
%Generic Damage
% Generic Physical Damage
%Damage With Ailments
%Bleeding Damage
%Damage Over Time
Flat # Physical Damage

Modifying the base damage with % weapon/attack damage or something like %physical damage with swords does not work, however most nodes in the tree have ailment damage aswell so that won't matter most of the time.

[mad at video games]

Originally posted by Andors:

Originally posted by Tenzek:

Read what I actually typed. You clearly did not. Spot the difference between what you assumed I said and what I actually said.

He might have reacted to this part
"If you use "increased meleee physical" then it will increase the base damage of your weapon, making the bleed bigger, but it will not also scale the bleed."
Since those type of modifiers doesnt work on bleed anymore, even from a base damage perspective sadly.


For op.

These are the only mods that give my bleed gladiator more bleed damage that I remember.
%Generic Damage
% Generic Physical Damage
%Damage With Ailments
%Bleeding Damage
%Damage Over Time
Flat # Physical Damage

Modifying the base damage with % weapon/attack damage or something like %physical damage with swords does not work, however most nodes in the tree have ailment damage aswell so that won't matter most of the time.

Oh I gotcha, so , a node like "increased phys with bows" won't do anything right?

[Arngrim]

Not if it only had that, but pretty much all of them have the same increase to ailments too (wich increases bleed damage)

[mad at video games]

Originally posted by Andors:

Not if it only had that, but pretty much all of them have the same increase to ailments too (wich increases bleed damage)

Right, most phys damage with bows nodes also has the increased Dmg with ailments. Can't remember if it was like that pre 3.0

[Arngrim]

It came with the new ailment system in 3.0

[Tenzek]

Originally posted by rangerDanger:

Oh ok, I gotcha. So more base weapon damage is bigger bleed and increased damage with ailments and increased damage over time scales bleed right?

Bleed has the following types: Bleeding (Ailment), Physical, DoT. Anything that scales those types specifically scales it directly. Conditional physical damage won't scale it directly, unless its conditions fall within those other types.

For example, melee physical would require it to also have the type "melee," which it does not. However, it it says physical from ailments, then that would fit the conditions.

Increasing the physical damage that it is based on will also increase it indirectly.

[Arngrim]

Originally posted by Tenzek:

Originally posted by rangerDanger:

Oh ok, I gotcha. So more base weapon damage is bigger bleed and increased damage with ailments and increased damage over time scales bleed right?

Bleed has the following types: Bleeding (Ailment), Physical, DoT. Anything that scales those types specifically scales it directly. Conditional physical damage won't scale it directly, unless its conditions fall within those other types.

For example, melee physical would require it to also have the type "melee," which it does not. However, it it says physical from ailments, then that would fit the conditions.

Increasing the physical damage that it is based on will also increase it indirectly.

Not sure if it´s this you mean with the last part, but no matter how hard I try equipping jewels with "increaased physical damage with swords" it makes no difference in my bleed damage. (this is new in 3.0 because the same character did get more damage from them before)

[Tenzek]

Oh, it is probably worth mentioning that you can also get bleed duration or a combination bleed damage and % bleed chance bonuses on jewels, but these should be absolutely atthe bottom of the priority list.