does anyone have any definitive answer on how far shot ascendancy + point blank interacts?

[neglected hamster]

I googled it and most answers are varied, can't trust none of them.

After consulting the poe wiki pages on far shot and point blank, I would say that point blank retains the 50% more damage at close range because far shot doesn't have any negative attributes. However, at range your arrows would do only 20% less damage as opposed to 50% less damage because of the far shot 30% more dmg. I mean, this makes sense, but there's no wiki entry nor does anyone seem to know for sure...

[Arngrim]

rangerDanger původně napsal:

Andors původně napsal:

As far as I know more multipliers are multiplicative so 150% damage at start and 65% damage at max range with both abilities combined.

Edit: cecked the wiki and it says they are multiplicative too.
So the damage would be 1 x 1.5 at start and 1.3 x 0.5 at end.

Ah, so technically speaking far shot + point blank would actually make you have more damage at range than point blank alone. You had probably the most clear and to the point answer, I hope you're right because what you say makes sense lol. I was planning to drop point blank altogether but without it my build would be an incoherent mess without any synergy.

Also, since far shot is affected by how far the arrow travels, at medium range arrows would probably do like 1.15 x 0.25 or something like that right? (0.25 because of damage falloff from point blank)

Well at max range you would have 65% of your normal damage instead of 50% of your normal damage, so in my opinion far shot combined with point blank isnt really worth it compared to only point blank or only far shot.

[Eskidead]

This is why I hate games with vague skill descriptions.

No one can agree on the interpretation.

[The_Driver]

rangerDanger původně napsal:

Yup, exactly. I'm mostly worried about the deadeye ascendancy far shot because I really want that extra arrow lol.

What's there to worry about?

Far Shot původně napsal:

Projectile Attacks gain damage as they travel farther, dealing up to 30% more Damage to targets

And

Scions Deadeye Node původně napsal:

Projectiles gain Damage as they travel further, dealing up to 50% increased Damage to targets

There's no direct drawback in those, if you don't see any negatives about upping the damage (hint: reflect). Just keep in mind that they work differently due to more/increased, although they should even stack, if my logic serves me right.

The "drawback" is only on Point Blank. Far Shot and the Scions version of it just don't gain as much or nothing if you're too close.

[Arngrim]

The easiest way for me to decide would be to load up my potential build with some gear in path of building, then trying different projectile ranges to see what my damage would look like.

[The_Driver]

Andors původně napsal:

The easiest way for me to decide would be to load up my potential build with some gear in path of building, then trying different projectile ranges to see what my damage would look like.

Does that even work? I'm not getting different values for damage when I do 10 and 100 range respectively without Point Blank, it only starts affecting it when I add PB, plus the stat on the scion deadeye asc is red, which if I interpret it correctly means it's not supported (edit: by PoB).

[Arngrim]

The point blank keystone and the deadeye farshot works in PoB, no idea

The_Driver původně napsal:

Andors původně napsal:

The easiest way for me to decide would be to load up my potential build with some gear in path of building, then trying different projectile ranges to see what my damage would look like.

Does that even work? I'm not getting different values for damage when I do 10 and 100 range respectively without Point Blank, it only starts affecting it when I add PB, plus the stat on the scion deadeye asc is red, which if I interpret it correctly means it's not supported (edit: by PoB).

I dont know what skills currently work, I have only used it with point blank so far and that works.

[The_Driver]

Andors původně napsal:

The point blank keystone and the deadeye farshot works in PoB, no idea

The_Driver původně napsal:

Does that even work? I'm not getting different values for damage when I do 10 and 100 range respectively without Point Blank, it only starts affecting it when I add PB, plus the stat on the scion deadeye asc is red, which if I interpret it correctly means it's not supported (edit: by PoB).

I dont know what skills currently work, I have only used it with point blank so far and that works.

https://imgur.com/a/1uPmj
Tried it with a very basic setup, just TS+PB in a Deaths Opus - got no idea if this works, never exported: https://pastebin.com/AmH6kAsC - Deallocating the Point Blank passive means no more changes by switching proj distance for me

[Sugar Show]

Far shot+Point black = Genious

[neglected hamster]

Andors původně napsal:

rangerDanger původně napsal:

Actually, if they're both multiplicative, wouldn't that mean my initial guess was right? 20%



Wait a min tho, if both far shot and point blank are multiplicative wouldn't it just be 1 x 1.5 at start and 1 x 0.8 at the end?
It would be 1.3 x 0.5 at end if the far shot was increased damage not more damage, but the ascendancy far shot is more damage.

So that would mean I was right initially?

No, more multipliers multiplies all the increased damage (wich are additive). But two more multipliers together only multiplies.

Far shot is 1.3 and Point blank is 0.5 so 1.3 x 0.5 = 0.65

Let's say you have a bow that always do 100 damage, 20% increased phys damage, point blank and far shot.

The resulting damage at max range would be 100 x 1.2 first then 120 x 0.5 x 1.3 = 78

If Far shot was increased damage it would be 100 x 1.5 (20 + 30 increased) then 150 x 0.5 = 75

No nothing, that's literally what I said except you replaced the 1 with 120 because you're extra. The 1 was just representative of any value of damage that you do, increased damage and all. I already got my answer 10 posts ago fellas, thanks for all the help.

[Arngrim]

rangerDanger původně napsal:

Andors původně napsal:

No, more multipliers multiplies all the increased damage (wich are additive). But two more multipliers together only multiplies.

Far shot is 1.3 and Point blank is 0.5 so 1.3 x 0.5 = 0.65

Let's say you have a bow that always do 100 damage, 20% increased phys damage, point blank and far shot.

The resulting damage at max range would be 100 x 1.2 first then 120 x 0.5 x 1.3 = 78

If Far shot was increased damage it would be 100 x 1.5 (20 + 30 increased) then 150 x 0.5 = 75

No nothing, that's literally what I said except you replaced the 1 with 120 because you're extra. The 1 was just representative of any value of damage that you do, increased damage and all. I already got my answer 10 posts ago fellas, thanks for all the help.

Since everything I quoted from you in my last post was wrong I dont see how I'm "extra" but I'm glad you got your answer.

[neglected hamster]

Andors původně napsal:

rangerDanger původně napsal:

No nothing, that's literally what I said except you replaced the 1 with 120 because you're extra. The 1 was just representative of any value of damage that you do, increased damage and all. I already got my answer 10 posts ago fellas, thanks for all the help.

Since everything I quoted from you in my last post was wrong I dont see how I'm "extra" but I'm glad you got your answer.

Dude, the 1 stands for your damage, you just had to be a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ and add your stupid little 120 example. ♥♥♥♥ off. You're literally saying what I'm saying from the very start so please shut he ♥♥♥♥ up.

This has nothing to do with increased damage. This is about more damage from point blank and far shot, so please stop being a pretentious ♥♥♥♥ who thinks he's ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ Einstein and telling me I'm wrong when you're too retarded to read and comprehend what I'm saying. Because if you could read, you'd realize you're a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ idiot that's just echoing what I've said in the op every post you've made.

I'm just rereading over your comments and it just shows you don't even know what this is about. Deadeye ascendancy. Additional arrow. Far shot prerequisite.

[Arngrim]

If you´re going to act like some angsty kid I might aswell correct you again.

"Wait a min tho, if both far shot and point blank are multiplicative wouldn't it just be 1 x 1.5 at start and 1 x 0.8 at the end?"

No, 1 x 1,5 at the start and 1 x 0,65 at the end.

"It would be 1.3 x 0.5 at end if the far shot was increased damage not more damage, but the ascendancy far shot is more damage."

No it would be 1.3 x 0.5 at the end since More is multiplicative, resulting in a 65% multiplier, or 35% less.

[neglected hamster]

Andors původně napsal:

If you´re going to act like some angsty kid I might aswell correct you again.

"Wait a min tho, if both far shot and point blank are multiplicative wouldn't it just be 1 x 1.5 at start and 1 x 0.8 at the end?"

No, 1 x 1,5 at the start and 1 x 0,65 at the end.

"It would be 1.3 x 0.5 at end if the far shot was increased damage not more damage, but the ascendancy far shot is more damage."

No it would be 1.3 x 0.5 at the end since More is multiplicative, resulting in a 65% multiplier, or 35% less.

Nowhere in anywhere does it say the more damages are multiplicative to each other. They're multiplicative to your base damage with your increased damage. You're wrong. Also you're the only one saying what you're saying. Seriously someone else back him up because to me he is an idiot.

[Arngrim]

If you spent a few seconds searching the official forums or the wiki you would find your answer.
https://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Game_mechanics

"Percentage modifiers using the words "% increased" or "% reduced" stack additively with one another, while "% more" and "% less" modifiers stack multiplicatively"

A quick search on the official page shows many threads with the same answer, so don't act like an imbecille and do some checking yourself before calling people idiots.

[Drake]

rangerDanger původně napsal:

Andors původně napsal:

If you´re going to act like some angsty kid I might aswell correct you again.

"Wait a min tho, if both far shot and point blank are multiplicative wouldn't it just be 1 x 1.5 at start and 1 x 0.8 at the end?"

No, 1 x 1,5 at the start and 1 x 0,65 at the end.

"It would be 1.3 x 0.5 at end if the far shot was increased damage not more damage, but the ascendancy far shot is more damage."

No it would be 1.3 x 0.5 at the end since More is multiplicative, resulting in a 65% multiplier, or 35% less.

Nowhere in anywhere does it say the more damages are multiplicative to each other. They're multiplicative to your base damage with your increased damage. You're wrong. Also you're the only one saying what you're saying. Seriously someone else back him up because to me he is an idiot.

In case you skipped school maths. Multiplication doesn't have any order. A * (B * C) = (A * B) * C = (A * C) * B = A * B * C = A *C * B etc. You can permute anything.

So the damage formula being (FLAT DAMAGE * (%increased1+increased2+..+%increasedN)) * more1 * more2 *... moreN.

If we consider X as the sum of increased damage, you get : (Flat*X) * far shot * point blank.
You can then multiplier all the More by themselves, so 1.3 * 0.5, to get the global More multiplier.

Now, if you don't trust me about the formula, there is a topic on the official forum where you can ask technical questions (I think the dev monitoring it is Mark_GGG), he will give you the formula, which is goign to be the same one he gave to the ones that made the wiki, with the exact same formula posted there, where I got it.