♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ YUAN SHAO!

[Smugass Braixen-Chan]

I was actually doing well, and even beat the guy who wants to duel you. (Hau Xiong)

Then Yuan Shao just ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ died for the 5th time.

It's never even to anybody important, it's always some random generic officer with a goofy helmet.

And no, it isn't the Moral Bar, because I was actually able to drag it back to the middle.

I get that the whole point of these games is to carry the entire ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ army on your back.

But this level of baby-sitting, where my "allies" immediately die within seconds (Not hyperbole, I can see from the replays that they will have full or half health, then it will suddenly deplete and they'll be wiped out) if I'm not standing right next to them and acting as their body-guard, is just not fun.

[Gravious]

Originally posted by Smugass Braixen-Chan:

I was actually doing well, and even beat the guy who wants to duel you. (Hau Xiong)

Then Yuan Shao just ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ died for the 5th time.

It's never even to anybody important, it's always some random generic officer with a goofy helmet.

And no, it isn't the Moral Bar, because I was actually able to drag it back to the middle.

I get that the whole point of these games is to carry the entire ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ army on your back.

But this level of baby-sitting, where my "allies" immediately die within seconds (Not hyperbole, I can see from the replays that they will have full or half health, then it will suddenly deplete and they'll be wiped out) if I'm not standing right next to them and acting as their body-guard, is just not fun.

It sounds as if you must learn to be Swift as the wind, and quick as lightning, to walk upon the battlefield as if on wings, to swiftly defeat any foe before you instead of humoring them.

In other words.

You need to git gut.

[First Mate]

I would agree about carrying the entire army on your back for DW 6 to 9, but my experience in the demo you just need to put in the work near the start and set them up for the rest of the battle, they will push by themselves if their morale and courage is ok.

I played the demo 3 times on normal and didn't run into the problem, I will give hero a few goes to see if there is any difference.

[Adzi]

Hero has similar mechanics... although, the point there is less about allied officers being weaker, and more about them losing faster if they are in a losing fight (and maybe also winning faster, if they are in a winning battle?)

A certain thing to consider is that, even if an allied officer is in a winning fight, they might still end up with their HP reduced to zero (which might cause the fight to become a losing one for the rest). This also works in the other direction. The system in general seems to actually take many things into account. I've even had cases when the marker for a battle was switching between blue and red for a while.

[First Mate]

Originally posted by Adzi:

Hero has similar mechanics... although, the point there is less about allied officers being weaker, and more about them losing faster if they are in a losing fight (and maybe also winning faster, if they are in a winning battle?)

A certain thing to consider is that, even if an allied officer is in a winning fight, they might still end up with their HP reduced to zero (which might cause the fight to become a losing one for the rest). This also works in the other direction. The system in general seems to actually take many things into account. I've even had cases when the marker for a battle was switching between blue and red for a while.

Interesting, I would be curious to see all the number changes between difficulties. Do ally officers get stronger or just enemies? Whoever is winning does that mean the snowball is harder on higher difficulties? You might be right where fighting enemy officers take longer which means its easier for the enemy to snowball quicker.

[Adzi]

Frankly... I'm not sure if killing officers takes much longer on Hero difficulty than Wayfarer, at least HP-wise.

The vastly overhauled combat system of this game makes me much less bored of wailing on enemy officers

[Smugass Braixen-Chan]

Originally posted by Gravious:

Originally posted by Smugass Braixen-Chan:

I was actually doing well, and even beat the guy who wants to duel you. (Hau Xiong)

Then Yuan Shao just ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ died for the 5th time.

It's never even to anybody important, it's always some random generic officer with a goofy helmet.

And no, it isn't the Moral Bar, because I was actually able to drag it back to the middle.

I get that the whole point of these games is to carry the entire ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ army on your back.

But this level of baby-sitting, where my "allies" immediately die within seconds (Not hyperbole, I can see from the replays that they will have full or half health, then it will suddenly deplete and they'll be wiped out) if I'm not standing right next to them and acting as their body-guard, is just not fun.

It sounds as if you must learn to be Swift as the wind, and quick as lightning, to walk upon the battlefield as if on wings, to swiftly defeat any foe before you instead of humoring them.

In other words.

You need to git gut.

"Blah blah blah"

Typical Fansheep defending bad game design by bleating "git gud git gud"

[Smugass Braixen-Chan]

Originally posted by First Mate:

I would agree about carrying the entire army on your back for DW 6 to 9, but my experience in the demo you just need to put in the work near the start and set them up for the rest of the battle, they will push by themselves if their morale and courage is ok.

I played the demo 3 times on normal and didn't run into the problem, I will give hero a few goes to see if there is any difference.

So it's not scripted? Seems like the morale bar is programmed to tank at the beginning, so that the player can swoop in and save the day. And everybody is like "Wooaaaah! Is dis guy even human?!?!" But that just makes the babysitting even worse.

If I'm missing something, it's not explained very well.

Is Morale a DW8 or DW9 thing? The only other DW game I've played extensively is DW7, where this isn't really a mechanic. In DW7, I can get a message saying an officer is in trouble and not even really worry about it, because it would take ages for them to actually die. Only time I lost due to an officer dying, in that game, it was literally an escort mission. And even then, it was only because he got whittled down over the course of the battle.

[First Mate]

Originally posted by Smugass Braixen-Chan:

So it's not scripted? Seems like the morale bar is programmed to tank at the beginning, so that the player can swoop in and save the day. And everybody is like "Wooaaaah! Is dis guy even human?!?!" But that just makes the babysitting even worse.

If I'm missing something, it's not explained very well.

Is Morale a DW8 or DW9 thing? The only other DW game I've played extensively is DW7, where this isn't really a mechanic. In DW7, I can get a message saying an officer is in trouble and not even really worry about it, because it would take ages for them to actually die. Only time I lost due to an officer dying, in that game, it was literally an escort mission. And even then, it was only because he got whittled down over the course of the battle.

Well its not an auto battler so you are expected to contribute in some way to make your forces win. I know from playing alot of 8 that even when the morale bar is full it doesn't even matter.
Personally the events that happen such as morale shocks and 'surprise' reinforcements give the map flavour and opens options. Surely it would be boring to load in just afk and win, but you can get the morale high enough near the start that even when something happens they are still able to conquer the random event and push bases and snowball it anyway.

[StackzGaming]

Originally posted by Smugass Braixen-Chan:

Originally posted by First Mate:

I would agree about carrying the entire army on your back for DW 6 to 9, but my experience in the demo you just need to put in the work near the start and set them up for the rest of the battle, they will push by themselves if their morale and courage is ok.

I played the demo 3 times on normal and didn't run into the problem, I will give hero a few goes to see if there is any difference.

So it's not scripted? Seems like the morale bar is programmed to tank at the beginning, so that the player can swoop in and save the day. And everybody is like "Wooaaaah! Is dis guy even human?!?!" But that just makes the babysitting even worse.

If I'm missing something, it's not explained very well.

Is Morale a DW8 or DW9 thing? The only other DW game I've played extensively is DW7, where this isn't really a mechanic. In DW7, I can get a message saying an officer is in trouble and not even really worry about it, because it would take ages for them to actually die. Only time I lost due to an officer dying, in that game, it was literally an escort mission. And even then, it was only because he got whittled down over the course of the battle.

Morale has been there since as far back as AT LEAST DW3. Can't remember DW2 well...but it probably did. DW1 wasn't Musou so it didn't.

The whole concept of "Red vs. Blue" arguably was made popular by Dynasty Warriors.

[Chortles]

Originally posted by Smugass Braixen-Chan:

The only other DW game I've played extensively is DW7, where this isn't really a mechanic.

That explains everything... this game is much more like the earliest games in the importance of Morale, which was part of what could make Dynasty Warriors 3 and 4 (particularly playing against the Nanman, because that too had scripted Morale drop events).

That said, this specific morale drop is actually able to be cheesed... if you can defeat Hua Xiong quickly enough. I haven't yet been able to get his duel challenge before Bao Zhong dies, which seems to automatically trigger the rest of the chain and thus the Morale drop, however defeating him quickly meant that the Morale rise occurred soon enough that I was able to hightail it to Sun Jian and rescue him, then cross the map again for Liu Bei.

[Adzi]

Indeed! This is actually a fair point which shows the richness of the "decision space" in this demo - if not the entire game. You are free to try any approach; however it ends will depend on your insight and skill. If you decide to just Rush B, do it and see what happens. As long as you or your commander won't die, it's a win.

Capture bases? Help winning officers win faster? Save the losing ones? Preemptively destroy enemy units? Your call, Wanderer.

[Megiddo]

Originally posted by Adzi:

Indeed! This is actually a fair point which shows the richness of the "decision space" in this demo - if not the entire game. You are free to try any approach; however it ends will depend on your insight and skill. If you decide to just Rush B, do it and see what happens. As long as you or your commander won't die, it's a win.

Capture bases? Help winning officers win faster? Save the losing ones? Preemptively destroy enemy units? Your call, Wanderer.

Most optimal to conserve morale is to start with Sun Shang Xiang, Which allows you to quickly defeat the ambush threatening Sun Jian before you have to fly and save the next commander usually Yuan Shao or Liu Bei.

[Chortles]

From what I've seen base captures > officer KOs in Morale benefits -- I've seen one strategy to pick Guan Yu and go all-in, including on base captures, and trusting that the Morale gains thereof will help Sun Jian stay afloat until you can reach him, while passing by Yuan Shao, Cao Cao, and other generals on the way to grant them heals. Also, apparently high-Courage enemy officers are, in return for being tougher (due to more Fortitude), more beneficial to take out in terms of either Morale or how your allies will fare. (For example, if you do try to save Sun Jian this would make Xu Rong the priority target.)

[Megiddo]

Originally posted by Chortles:

From what I've seen base captures > officer KOs in Morale benefits -- I've seen one strategy to pick Guan Yu and go all-in, including on base captures, and trusting that the Morale gains thereof will help Sun Jian stay afloat until you can reach him, while passing by Yuan Shao, Cao Cao, and other generals on the way to grant them heals. Also, apparently high-Courage enemy officers are, in return for being tougher (due to more Fortitude), more beneficial to take out in terms of either Morale or how your allies will fare. (For example, if you do try to save Sun Jian this would make Xu Rong the priority target.)

Interesting, with how tight some of the fights been, ive never bothered to try that out.

[Chortles]

MILD SPOILER: Hulao Gate is far more generous in this regard, and it can be played 'normally'.