Why I'm (probably) not buying this game

[B o f u]

I'm a longtime Dynasty Warriors fan, through thick and thin, since the DW3 days (and yes, I played DW2 as well). This series was a formative part of my childhood as well as my college days, and in fact, I even met the woman who became my wife over a mutual love for the series. (For the record, she loved Xiao Qiao, and I was a Zhou Yu main - the former part of that might come into play later in the post). I stuck with the series, albeit with complaints, when DW6 cut a significant portion of the cast and reduced moveset variety. I stuck with the series even through DW9, finding some things to appreciate even though the game was deeply flawed. I was there at the highs as well as the lows.

There's a lot that looks interesting here. I do appreciate that, instead of forcing the player to follow a single story that would've undoubtedly followed just Liu Bei had they gone the single story route, the developers made it so that you can choose to join other factions. I also like a lot of the character redesigns. Dong Zhuo and Zhang Jiao look like much more serious characters than before, and the young Guan Yu and Zhang Fei designs are particularly interesting. The gameplay looks interesting, particularly the quest sAnd if the rumors are true and that there may be multiple endings for each force, that would be icing on the cake.

But there are a few reasons why I'm not leaning toward buying this game right now, as a longtime fan of the series.

Cut characters. Some of this makes sort of sense given the time frame of the series - if the game is focusing on the time period from the Yellow Turban Rebellion to the Battle of Chibi, which means that there's no feasible way to include characters like Meng Huo, Jiang Wei, Ma Chao, Ding Feng, Zhu Ran, Sima Yi, or quite a few others.

But characters who don't have any real role in the story of the Three Kingdoms aren't the only ones who've been cut. All of the following are ones who were active, either in history or folklore (the latter of which is just as important, please be quiet all of you "bruh they didn't fight in any battles" people), during the time period but are completely absent from the game:

• Cao Ren - while his most famous moments take place after Chibi, the fact remains that he was integral to Cao Cao's early campaigns, including Yan Province, Xu Province, the early fights against Liu Bei, and the fight against Zhang Xiu. This is perhaps the most puzzling roster cut. He's either been demoted to generic or is absent altogether.
  
• Cao Pi - although most of his role takes place after Chibi, there is still a bit that he does before, such as participating in the campaign against the Yuan family. Even more oddly, his wife is in the game and he's not? I think someone reported that he's a generic officer in this game, which is mind-boggling.
  
• Da Qiao - Miss me with the "I don't mind if the female characters get cut" bad faith arguments here. If the game is going to tell a deeply personal story about Sun Ce, which the game promotional materials claim to do, it can't do so while also completely glossing over his marriage. The time frame also works perfectly for both her and her sister. It's bizarre that she gets cut while Yueying, who is only around for a tiny little snippet at the end of the story and doesn't even have a role in the novel, doesn't.
  
• Xiao Qiao - Same as Da Qiao, except perhaps even more egregious given that her husband is one of the few playable officers. And given that one of the reasons in the novel that Zhou Yu advised Sun Quan to fight Cao Cao at Chibi was a rumor that Cao Cao wanted to abduct Xiao Qiao, it just plain makes sense to include her from that angle alone.
  
• Lu Lingqi - Honestly, it's just bizarre that they'd go through the effort of introducing Lu Lingqi only to pretend she doesn't exist, but I suppose that's better than the silly headcanon Koei invented that she somehow stayed under the protection of Cao Cao after her father died.
  
• Dong Bai - Yeah, I know, but she added something unique to the cast. Even if her role was tiny, she could have easily been pumped up into an adversarial role with the protagonist. It'

Limited movesets. This is less of an issue given the low number of playable characters, but come on. There's no reason to take away Sun Ce's tonfas or Zhang He's claws again. I don't expect every character to have truly unique weapons, but don't mess with the iconic ones, okay?

She's way too young for that. Not gonna lie, it's always bothered me that Koei has this weird tendency of having Sun Shangxiang show up for certain battles when she would have been an infant. Minor gripe, to be honest.

This is starting to turn into a rant, and my point is not to say that this game isn't worth buying, but what I am saying is this: I won't buy it until I know whether or not it's worth my time. It's possible that there are some tricks up Koei's sleeves and that there'll be some DLC that addresses these gripes, too. But buying every WO, SW, and DW game has gotten me burned enough times that I'm not convinced yet, and I'm going to reserve my judgment.

[Chortles]

Re: Cao Ren and Cao Pi: the producer has claimed that no one is getting bumped back to generic NPC, so they're just gone (he has explicitly said so for Cao Pi).

[First Mate]

I totally see your PoV, there are definitely alot of bad when alot of people see this as a big step up, I keep saying that this entry is a 1 step forward and 2 steps back.
I thought I was the only person that thought Cao Ren was not used as much as he should have been, he played such a massive part in Cao Cao's battles, and yeah Sun Shangxiang is a funny one when she appears at Hulao Gate when she was probably not even born or a little kid at the time.
The roster is bloated and had to receive a cut down in the roster, if they were going to do it I think characters near the Jin era was a good place to cut it down due to being a less popular period. Sure people might have their favourite character or some favourite characters there but... You know.

I am hoping for more news over the next couple months, it would have to be pretty bad honestly for me to be deterred as I have been pretty starved since DW9 was shockingly bad. To me this is just a DW7 before the DW8, or a better way to be looking at it is, it is not a mainline title.
Anyway, as soon as I get my controller fixed ill be playing DW3-5 on my emulator.

[Chortles]

Originally posted by First Mate:

The roster is bloated and had to receive a cut down in the roster, if they were going to do it I think characters near the Jin era was a good place to cut it down due to being a less popular period. Sure people might have their favourite character or some favourite characters there but... You know.

The producer has stated that he had nothing to do with Jin (because he wasn't on DW7 at all), has hinted that for him the period up to Wuzhang Plains is the story (complete with citing the Eiji Yoshikawa version of the story ending with Zhuge Liang's death), and has outright said that DW7 isn't the kind of game he would make... so if this game is successful enough for him to do a sequel I wouldn't count on Jin returning.

Originally posted by First Mate:

I am hoping for more news over the next couple months, it would have to be pretty bad honestly for me to be deterred as I have been pretty starved since DW9 was shockingly bad. To me this is just a DW7 before the DW8, or a better way to be looking at it is, it is not a mainline title.

It's been revealed that the game only got the Origins subtitle this year, before which it was simply called Dynasty Warriors (2025). Make of that what you will...

[First Mate]

Im not a fan of anything past the battle of Fan Castle personally, so Jin not being a thing doesn't really bother me, as much as I like Ma Chao its a sacrifice im willing to make if it means other areas shine. If they do push it to Fan Castle in future entries, then yay but that is pushing it imo.

Perhaps intended to be a mainline title, I still think its the launching pad for something better in 2-3 years after this release.

[Vengeful Mosquito]

Pre ordering I cant wait