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As of the last comparison I made, our laser pick mines 1 unit of basic material 15% faster than the first pick in terraria. =-P Now unless they made it faster in the last patch, you can go and cowoberate this data and let me know but I spent a fair amount of time comparing and wanted it to be a slightly bit faster since our mining is a bit more geospatial.
[EDIT]
There are also 5+ picks upgradeable now overcharged 1 - exstended 1 overcharged 2 exstended 2 laserpick 2. Utilities track
Well, I think comparing the game to Terarria, even though it's the gold standard in this kind of 2D-crafting-adventure-platformer genre, is a bit of a low starting bar and a mistake. Terarria was, in many ways, the pioneer for these kinds of games. Or, at least, it was the first pioneer in the genre to be successful and widely known. Which means two things, of course:
1. They had no idea what they were doing, so couldn't know what was and wasn't a good idea.
2. No one else knew what the game could have been, so didn't know that it could be better.
Enter Starbound, which looked at the whole paradigm of manual mining and geoforming and decided to break out of 1-block-at-a-time and instead opt for larger grids. Now, I can understand why EoS isn't Starbound, and why Starbound decided to give such high-speed tools. EoS is about establishing a base upon a hostile alien world, Starbound is about exploration of multiple alien worlds. EoS's planet is a sprawling, mastercrafted... PLANET that you can spend days trying to traverse safely from one end to the other. Starbound's planets can be traversed between 15-45 minutes. EoS wants the player to discover hidden treasures and wonders and dangers. Starbound has procedurally generated things to find, and you don't HAVE to find any of it before deciding you want to move on.
It's just... they're two different games with different expectations for the players, I am aware of that, BUT (there's always a but) the resources and upgrade system are a bit daunting. There's so much to discover and learn and tinker with, but it feels like I'm constantly being punished and disuaded from doing ANY of it because of the cost of things and how slow it is to get what I need.
When starting out as a new player, I wanna try EVERYTHING because I know NOTHING. I don't know what my play style is going to be, and I'm not sure what works, what doesn't, or even how things work. My inventory IS limited, so I know that I can't be stupid and do eveything all the time, but again I have no idea what I wanna do or even what the different types of gear actually do, either. Nothing dangerous really comes after me, which I think is a bad design decision and one likely implemented because no one new knew how to do anything, and making a base and getting a crafting table up and running before the first night cycle is almost impossible before you know all NINETEEN steps. Because nothing dangerous comes after me, and I have no idea what I'm supposed to be doing because survival is trivial; ultimately the only obstacle between me and experimentation/enjoyment/discovery (which is what I think the point of the game is) is the mining.
I don't WANT an "overcharged" or "extended" laser pick when I inevitably get frustrated with the laser pick because I have no USE for it. I want a plasma gouger to quickly break up and scoop out enough basic resources to unlock all the tier 1 stuff and get a feel for what the game has in store for me until I run into a natural crafting barrier involving more advanced resources that are more complicated than dirt. And when I find these more exotic/durable resources, and the diffuse nature of plasma gouger fails to break them up for whatever reason, THEN I break out the more finely tuned, focused-energy tools.
Does that-uhm, does that make sense? I hope I'm not being too harsh. =/
+
adjacent background block system if real interesting can sometime be annoying with deep undergound rare ressource spot (dunno if there some yet because not tested the game far enough but may be some consumables able to make a background blocks breach, dynamite or else like special ammo or average/long cooldown for laser picks that allow to do so).
Moving Materials while crafting could probably be improved with some addititional/merged/resized(smaller) windows and/or tooltip infos (enhancement current LVL and required exp could for example benefit from craft window shcematic mouse over tooltip )
Also click the craft windows empty material box autopick(& pop up if multiple) from bag could be nice.
First feelings after one ('unlucky' missing some of the research schematic) caracter test to rank3. ( Hug & 5 reasons ;)
The background detonators are already in game ~.^
@TrollofReason You're not being harsh, and you make perfect sense to me. The only thing I'd pick on you a little bit for, is seeing collecting resources as separate steps. It's really just, mine everything. Literally, everything. Right up to end game, dirt, rock, mud, and clay, will all still be just as vital as they are the moment you spawn for the first time. I think part of the gap between understanding EoS for many players, has to do with mindset. In all of our genre-mates' games, you are trained and conditioned for everything valuable to be ores. You come into EoS with that mindset, you'll drive yourself nuts. In EoS you have to drop that notion and think "Wait, it's not ores I'm looking for, it's EVERYTHING around me."
I also am not sure if you've tried a new character since we patched on Wednesday, but we put in an optional extended tutorial to teach the workbench/base building/command node mechanics. We feel this will be an important clue to how important base building will be. Right now, it's not so much, because outside of crafting machines and stations, it isn't serving as much a purpose. In the final product, when there are roaming world bosses and dynamic events triggered by your actions as you play, that story changes. The world is going to be AWARE of what you're doing. Killing one boss might alert another to your presence, and the game can track you, even at home. This will be where turrets, shields, repair drones, attack drones, and more, will be critical to survival. (Your base WILL be repairable, as will the things inside it, but the broken state will stop things from functioning till repaired.)
I guess the main point I'm trying to make is that we don't want to blast the player right out of spawn, when you ARE trying to learn, trying to explore crafting menus, see what you might want to make, get a base started etc. We are adding back the low chance of hostile mob spawns at night, even at the starting area, but we have to balance this, and not trade it for a NEW kind of frustration, the kind where a player throws up their hands and quits because they can't do anything without being killed. Edge of Space is still missing some major features, such as wormholes and terraforming, that add whole new layers of things to do.
tl;dr: While the game feels slow at the start right now, it's still got a lot of growing to do, and balance is something we will be revisiting many times as we go :)
I second this. TrollofReason , despite the name, did put it very well. The main and first obstacle to overcome in EOS is the workbench and the mining. Since the wildlife is tame there is no instant feel of needing a shelter of sorts. So people start to explore and look around. Then they discover the various block types and start mining them. But its soo slow at 1 block at a time.
Both games i think make mining more enjoyable than EOS:
- Terraria had at least the smart cursor and hell alot of pickaxe increments to make it quicker
- Starbound even has a grid mining system, which seems quite enjoyable
So once the player figured out he / she is a masocist and dig out like 100 materials at a snails speed the player might continue to create the first base. And BAM workbench not working. I know now there is an optional tutorial on base building. But honestly i would prefer to put a intuitive and sublte system in letting the player learn it for themselve.
The npc housing in terraria feels a little like the quest for the workbenche here in EOS. But the main difference was in terraria you actually had a motivation to start base building. The wildlife around you is dangerous and the npcs help you and need a safe haven. Both of those motivations are very well lacking in EOS. Workbenches dont create a specific relationship to the player and dont feel like a "damsel in distress" and the planet isnt pushing the player in base building either.
I just hope there is a more fluid and intuitive system in the finalized polished product. Remember the best games are without tutorials altogether and giving the player sublte mechanics to let em learn things on their own naturally without any wiki / playthroughs.
Just look at the old metroids ( sure they never had base building ), but basically anything ingame is thought you via gameplay and NOT a shoddy tutorial.
TL:DR
Since the workbench issue is temporarily fixed with an awkward tutorial next step would be balancing the mining speeds and upgrade increments. For later purposes there should be a more intuitive and fluid system to understand base building and powering up without the need of a shoddy tutorial. Something like early start mobs which stick to craft benches and try to "suck" their energy out. So naturally the player would understand that their base would need actual walls for protection etc.
I try to make mining a bit more "fun" by making a game by itself out of it.I heat up 4 or 5 ,sometimes even more , tiles at once and try to match the heat level of them so they pop as fast after another as possible lol
Anyways i am confident that the middleground will be found with given time :)
- "Head hunter dungeon coordinate data" sometime/not always stack for some reason (annoying because the device is uncraftable even when you get enough longi/lat/ele). *
- "simulaneus action" / "too fast drag and drop" tend to make some tooltip freeze/persist until you drag something else.
- multiple chest openable at the same time could be a nice idea.
- When moving a material stack over another stack of the same material it should fill the biggest stack auto, without the need of manual value input and manual drag and drop (also notice sometime/not always stack are n-1 max value instead of *=max [?!?] ) *
- when using craftstation to craft stackable things "a max stack amount" should be shown in the info/tooltips to help with managing/ preplan the caracter inventory
- reduce blank space from "GUI Windows" to make them smaller and get a better visibility while they are open. (they take a lot of space on the screen actually imo)
Keep it up ;) cheers.
EDIT: * hh data + drag and drop (stack properly if right clicking to transfer between bag and container, don't work properly when drag and drop top of each others, the max n-1 also occur only with drag and drop)
Ok, after playing both games again I realized...
The starting pikeaxe (the cooper one) in terraria is faster than the laser. In terraria it takes 2 hits to break a block of dirt (less than 1 sec I think), in EoS it takes a little more like 3-4 hits of pikeaxe in terraria and sometimes even more (dont know why, but it feels that way, some blocks feels harder to break)
But the most frustrating is walls. It take too long to break only 1 block of dirt. Yeah in terraria is slow but at least in terraria you take out like 4 blocks of wall dirt.
I will play the game and try to get a better laser to see how it perform
What you mean by some blocks are harder to break? Is it 1:Some dirt tiles take longer to brake than other dirt tiles or 2: aluminum tiles take longer to brake than dirt tiles.?
If 1, then i can´t confirm this. If 2, then i think that is totally fine and all it needs is finding the balance to make it feel right. Sure for now we have to deal with it but maybe sooner than we might think can we look back at this with a smile on our faces and say for example
" Remember that time ? When EoS mining was so slow?"
I think people have to remember that to just GIVE all the resources so easily, where you're mining instantly and there's no effort needed anymore, would ruin the game. People tend to want everything instantly, but ours is really not that slow. It's just the way people perceive it after playing other games in the genre. For a starter tool, ours is rather efficient, and has very long range. The overcharged pick introduces multi-tile mining, and I couldn't even count the time when trying to test for how long it took to mine 5 of a material in order to answer a concern about science data being a grind. That's only the tier 2 pick, and there are numerous tiers of pick above that. Perception also comes into play in that people expect Edge of Space to BE Starbound or Terraria, they boot up the game with the mechanics for a different game in mind, and when ours is different, it's seen as a failure on our part.
You don't have to choose what to updgrade, and then not gain the rest, you can 100% unlock every branch. The item description on the crafting menu does tell you how much XP per data is given. Ores are part of crafting, yes, but no more so or less so than dirt, mob drops, loot drops, and other needed materials. There is never a useless material in Edge of Space. Even dirt and mud are critical right up to end game. Regarding the armor, that is exactly what will happen later on, and also you can mix and match and wear any armor you want, in any combination you choose.
Mining is not the only way to get them, you gain them from crafting and killing things too :)