Pacifist Achievement - Ticking Off Possible Ruin Triggers

[Shepard-Commander]

Hello there.

I've started this game recently and fell madly in love with it, flaws and all.

After realizing the many mistakes on my first playthrough towards the fulfillment of that goal - and noticing the subtle change in dialogue at the end(s) after beating NG+ (and even on the post-credits scene dialogue as well), I'm certain the game acknowledged my fully Pacifist Run but the achievement locked up somewhere along Bug Savefile County, possibly between Shanghai and Singapore.

I got Factory Zero, Doctorate and Foxiest on said NG+, and I planned to get Legend on a fully-lethal/abandon-all-hope playthrough just to see what the game throws at me, considering Mankind Divided didn't give a ♥♥♥♥ about choices made on HR.

Sadly that will have to be postponed until getting Paci first. And I left some sidequests unresolved in order to save time - notoriously, I carried a Missing Link sidequest with me on my way to Panchaea. Plus, I also got "The Fall" and "Kevorkian Complex" on this NG+ and then reloaded the file, which could have tagged me as a hypocrite but the game allowed me to feel all self-righteous about it, judging by the ending dialogue(s).

So I thought that it might be useful to gather up some data among the interested to try and pinpoint the most likely situations where the game bugs (or 4D-chesses you) out of this achievement. The purpose of this post is to save as much time as possible if dealt with an achievement-locking trigger scenario, including the inspection of all the wikis in order to avoid that, which is a tedium and frankly wasted time.
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So far by my own experience:
- Killing any enemy in the prologue (maximum trolling).
- Hacking Turrets/Bots against enemies.
- Destroying Turrets/Bots with enemies nearby.
- Using any stun method against key NPCs that will die if not otherwise engaged.
Here there are two that will 100% die if stealthily engaged: the thug guarding BT's apartment and the "Shanghai Snitcher(s)" near the strip club on your second visit there.
- Red Mines, Grenades, Exploding Barrels, either shot by the player or by enemies.
- Enemies falling off floors or on water -electrified or otherwise- after a takedown.


Rumored to lock you out of Pacifist, all of them needing proof:
- Not saving people that can be saved (Hostages, Malik, Sandoval).
- Giving a lethal dose of morphine to anybody.
- Going back to a previously "pacified" place repopulated with enemies.
- Not getting "All of the Above" achievement in The Missing Link.
- Leaving sidequest flags/events unfinished.

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I'm certain I'm missing some other stuff, but will gladly edit with any information provided for those players that got it and might have some useful insights for future players (i.e.: loading from the menu instead of quick-loading, etc).

This game is indeed a great one, yet the save system has plenty of room of ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ things up without the player noticing when going to hunt this and other achievements. I've checked other threads but haven't found one with a full list, so there's that.

Thanks for reading.
[H]ave a good one.

[Lord Of Dorkness]

A few things I recall from my own Pacifist run:

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There's a subtle and infuriating oversight where NPCs only have physics enabled within a certain radius of Jensen.

Normally this is perfectly fine and helps save on processing... but sometimes the rag-dolls twitch when they hit that radius after having been outside it.

And~ if you've stuffed somebody into a vent or other tiny area where it normally makes perfect sense to hide somebody unconscious... That twitch can fling them so hard against the wall, that they basically kill themselves. Except YOU knocked them out, so it gets credited as if you killed them.

Honestly, you'd never, ever know it happens, except for Pacifist. But it's something I avoided when I got the achievement myself, and it seemed to do the trick. Just leave ZZZ NPCs in larger rooms, try to avoid giant piles of them, and it worked fine for me at least.

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Vary rarely, the tranq rifle kills people. No idea if its another physics thing, or some 'fun' realism, but always, always check for that little ZZZ/Skull every time you use it.

If I recall correctly it's mostly the instant head-shots that does it, but can't quite recall details.

...

Oh, and saving a full laser rifle for the last boss, means you can kill her without having to risk fighting/hurting the zombies and node-girls at all. Makes that fight MUCH easier if you're going for a Pacifist run. They all just keel over unconscious when she does, though admittedly it's been years since I did that so might be miss-recalling something.

Hope that helps.

[Vassago Rain]

You can't do it on new game+.

[Shepard-Commander]

Originally posted by Vassago Rain:

You can't do it on new game+.

I've seen your comments over the other threads, so I'm assuming you speak from experience. Is this confirmed?

[Vassago Rain]

Originally posted by HRZGraph:

Originally posted by Vassago Rain:

You can't do it on new game+.

I've seen your comments over the other threads, so I'm assuming you speak from experience. Is this confirmed?

The game keeps track of a bunch of triggers and they're not properly cleared for new game+. If you want the achievement, don't bother fighting anyone, ever.

Being responsible for any death, no matter how you did it, voids the achievement.

[Shepard-Commander]

I guess it's settled for now and it makes sense; started a clean New Game to see if that would fix the issue. Thank you.

[PlayboyMoney]

Can Foxiest of Hounds be done on NG+? For pacifist, the hardest part is the robot attacking Malik, when it blows up it kills people around it, kill it fast while others are as far away as possible.

[Shepard-Commander]

Originally posted by PlayboyMoney:

Can Foxiest of Hounds be done on NG+? For pacifist, the hardest part is the robot attacking Malik, when it blows up it kills people around it, kill it fast while others are as far away as possible.

I got Foxiest on NG+ -along with Factory Zero- so I can confirm it can be done.
You can get Ghost XP Bonus on Malik's part if you don't save her.

Also, I got Pacifist on a fresh New Game as Vassago Rain suggested.

Took the left path, gassed down both heavies, stunned the Boxguard twice and moved the bodies before EMPing it, leaving the snipers for last. This got me Smooth Operator XP Bonus.

After Malik went away, checked every guard and only one -on the first floor by the right side- was dead, which I've read in other places that it's always dead no matter what you do.

I'm going through my fourth -and hopefully last- playthrough to get Legend, 100% it and move on with my life. What an addictive damn game.

[Urizen]

Ghosting every level is a good idea.

Dont ever use the tranq gun. If you absolutely have no other way forward use the stun gun.

Max out cloaking and stock up on all the protien bars and the big jars.

Do not kill robots.

Basically avoid everyone and complete objectives. Except for the boss fight obviously.