Half-baked story.

[lucidique]

Just finished the game. The overall experience was solid, but i have to say that the story was an incredible letdown.

Spoiler alert for people that have yet to finish the game i guess :

Early on, the game sets up some really cool hooks that ends up never really delivering. Both Adam's relationship with Megan and the way he has to deal with her Mother, post-mortem introduced the idea that this would be an emotionally heavy sub-plot. It ends up being ♥♥♥♥♥♥ nothing. You rescue her and then, nothing at all. I am mesmerized. She tough he was dead, he has not seen her in six months. She was the love of his life. No dialogue at all. Crazy.

You are led to believe early on that Sarif might be doing things behind your back, hell, potentially might end up being the main antagonist. The end-game dialogues with this major story character are part of a side mission that you can walk right by if you are not careful. His entire end game delivery is a side thing. Weak.

And don't get me started on what ends up being the main antagonist. So memorable i can't remember her name.

And it's over so fast. The way they feed you the narrative, by the time you reach Pancea, you get the feeling that you are around maybe one third of the game done.

I don't know what to say. Neat gameplay, but just poorly paced, filled-with-holes storytelling. Was going to pick up mankind divided. Might skip it now. Bummer.

[Vassago Rain]

I guess you don't pay much attention.

At the start of the game, before he gets augmented, Adam and Megan have not been a pair for at least half a year.

[lucidique]

Originally posted by Vassago Rain:

I guess you don't pay much attention.

At the start of the game, before he gets augmented, Adam and Megan have not been a pair for at least half a year.

That's it? That's your response to my entire post? They haven't been a couple for a year so i must not be paying attention derpy derp di derp!

Genius.

[Vassago Rain]

Yeah, pretty much. You got everything wrong, and didn't pay any attention.

ggclose.

There's about zero time spent on Adam's lovelife. He's got his head full of more important, immediate things, like losing all his limbs in a terrorist attack, trying to deal with being an aug, and so on.

[lucidique]

Originally posted by Vassago Rain:

Yeah, pretty much. You got everything wrong, and didn't pay any attention.

ggclose.

There's about zero time spent on Adam's lovelife. He's got his head full of more important, immediate things, like losing all his limbs in a terrorist attack, trying to deal with being an aug, and so on.

And you don't feel that a bit of closure might have been a good idea? Considering they made you run a post-mortem investigation for her mother?

[Jackkel Dragon]

I'm afraid I might have to agree that you fixated on the wrong parts of the game as being relevant. While those elements may have been good story material, the game wasn't about them. To go over some of the points mentioned:

1. Megan and Adam have been apart for some time at the start of the game, as noted in the prologue. Looking into Megan's research in the starting room and talking to Sarif about her reveal that she cares more about results and helping people than she cares about Adam, which is what led her to trick Adam into being a test subject for her proto-nanite research. By the time Adam meets her again, too much is going on to discuss anything with her, even if this was discovered.

2. Sarif's shady dealings are dealt with in a sidequest. If you confront him in Detroit 1 and read the emails he gives you, then you know exactly what he was doing behind Jensen's back (and unlock details about Adam's origins in the Detroit 2 sidequests). Even if you don't finish the sidequest, he's pretty open about what he is overall: he wants everyone to believe in a dream of transhumanism, even if he has to trick people into wanting it. This directly leads to his suggestion on Panchea to blame Humanity Front.

3. Zhao is a very weak character for a final boss fight, but she isn't the main antagonist of the game. Hugh Darrow and the Illuminati are. Zhao is just an Illuminatus wannabe and a rival to Sarif. The entire game is the Illuminati's conspiracy to control augmentations with the kill switch distributed by Bob Page and Tai Yong Medical, which happens to be co-opted by Darrow to be a grim "warning" of the dangers of augmentation. If anything, the climax of the game is the confrontation with Hugh Darrow, while the fight against Zhao and the Hyron Project is an obligation of the medium to have a "final battle".

It's important to pay attention to the little details in the Deus Ex games, if you aren't already aware of that from DX1 and IW. Only using the cutscenes and briefings as the story will only get you 30-60% of the story. For instance, Zhao is very poorly represented in the cutscenes, but if you read a lot of TYM emails then you get a much better idea of what she's like and why she is so obsessed with being part of the Illuminati. Being a series about global conspiracy, the truth is going to be buried, just like it is in-universe thanks to groups like the Illuminati and Majestic 12.

[God, owner of the Universe]

Originally posted by lucidique:

You rescue her and then, nothing at all. I am mesmerized. She tough he was dead, he has not seen her in six months. She was the love of his life. No dialogue at all. Crazy.

Was going to pick up mankind divided. Might skip it now. Bummer.

If you didn't like the quality/pacing of DX:HR's story, you're gonna have a really bad time with DX:MD, because it's basically a bit of playing detective with a sudden ending that resolves little.

About Megan and Adam not talking: The world is set on fire while they start talking, so obviously they only talk about the most immediately relevant stuff, and there are not further opportunities for them to talk before the game ends in the choose-one-of-these-almost-identical-movies o matic.

[lucidique]

Originally posted by Jackkel Dragon:

I'm afraid I might have to agree that you fixated on the wrong parts of the game as being relevant. While those elements may have been good story material, the game wasn't about them. To go over some of the points mentioned:

1. Megan and Adam have been apart for some time at the start of the game, as noted in the prologue. Looking into Megan's research in the starting room and talking to Sarif about her reveal that she cares more about results and helping people than she cares about Adam, which is what led her to trick Adam into being a test subject for her proto-nanite research. By the time Adam meets her again, too much is going on to discuss anything with her, even if this was discovered.

2. Sarif's shady dealings are dealt with in a sidequest. If you confront him in Detroit 1 and read the emails he gives you, then you know exactly what he was doing behind Jensen's back (and unlock details about Adam's origins in the Detroit 2 sidequests). Even if you don't finish the sidequest, he's pretty open about what he is overall: he wants everyone to believe in a dream of transhumanism, even if he has to trick people into wanting it. This directly leads to his suggestion on Panchea to blame Humanity Front.

3. Zhao is a very weak character for a final boss fight, but she isn't the main antagonist of the game. Hugh Darrow and the Illuminati are. Zhao is just an Illuminatus wannabe and a rival to Sarif. The entire game is the Illuminati's conspiracy to control augmentations with the kill switch distributed by Bob Page and Tai Yong Medical, which happens to be co-opted by Darrow to be a grim "warning" of the dangers of augmentation. If anything, the climax of the game is the confrontation with Hugh Darrow, while the fight against Zhao and the Hyron Project is an obligation of the medium to have a "final battle".

It's important to pay attention to the little details in the Deus Ex games, if you aren't already aware of that from DX1 and IW. Only using the cutscenes and briefings as the story will only get you 30-60% of the story. For instance, Zhao is very poorly represented in the cutscenes, but if you read a lot of TYM emails then you get a much better idea of what she's like and why she is so obsessed with being part of the Illuminati. Being a series about global conspiracy, the truth is going to be buried, just like it is in-universe thanks to groups like the Illuminati and Majestic 12.

I've seen the Sarif sub-quest sections. I've seen the closing ending. It's just cut and presented in a weird way.

As far as Adam and Megan goes, it's presented as if it's going to open up later on. It does not.

Darrow has so little screen time he could hardly be seen as the antagonist. Just so were clear, i am aware that he is the mastermind behind most of it. It's just presented in such a casual way it does not feel right. Zhao as a last boss also made no sense.

I've played the older games many times. I am aware of the Majestic 12 and the Illuminati and am used to having to search around for clues.

Let me put my issues with the story in a clearer light.

Pritchard and Malik. They run you trough a good portion of the game. Malik dies in an heroic manner. She has been setting the tone for an eventual emotional encounter. Hell, you find her corpse on an examination table at Tong's. Nothing, not a comment, not a dialogue. It's completely crazy. It is as if she has never been part of the game.

And Pritchard. He is antagonizing you half-way trough the game. He warms up to the idea of exposing whatever is happening with you. He is a major character in the game. He arguably has the biggest amount of lines. Absolutely no close-up, nothing at all. It is as if he has never been part of the game.

I don't mean to say that the game overarching theme isn't well done. It's the characters interaction that's profoundly lacking, especially at the end. The game starts out so well establishing these connections, and there is just no end delivery. Might has well never have been a Pritchard or a Malik to run you trough the parts.

As a final note, i absolutely loved the game. Maybe that's why these little things are bothering me. I think the game leaves a lasting enough impact that it's worth discussing the good and the bad.

[God, owner of the Universe]

Originally posted by lucidique:

Malik dies in an heroic manner. She has been setting the tone for an eventual emotional encounter. Hell, you find her corpse on an examination table at Tong's.

It's the characters interaction that's profoundly lacking, especially at the end.

I agree with your take on lack of character interactions - TV shows / movies do this better. It feels as if Eidos Montreal ran out of time/money or it was just a too complex task they had on the table.

But just so you know: Malik can be saved. And btw., in that prison camp in the ocean, you can save the doctor as well as the prisoners.

EDIT: Just stumbled over a comment on Reddit that says something along your lines, and I agree with that, too:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Deusex/comments/57avff/why_mankind_divided_isnt_deus_ex/d8qfrpl?context=3

[Vassago Rain]

Malik only dies if you're too bad to save her...

Like I said, you don't really know what you're talking about.

[lucidique]

Originally posted by God, owner of the Universe:

Originally posted by lucidique:

Malik dies in an heroic manner. She has been setting the tone for an eventual emotional encounter. Hell, you find her corpse on an examination table at Tong's.

It's the characters interaction that's profoundly lacking, especially at the end.

I agree with your take on lack of character interactions - TV shows / movies do this better. It feels as if Eidos Montreal ran out of time/money or it was just a too complex task they had on the table.

But just so you know: Malik can be saved. And btw., in that prison camp in the ocean, you can save the doctor as well as the prisoners.

EDIT: Just stumbled over a comment on Reddit that says something along your lines, and I agree with that, too:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Deusex/comments/57avff/why_mankind_divided_isnt_deus_ex/d8qfrpl?context=3

Yeah, well, i would not go as far as to say that Human Revolution isn't Deus Ex. I still think it's a stellar game. I just feel like a bit more dialogue could have been written toward the end of the game.

Oh well.

[lucidique]

Originally posted by Vassago Rain:

Malik only dies if you're too bad to save her...

Like I said, you don't really know what you're talking about.

I am aware that there is branching path. It's completely beside the point to point them out. All of my complains still remain.

Seriously, ♥♥♥♥ off.

[Vassago Rain]

Your complaints, like your belief that there's some kind of love story in the game, are equally as valid.

[Teut]

Originally posted by lucidique:

Originally posted by Vassago Rain:

Malik only dies if you're too bad to save her...

Like I said, you don't really know what you're talking about.

I am aware that there is branching path. It's completely beside the point to point them out. All of my complains still remain.

Seriously, ♥♥♥♥ off.

You've been proven wrong time and time again and instead of retreating from the discussion or even admitting it and thanking people who took the time to explain what you might have missed you turn to insults. Classy.

[lucidique]

Originally posted by Rick Sanchez:

Originally posted by lucidique:

I am aware that there is branching path. It's completely beside the point to point them out. All of my complains still remain.

Seriously, ♥♥♥♥ off.

You've been proven wrong time and time again and instead of retreating from the discussion or even admitting it and thanking people who took the time to explain what you might have missed you turn to insults. Classy.

Thanking him for what? For telling me that some outcomes have been more fleshed out than others? For telling me that my opinion is invalidated because of my "Inability" to have made the right choices during my playtrough?

This is a game about choices. My playtrough is as valid as his or yours, and mine was choke-full of plot holes.

Voicing an opinion isn't about being proven wrong. Those plot-holes do exist.

[Teut]

You can only "easily walk by" the Sarif sidequest if you don't pay attention. I really like that just stumbling through the game has some consequences, sadly people will complain about stuff like that so "hidden" content gets rarer and rarer... .

And what was Jensen about to say when he found Malik at Tong's - and to whom? Pritchard already knew, was he supposed to phone everybody at Sarif Industries? Her Parents? Mumble something to himself? I don't see a plothole.

What "close up" as you put it, do you want for Pritchard? A scene where he and Jensen have a drink at the bar?

Zhao is weak, the Final "Bossfight" a bit silly, no arguement here. (Maybe an attempt to mirror the confrontation with Page in Area 51)

The story surely left questions unanswered, didn't tie up every storyline and if you want to complain about that fair enough, but it was always supposed to be only the first chapter of a new story, so maybe our expectations were different.

I didn't mean to be rude sorry about that - just thought your reaction was a bit strong.

Cheers!