Space joker is a scam

[Falesz]

I refuse to believe it has a 1 in 4 chance to come into effect. Has to be way lower.

[Last_in_line]

The only thing worse than this is the Wheels of fortune tarot card =)
I just had a run and it didn't work about 8 times in a row. And do you know when it worked the first time? When I put a joker (Invisible Joker), which after two rounds and a subsequent sale duplicates a random joker card (although I had about 6 other jokers at that time). Wheels of fortune worked on it. In general, this is a kind of classic, when it works on a card that you intend to sell soon, for example, the Egg.

[RazzberryMocha]

You do realize that the odds of missing space joker/wheel multiple times in a row is not unlikely. For example, ten misses in a row is a 1/17 chance, which is nowhere near unreasonable. And no, the code is not different to what it says, it is a 1/4 chance, you just don't understand probability.

Originally posted by Last_in_line:

The only thing worse than this is the Wheels of fortune tarot card =)
I just had a run and it didn't work about 8 times in a row.

That is literally a 1/10 chance, you did not experience any "crazy odds," that is a perfectly reasonable outcome to expect.

[Twelvefield]

1 in 4 odds are a scam, as far as I am concerned. In a horse race, 1:4 is considered "good" because you have something of a chance and the payout is strong relative to the risk. You run multiple races and hopefully the payout comes before you lose four times. In the long run over time you'd likely lose, which is why horse racing tracks have histories that go back dozens if not hundreds of years: they get more than enough money to fund their high maintenance costs.

Both SJ and WoF in Balatro have crummy payouts for those odds. You are throwing away your money. It is an idiot tax.

That being said, there are many times in Balatro where throwing away your money does no harm. You aren't earning anything that can be spent outside your run, so why not blow your cash? I did have WoF fire seven times in a row, but that was over the span of many games. Now that beat the odds by a wide margin! I bought a lottery ticket (more idiot tax) and promptly did not win a thing. So here I am stuck in the forum rather than on Twelvefield Island with my home-made artillery cannon lobbing napalm shells at Epstein Island.

[Amble]

Blasphemy, if nobody got me I know Space Joker got me.

[srn347]

Space joker and WoF aren't an idiot tax unless you're risking the run on whether it pays out right away. If you play a lot of hands with space joker (*cough* burglar+blueprint *cough*) or generate a ton of tarot cards including wheels, the long term payout is great.

[Thorstorm]

Originally posted by Last_in_line:

The only thing worse than this is the Wheels of fortune tarot card =)
I just had a run and it didn't work about 8 times in a row. And do you know when it worked the first time? When I put a joker (Invisible Joker), which after two rounds and a subsequent sale duplicates a random joker card (although I had about 6 other jokers at that time). Wheels of fortune worked on it. In general, this is a kind of classic, when it works on a card that you intend to sell soon, for example, the Egg.

lol I was saying that yesterday, Wheels of Fortune tarot is definitely either broken or they made a mistake on the probability.
60 hours and maybe 20 if not 30 times I tried this tarot and it never worked... NOPE!

[RazzberryMocha]

Originally posted by Thorstorm:

Originally posted by Last_in_line:

The only thing worse than this is the Wheels of fortune tarot card =)
I just had a run and it didn't work about 8 times in a row. And do you know when it worked the first time? When I put a joker (Invisible Joker), which after two rounds and a subsequent sale duplicates a random joker card (although I had about 6 other jokers at that time). Wheels of fortune worked on it. In general, this is a kind of classic, when it works on a card that you intend to sell soon, for example, the Egg.

lol I was saying that yesterday, Wheels of Fortune tarot is definitely either broken or they made a mistake on the probability.
60 hours and maybe 20 if not 30 times I tried this tarot and it never worked... NOPE!

Here is the code for wheel of fortune, code which is perfectly good and is not bugged like you claim. You do realize that cases like this are in fact possible, right? Even after testing over 50 wheels with a debug mode the results were 1/4. You either are unlucky, fell into a negativity bias, or don't understand the fundamentals of probability.

    if self.ability.name == 'The Wheel of Fortune' or self.ability.name == 'Ectoplasm' or self.ability.name == 'Hex' then
        local temp_pool =   (self.ability.name == 'The Wheel of Fortune' and self.eligible_strength_jokers) or 
                            ((self.ability.name == 'Ectoplasm' or self.ability.name == 'Hex') and self.eligible_editionless_jokers) or {}
        if self.ability.name == 'Ectoplasm' or self.ability.name == 'Hex' or pseudorandom('wheel_of_fortune') < G.GAME.probabilities.normal/self.ability.extra then 
            G.E_MANAGER:add_event(Event({trigger = 'after', delay = 0.4, func = function()
                local over = false
                local eligible_card = pseudorandom_element(temp_pool, pseudoseed(
                    (self.ability.name == 'The Wheel of Fortune' and 'wheel_of_fortune') or 
                    (self.ability.name == 'Ectoplasm' and 'ectoplasm') or
                    (self.ability.name == 'Hex' and 'hex')
                ))
                local edition = nil
                if self.ability.name == 'Ectoplasm' then
                    edition = {negative = true}
                elseif self.ability.name == 'Hex' then
                    edition = {polychrome = true}
                elseif self.ability.name == 'The Wheel of Fortune' then
                    edition = poll_edition('wheel_of_fortune', nil, true, true)
                end
                eligible_card:set_edition(edition, true)
                if self.ability.name == 'The Wheel of Fortune' or self.ability.name == 'Ectoplasm' or self.ability.name == 'Hex' then check_for_unlock({type = 'have_edition'}) end
                if self.ability.name == 'Hex' then 
                    local _first_dissolve = nil
                    for k, v in pairs(G.jokers.cards) do
                        if v ~= eligible_card and (not v.ability.eternal) then v:start_dissolve(nil, _first_dissolve);_first_dissolve = true end
                    end
                end
                if self.ability.name == 'Ectoplasm' then 
                    G.GAME.ecto_minus = G.GAME.ecto_minus or 1
                    G.hand:change_size(-G.GAME.ecto_minus)
                    G.GAME.ecto_minus = G.GAME.ecto_minus + 1
                end
                used_tarot:juice_up(0.3, 0.5)
            return true end }))
        else
            G.E_MANAGER:add_event(Event({trigger = 'after', delay = 0.4, func = function()
                attention_text({
                    text = localize('k_nope_ex'),
                    scale = 1.3, 
                    hold = 1.4,
                    major = used_tarot,
                    backdrop_colour = G.C.SECONDARY_SET.Tarot,
                    align = (G.STATE == G.STATES.TAROT_PACK or G.STATE == G.STATES.SPECTRAL_PACK) and 'tm' or 'cm',
                    offset = {x = 0, y = (G.STATE == G.STATES.TAROT_PACK or G.STATE == G.STATES.SPECTRAL_PACK) and -0.2 or 0},
                    silent = true
                    })
                    G.E_MANAGER:add_event(Event({trigger = 'after', delay = 0.06*G.SETTINGS.GAMESPEED, blockable = false, blocking = false, func = function()
                        play_sound('tarot2', 0.76, 0.4);return true end}))
                    play_sound('tarot2', 1, 0.4)
                    used_tarot:juice_up(0.3, 0.5)
            return true end }))
        end
        delay(0.6)
    end

[c0wtools]

space joker just doesn't love you like he loves me

[kripcision]

yeah if possible like to run the joker that doubles your odds for stuff like that.

[Last_in_line]

Regarding all sorts of probabilities, I have also made the following observation during the game. If two cards (for example, two Glass, or two Lucky cards) are next to each other, then they are more likely to break or trigger simultaneously). The key word is simultaneously, i.e. both at once. Although it would seem, what is the chance...

I just remember how I got the achievement "break two glass cards at the same time". I saw them for the first time then (I just started playing this game), put them on the table and they both broke right away.

And since then I often pay attention to the fact that, for example, if I get two identical cards with some trigger through the Tarot card "Death (XIII)" and then play them, then it seems that they are more often triggered. That is, two Glass often break, and two Lucky - more often give money or a multiplier.

I write only about my feelings. The person on top (RazzberryMocha) even posted the code for how the Wheels of Fortune tarot card works. To be honest, I don't understand anything about it, but thanks to him anyway, he patiently explains everything without unnecessary emotions and swearing. I'm not saying that there are any technical shortcomings, just my feelings, maybe they are deceptive.

[RazzberryMocha]

Originally posted by Last_in_line:

Regarding all sorts of probabilities, I have also made the following observation during the game. If two cards (for example, two Glass, or two Lucky cards) are next to each other, then they are more likely to break or trigger simultaneously). The key word is simultaneously, i.e. both at once. Although it would seem, what is the chance...

This just isn't true in the slightest. Probability for glass/lucky cards is only affected by the oops all 6s joker, nothing else affects probability. Humans are just good at noticing patterns where they do not exist.

[Mr. Tact]

Originally posted by RazzberryMocha:

Humans are just good at noticing patterns where they do not exist.

True. And it is not only an issue in card games.

[Twelvefield]

Originally posted by srn347:

Space joker and WoF aren't an idiot tax unless you're risking the run on whether it pays out right away. If you play a lot of hands with space joker (*cough* burglar+blueprint *cough*) or generate a ton of tarot cards including wheels, the long term payout is great.

Yes, you are right. Remind me to bring my Burglar and Blueprint next time I'm at Hastings Racecourse. They will bring their Knuckles and No-Nose in response.

[Firaga]

People don't understand how probabilities work. 1 in 4 odds to succeed (0,75 probability to fail) is valid for each individual throw now matter how many fails have occurred before it. At the same time when in average one fourth of the throws are successful in a big number of throws, probability to fail 10 times a row is 0,75^10 = 10% which is not that uncommon. On the other hand, having failed already 9 times, the next will fail with a 75% probability and the history does not influence it.

[Falesz]

Originally posted by Firaga:

People don't understand how probabilities work. 1 in 4 odds to succeed (0,75 probability to fail) is valid for each individual throw now matter how many fails have occurred before it. At the same time when in average one fourth of the throws are successful in a big number of throws, probability to fail 10 times a row is 0,75^10 = 10% which is not that uncommon. On the other hand, having failed already 9 times, the next will fail with a 75% probability and the history does not influence it.

I believe we all studied basic probability theory. (Or at least we should have)
We all understand that.
I'm probably in a negativity bias, but what I'm saying is since on average 1 out of 4 times it should work, scaling that up out of 100 around 25 times it should work. I haven't kept an exact count, but I'm pretty sure I've already played 100 hands with the Space joker and I can remember about 4-5 times when it actually worked. And yes, same thing goes for the Wheel of fortune.