Bosses such as the Fish are just instant losses

[Millenia]

Seems pointless to me. I realise the point is to use all rerolls and hope you get something good but still, not every run is like that.

[malogoss]

Originally posted by ulzgoroth:

Which context is the vanilla +4 mult joker good in? The only one I can think of is 'I got it with an edition'. With a sideline in being better than nothing so when you would otherwise have had nothing it's nice.

You pretty much nailed it, not much to add, except that when a joker is always good through ante 1 and 2, it does not matter how strong it is for the rest of a run, it's still a very good joker. Run starts are crucial, non conditional +mult is huge, even +4.

Just imagine if you could guarantee you got that joker every time, from the first shop's pack. Overall win rate goes up instantly. Unless you're already winning 100% of your runs without it.

[RazzberryMocha]

Originally posted by ulzgoroth:

Originally posted by malogoss:

When I was grinding gold stickers, it went a lot smoother than I first expected.
I even took a screenshot and titled it to not forget this : I had only 11 gold stickers missing. Then, In the same run, I added 4 more stickers to my collection, leaving me with 7 missing.

After all those runs, 4 new stickers in one go. That just shows how all jokers are good in the right context.

Which context is the vanilla +4 mult joker good in? The only one I can think of is 'I got it with an edition'. With a sideline in being better than nothing so when you would otherwise have had nothing it's nice.

It can singlehandedly help with the first 1-2 antes and a little beyond that with support. Additionally, it only costs $2, sells for $1, and it will get you out of the early blinds faster, giving you extra money from additional hands. The amount of value the basic joker (or any scoring joker) can provide to early game econ cannot be undersold. On gold stake, if you don't establish a good econ early you are dead.

[beatles42o]

Originally posted by malogoss:

Originally posted by beatles42o:

ive beatten the game a few times, havent used any of the cards the other person said were good.

think people forget strat is subjective.

When I was grinding gold stickers, it went a lot smoother than I first expected.
I even took a screenshot and titled it to not forget this : I had only 11 gold stickers missing. Then, In the same run, I added 4 more stickers to my collection, leaving me with 7 missing.

After all those runs, 4 new stickers in one go. That just shows how all jokers are good in the right context.

i got 3 tarots to turn cards into clubs, and 3 into hearts.

8 cards not in a flush suit.

getting accidental royal flushes . \

but didnt have any mults so a quick loss.

[Lava Rewind]

Originally posted by Millenia:

5 of the FEW good jokers.

I recommend playing for discovery for a while rather than playing to win. In fact, in doing so, you'll find you'll win much more frequently.

Do some science basically. There are some jokers that are more universally "good." But nearly all jokers have great potential depending on what circumstance you are in, or what goal you think you'll have a good chance of achieving. Things that look basic and weak can be immensely powerful if you have other pieces present to take advantage of it. Learn which jokers work well with which hand types, vouchers, consumables, even which deck you are playing with. For example, I've had a crazy runaway high card run with Red Card as the star with an economic focus, and that's commonly seen as a low-tier joker. With time you'll get the hang of which puzzle pieces fit together and then you'll have a wide variety of strategies available to implement and even more to discover.

Edit: I'll also add it's not always all about the jokers! I've gotten through the boss blind that disables jokers because I was able to focus on deck manipulation, and got clean through without having to give up any jokers

[Sedrido]

red card is just flat mult constellation

[ulzgoroth]

Why would red card be seen as low tier? It's one of the strongest mult adders I've seen later in a run when you've been able to feed it.

[Sedrido]

thats the problem feeding it can be expensive but it can be pretty strong if there nothing better available

[ulzgoroth]

Originally posted by malogoss:

Originally posted by ulzgoroth:

Which context is the vanilla +4 mult joker good in? The only one I can think of is 'I got it with an edition'. With a sideline in being better than nothing so when you would otherwise have had nothing it's nice.

You pretty much nailed it, not much to add, except that when a joker is always good through ante 1 and 2, it does not matter how strong it is for the rest of a run, it's still a very good joker. Run starts are crucial, non conditional +mult is huge, even +4.

Just imagine if you could guarantee you got that joker every time, from the first shop's pack. Overall win rate goes up instantly. Unless you're already winning 100% of your runs without it.

Hmm, but getting stake stickers is based on the jokers you carry through the Ante 8 boss, no? At that point, +4 mult is really not going to be a good use of a joker slot, is it?

+4 mult and polychrome maybe. Or negative of course if you have the weird luck to get that combination.

[RazzberryMocha]

Originally posted by ulzgoroth:

Originally posted by malogoss:

You pretty much nailed it, not much to add, except that when a joker is always good through ante 1 and 2, it does not matter how strong it is for the rest of a run, it's still a very good joker. Run starts are crucial, non conditional +mult is huge, even +4.

Just imagine if you could guarantee you got that joker every time, from the first shop's pack. Overall win rate goes up instantly. Unless you're already winning 100% of your runs without it.

Hmm, but getting stake stickers is based on the jokers you carry through the Ante 8 boss, no? At that point, +4 mult is really not going to be a good use of a joker slot, is it?

+4 mult and polychrome maybe. Or negative of course if you have the weird luck to get that combination.

Unfortunately, not every joker is viable in the lategame antes, with many often contributing little to nothing to your build. If you care for getting all of the gold stickers then you need to be able to beat gold stake with 3-4 joker slots. While you can get negative jokers which help quite a lot for sticker completion, at a certain point negative tags are not worth the investment of skipping a blind just for the rare chance you get a specific joker you're missing.

[SundownKid]

The Fish is not an instant loss, it's not even the hardest boss in the game. There are also ways to make sure the face down cards are what you want, like Tarot cards, if you have a Flush deck.

Usually the hardest Blind for me is either The Wall, The Eye or The Flint. (The former is just a brutal deck power check and the latter 2 heavily punish relying on a single highly upgraded hand type). Needle is ironically not as bad as Eye because the max is so low.

Easiest are Psychic (literally only a problem when you have Half Joker, it's more of a joke boss than anything), and The Tooth.

[malogoss]

Originally posted by ulzgoroth:

Hmm, but getting stake stickers is based on the jokers you carry through the Ante 8 boss, no? At that point, +4 mult is really not going to be a good use of a joker slot, is it?

+4 mult and polychrome maybe. Or negative of course if you have the weird luck to get that combination.

Why is it about stickers now?

[Sedrido]

Originally posted by ulzgoroth:

Originally posted by malogoss:

You pretty much nailed it, not much to add, except that when a joker is always good through ante 1 and 2, it does not matter how strong it is for the rest of a run, it's still a very good joker. Run starts are crucial, non conditional +mult is huge, even +4.

Just imagine if you could guarantee you got that joker every time, from the first shop's pack. Overall win rate goes up instantly. Unless you're already winning 100% of your runs without it.

Hmm, but getting stake stickers is based on the jokers you carry through the Ante 8 boss, no? At that point, +4 mult is really not going to be a good use of a joker slot, is it?

+4 mult and polychrome maybe. Or negative of course if you have the weird luck to get that combination.

thats why you play anaglyph with 20 negative jokers like a real man

[ulzgoroth]

Originally posted by malogoss:

Originally posted by ulzgoroth:

Hmm, but getting stake stickers is based on the jokers you carry through the Ante 8 boss, no? At that point, +4 mult is really not going to be a good use of a joker slot, is it?

+4 mult and polychrome maybe. Or negative of course if you have the weird luck to get that combination.

Why is it about stickers now?

The post I originally responded to opened with you saying "When I was grinding gold stickers, it went a lot smoother than I first expected."