Riff-Raff and Ceremonial Dagger

[TowerWizard]

Riff-Raff: When Blind is selected, create 2 common Jokers (must have room)

Ceremonial Dagger: When Blind is selected, destroy Joker to the right and permanently add double its sell value to this Mult.

You would think having both of these would be a killer combo, pun intended?

If I have a Joker (and no other slots) to the right of Ceremonial Dagger, it destroys that Joker, but no Joker is generated from Riff-Raff (meaning Riff-Raff could have triggered first).

If I do have an empty slot next to Ceremonial Dagger (meaning I am below my max number of Jokers), a Joker is created, but not destroyed (meaning that Ceremonial Dagger could have triggered first).

So these effects seem to trigger at the exact same time. None of them have priority over the other. Which means it is much more tricky to get this combo to work, because you need effectively two open slots (one filled with a joker, and one empty) to get to trigger both cards every round.

It is just sad that the developers seem to want to destroy this combo, pun intended.

[Pingoso]

A real killer combo is Ceremonial Dagger and Egg, because Egg gets 3$ of value after every blind, it's basically a +6 mult every blind until you decide to feed it to the dagger. If you can double the Egg, it's even more broken.

[TowerWizard]

Originally posted by Pingoso:

A real killer combo is Ceremonial Dagger and Egg, because Egg gets 3$ of value after every blind, it's basically a +6 mult every blind until you decide to feed it to the dagger. If you can double the Egg, it's even more broken.

Jepp, I had Egg during this run. The downside is that having all three jokers does, unsurprisingly, take up three Joker slots, and you would also need a sacrifice victim and an open Joker slot (as explained above) so that takes up all five slots... I mean I won the run, but still.

[Ronald Brain]

Originally posted by TowerWizard:

Riff-Raff: When Blind is selected, create 2 common Jokers (must have room)

Ceremonial Dagger: When Blind is selected, destroy Joker to the right and permanently add double its sell value to this Mult.

You would think having both of these would be a killer combo, pun intended?

If I have a Joker (and no other slots) to the right of Ceremonial Dagger, it destroys that Joker, but no Joker is generated from Riff-Raff (meaning Riff-Raff could have triggered first).

If I do have an empty slot next to Ceremonial Dagger (meaning I am below my max number of Jokers), a Joker is created, but not destroyed (meaning that Ceremonial Dagger could have triggered first).

So these effects seem to trigger at the exact same time. None of them have priority over the other. Which means it is much more tricky to get this combo to work, because you need effectively two open slots (one filled with a joker, and one empty) to get to trigger both cards every round.

It is just sad that the developers seem to want to destroy this combo, pun intended.

The real trick is to have only 4 Jokers at any moment: Riff-Raff, Ceremonial Dagger and two spare one. Each round, feed the Dagger one Joker, it's eaten, then Riff-Raff makes two new ones.

[TowerWizard]

Originally posted by Ronald Brain:

The real trick is to have only 4 Jokers at any moment: Riff-Raff, Ceremonial Dagger and two spare one. Each round, feed the Dagger one Joker, it's eaten, then Riff-Raff makes two new ones.

But then you only have one effective Joker. I think five even moderately useful Jokers is better than one Joker that gets 2-4 X more each round.

In my run, I lucked out on Arrowhead in the Checkered deck. So I used that for 250 extra chips each round using Spade Flushes. I had Ceremonial+Riff-Raff, and experimented with how those two worked with each other (as mentioned above) and then I got Egg which was both good and bad (since it takes a slot till you decide to destroy it), and then I also got a negative Joker, which complicated things (ironically), since it was not useful for my run, but it was still a free Joker, so should I destroy it, or...

But this was on white sticker difficulty, so I had not trouble actually winning the run.

[Ronald Brain]

Originally posted by TowerWizard:

But then you only have one effective Joker. I think five even moderately useful Jokers is better than one Joker that gets 2-4 X more each round.

In my run, I lucked out on Arrowhead in the Checkered deck. So I used that for 250 extra chips each round using Spade Flushes. I had Ceremonial+Riff-Raff, and experimented with how those two worked with each other (as mentioned above) and then I got Egg which was both good and bad (since it takes a slot till you decide to destroy it), and then I also got a negative Joker, which complicated things (ironically), since it was not useful for my run, but it was still a free Joker, so should I destroy it, or...

But this was on white sticker difficulty, so I had not trouble actually winning the run.

There is literally a challenge that pins Ceremonial Dagger to the left so you're forced to keep feeding it until you clear Ante 8 lol. This Joker is powerful if you know how to use it in early Antes, because if you have a good Mult Joker, you can keep going without having a full Joker roster.

[TowerWizard]

Originally posted by Ronald Brain:

There is literally a challenge that pins Ceremonial Dagger to the left so you're forced to keep feeding it until you clear Ante 8 lol. This Joker is powerful if you know how to use it in early Antes, because if you have a good Mult Joker, you can keep going without having a full Joker roster.

Haven't gotten to challenges yet, but sure, it is powerful, I am not denying that.

[S♥ShiMe]

The real trick is to have only 4 Jokers at any moment: Riff-Raff, Ceremonial Dagger and two spare one. Each round, feed the Dagger one Joker, it's eaten, then Riff-Raff makes two new ones.

so does this work?

[TowerWizard]

Originally posted by S♥ShiMe:

The real trick is to have only 4 Jokers at any moment: Riff-Raff, Ceremonial Dagger and two spare one. Each round, feed the Dagger one Joker, it's eaten, then Riff-Raff makes two new ones.

so does this work?

I think Riff-Raff would only produce one new Joker (since they trigger at the same exact time, and then there is only room for one).

[jonif]

Funny enough, I asked myself the same question as I got a run where I got Riff-Raff and Ceremonial Dagger and had four cards after a round. That's how I got here.

For the next round I put Ceremonial Dagger to the left, followed by one useless joker and then Riff-Raff. One card got eaten and two new cards where created. So at the start of the round I had five jokers.

[lel]

Uhh small newb question, isnt ceremonial dagger bad because it gives a + mult, instead of a X mult and you are forced to put it on the 5th row which doesnt help much since the Joker slots goes from left to right?

[TowerWizard]

Do you mean starting with four jokers like this:

Random Joker. Ceremonial Dagger, Useless Joker, Riff-Raff, Empty

And ending up with five jokers? That seems at odds with what i discovered. Unless the order of the Jokers matters, and the leftmost joker triggers first and then the rightmost. i did not think to try that.

[TowerWizard]

Originally posted by lel:

Uhh small newb question, isnt ceremonial dagger bad because it gives a + mult, instead of a X mult and you are forced to put it on the 5th row which doesnt help much since the Joker slots goes from left to right?

You are not forced to put it at fifth row if you destroy a joker every round. Then you can have it at third row, then a useless joker, and then an X mult joker.

[Goblin]

Originally posted by jonif:

Funny enough, I asked myself the same question as I got a run where I got Riff-Raff and Ceremonial Dagger and had four cards after a round. That's how I got here.

For the next round I put Ceremonial Dagger to the left, followed by one useless joker and then Riff-Raff. One card got eaten and two new cards where created. So at the start of the round I had five jokers.

Thanks for the confirmation, I expected it would work like that but it's nice knowing for sure if I ever encounter it.

Originally posted by lel:

Uhh small newb question, isnt ceremonial dagger bad because it gives a + mult, instead of a X mult and you are forced to put it on the 5th row which doesnt help much since the Joker slots goes from left to right?

You can put it on the left as long as you keep buying jokers to sacrifice. If fed the entire game it can get really high mult, comparable to a lower +mult with a x2 or x3 to the right.

[lel]

Originally posted by Goblin:

Originally posted by jonif:

Funny enough, I asked myself the same question as I got a run where I got Riff-Raff and Ceremonial Dagger and had four cards after a round. That's how I got here.

For the next round I put Ceremonial Dagger to the left, followed by one useless joker and then Riff-Raff. One card got eaten and two new cards where created. So at the start of the round I had five jokers.

Thanks for the confirmation, I expected it would work like that but it's nice knowing for sure if I ever encounter it.

Originally posted by lel:

Uhh small newb question, isnt ceremonial dagger bad because it gives a + mult, instead of a X mult and you are forced to put it on the 5th row which doesnt help much since the Joker slots goes from left to right?

You can put it on the left as long as you keep buying jokers to sacrifice. If fed the entire game it can get really high mult, comparable to a lower +mult with a x2 or x3 to the right.

Hmmm okay. Weird way of playing though unless you have the joker that gives free common jokers every blind though. Thanks for the info!

[Goblin]

There's a challenge where you have to use it, so always good to think of how to do so.
That joker is a great synergy, especially now knowing it can give you a fifth joker, but it's not a requirement. Any half decent form of income works fine too. Clearance Sale voucher is a synergy of course - except it lowers your +mult per turn.

Compare for instance Red Card, which you have to spend between $4 and $8 on for a flat +3 mult. For dagger that same money would give between +2 and +4 mult. Red card's spending does mean you have a choice to pick a specific thing from the packs you buy to feed it instead of the +3. But mostly you're losing out on packs. Yet you can do both packs if you're rolling in cash for +6 mult.
Fortune Teller is only +1 mult, but you get to use the tarots, but you need specifically tarot packs, etc.
All of them have their own pros and cons, just gotta know how and when to use it.