so many jokers are useless

[retard]

it's so terrible that in stage 1 or 2 u cant even find just one useful joker(just dont look so stupid).strengthen some jokers plz

[TowerWizard]

Some are good early, some are good middle game, and some are good for the late game. Some are combo pieces, some are for challenges.

Unless you have some specific jokers in mind we can discuss, I don't know how I can help you.

[BeautifulFlowerField]

you can beat the first ante jokerless ez, but you might be underrating some jokers. also you need to buy bad jokers if that's what you need to do. like if you're drafting magic the gathering sometimes you need that 5/6 vanilla creature because otherwise you'd have no top end. well sometimes you need a bad joker just to have a little mult in the meantime.

[bshock]

Not really. They all have their uses but can be situational or dependent on certain other jokers to be of great value. You can rotate them out as you progress through the rounds.

[Ace High]

walkie-talkie, mime, loyalist card (too slow), chaos the clown, rocket, superposition, turtle bean, hallucination, flash card, oops all 6's

All of these should be a little stronger I could name more but these are what i would start with.

[jinx20001]

there has to be weaker cards early game to add some kind of strategy and thinking to the early game itself and there is the possibility of getting a strong card early. often im finding that what seems like a weak card can be turned into a weapon in combination with other cards and how they are placed as im sure we all already know... its relatively balanced as far as i can see for how strong the cards are at each stage of progression. More cards wouldn't hurt though, the more the merrier.

[sab0t]

i think it's okay to have bad or nearly useless jokers, but i wish some of them were a bit cheaper. sometimes they are as expensive as objectively better jokers.

[malogoss]

Some of the worse, to me, are Green joker and Obelisk.

The only scenario I can see Green joker being worth it is in combo with Burglar, early game. Else there is many options that are about as good as that combo but in a single joker instead. Sure, you could decide to use Green joker just for fun (without Burglar), but then it becomes one of two things. Either its mult bonus stays really low or you use less discard, play more hands, and because of it, leave a lot of money behind.

I could see Green joker being buffed. Like, start with a +5 mult, at least. Or maybe not get -1 with every discard used. Maybe if the first discard used every round had no consequence it would be okay.

And Obelisk, I get it, but at the same time, I don't really see a way to make it work. I guess if you're fine with small bonuses, that reset now and then, then it's not a problem. But again, so many options are better, it makes Obelisk a bad card. The best that could happen is something like, you focused on flushes for many, many rounds. Then when you finally switch to Flush Full, you get offered an Obelisk. That has potential. You might even switch to Flush Five later and get many rounds of Obelisk ramping up.

But that scenario is luck based. I won't waste a joker slot with Obelisk, hoping that i'll make it work later.

Obelisk would be much more interesting if, in case of a tie between two hands for most hands played, it did not reset Obelisk. So you could play one hand, then another, and keep Obelisk ramping. Then the +0.2 bonus would probably be too much, but whatever it would need to be nerfed to would still make a more fun version of the Obelisk, IMO.

[sab0t]

all very good points malogoss, agreed completely. i have actually still never used Obelisk, it is way too situational and there are just better options.

I've tried using green joker several times. I've tried to just play normally and hope for the best, and it always stays around 0, 1 or 2. when I've tried to actually play more hands to get its mult up, I end up losing out on the extra money I would've gotten from beating the round with leftover hands. I agree it either needs some base mult, or loses mult less often in some way or another. alternatively, maybe if it only cost like $1 or something lol. i know it can potentially be strong with the burglar joker, but as malogoss pointed out this really isn't worth 2 joker slots.

i kind of want to try and make a build around green joker / burglar just for the challenge, maybe using blue deck for the +1 hands and then getting the +1 hand voucher. still don't think it's ever worth buying though.

[BeautifulFlowerField]

Originally posted by Ace High:

walkie-talkie, mime, loyalist card (too slow), chaos the clown, rocket, superposition, turtle bean, hallucination, flash card, oops all 6's

All of these should be a little stronger I could name more but these are what i would start with.

mime is responsible for the highest theoretical possible scores i think, with the card that gives you mult for kings in hand and all steel/glass red seal kings.

[Endless]

Originally posted by malogoss:

Some of the worse, to me, are Green joker and Obelisk.

The only scenario I can see Green joker being worth it is in combo with Burglar, early game. Else there is many options that are about as good as that combo but in a single joker instead. Sure, you could decide to use Green joker just for fun (without Burglar), but then it becomes one of two things. Either its mult bonus stays really low or you use less discard, play more hands, and because of it, leave a lot of money behind.

I could see Green joker being buffed. Like, start with a +5 mult, at least. Or maybe not get -1 with every discard used. Maybe if the first discard used every round had no consequence it would be okay.

And Obelisk, I get it, but at the same time, I don't really see a way to make it work. I guess if you're fine with small bonuses, that reset now and then, then it's not a problem. But again, so many options are better, it makes Obelisk a bad card. The best that could happen is something like, you focused on flushes for many, many rounds. Then when you finally switch to Flush Full, you get offered an Obelisk. That has potential. You might even switch to Flush Five later and get many rounds of Obelisk ramping up.

But that scenario is luck based. I won't waste a joker slot with Obelisk, hoping that i'll make it work later.

Obelisk would be much more interesting if, in case of a tie between two hands for most hands played, it did not reset Obelisk. So you could play one hand, then another, and keep Obelisk ramping. Then the +0.2 bonus would probably be too much, but whatever it would need to be nerfed to would still make a more fun version of the Obelisk, IMO.

I just finished a 12 Ante run with Obelisk getting to about 7 Mult. It wasn't my biggest contributor, but it certainly was pulling its weight.

[Rithrin]

Originally posted by Ace High:

walkie-talkie, mime, loyalist card (too slow), chaos the clown, rocket, superposition, turtle bean, hallucination, flash card, oops all 6's

All of these should be a little stronger I could name more but these are what i would start with.

Walkie talkie is great! Just hit Arcana packs hard and use Death/Strength to convert cards to 10s and 4s. Even just one Strength hitting a 9 and 3 sets you up for fantastic Full Houses, then from there you can hunt for red seals, Hack, planet cards, suit jokers, whatever.

Superposition is also great, but you have to think of it as an economy card. Probably want to pick it up early to milk for a few antes, then drop it later for better combo pieces.

Rocket you definitely want early, and it's probably best with decks like Black Deck (low number of starting hands) that need help generating income.

Turtle Bean, Chaos, Oops all 6s, generally not great on their own, but can be a great boost with the right Jokers. But the thing about this game is that you don't need Jokers to beat the first 4 blinds, so you can just skip these. Even the basic vanilla Joker can be enough to get you breathing room for a few blinds to get more shop opportunities.

[brickey.8]

Originally posted by Ace High:

walkie-talkie, mime, loyalist card (too slow), chaos the clown, rocket, superposition, turtle bean, hallucination, flash card, oops all 6's

All of these should be a little stronger I could name more but these are what i would start with.

The sign of a good game is that I really like a few of the ones you think are useless, though they're not a-listers. Walkie talkie is extremely powerful (by common standards) and fun if you can focus on those ranks, but you have to build around it. Chaos the Clown (that's the "1 free reroll" card right?) pays for itself immediately if you have a slot open mid-game, and can save a surprising amount of money if you stick with it. Hallucination generates decent value over time (1 free tarot per shop if you're not skipping booster). I don't remember what some of those others do. Turtle Bean is absurdly OP if you get it a few levels before the end of the game, ok short-term card otherwise. The only one you listed that I remember what it does and agree it's bad is rocket.

[TowerWizard]

Originally posted by brickey.8:

The sign of a good game is that I really like a few of the ones you think are useless, though they're not a-listers.

The only one you listed that I remember what it does and agree it's bad is rocket.

Get rocket as the first joker, and when it gives you 11 cash per blind, it is pretty good.

[ErLouwer]

I see you honor your name

[Goblin]

Originally posted by malogoss:

Some of the worse, to me, are Green joker and Obelisk.

The only scenario I can see Green joker being worth it is in combo with Burglar, early game. Else there is many options that are about as good as that combo but in a single joker instead. Sure, you could decide to use Green joker just for fun (without Burglar), but then it becomes one of two things. Either its mult bonus stays really low or you use less discard, play more hands, and because of it, leave a lot of money behind.

I could see Green joker being buffed. Like, start with a +5 mult, at least. Or maybe not get -1 with every discard used. Maybe if the first discard used every round had no consequence it would be okay.

And Obelisk, I get it, but at the same time, I don't really see a way to make it work. I guess if you're fine with small bonuses, that reset now and then, then it's not a problem. But again, so many options are better, it makes Obelisk a bad card. The best that could happen is something like, you focused on flushes for many, many rounds. Then when you finally switch to Flush Full, you get offered an Obelisk. That has potential. You might even switch to Flush Five later and get many rounds of Obelisk ramping up.

But that scenario is luck based. I won't waste a joker slot with Obelisk, hoping that i'll make it work later.

Obelisk would be much more interesting if, in case of a tie between two hands for most hands played, it did not reset Obelisk. So you could play one hand, then another, and keep Obelisk ramping. Then the +0.2 bonus would probably be too much, but whatever it would need to be nerfed to would still make a more fun version of the Obelisk, IMO.

Green Joker has been some of my easiest wins, Burglar would just make it even better, and if it happens to be paired with Ride the Bus early on it's a complete cakewalk. The only issue at all with it is not getting as much money, but that's what economy jokers are for.
Obelisk is crummy in a focused-on-one-hand run, but if you find it late enough in a run where you spam particular hands to upgrade a joker it goes bonkers - as long as you make sure your deck is a little stacked in odds so you're not forced to play that hand anymore. The tie thing would be nice, since it can be hard to pull off anyway, but it's not like there's not already plenty of scenarios where it's viable.