Magic trick voucher worse than useless?

[brickey.8]

The magic trick voucher (the one that makes regular cards appear in the shop) is absolutely awful. As far as I can tell, it ONLY makes unenhanced cards appear. There's almost no circumstance where you'd want to buy most of those. The only time you'd ever even be tempted is if you're focusing hard on one number (in which case only 1 in 13 will be the right number). But every one of those cards takes away a chance at a card that you'd actually want, so you just have to spend more on rerolls.

I grabbed it on a run with the joker whose multiplier increases with every card you add to the deck, and even then I didn't choose to buy a single one because they would water down my deck.

If this cost $0 it would still be detrimental to most runs.

[Rokk]

Ursprungligen skrivet av iheartdaikaiju:

EDIT : I missed the post two above mine before I wrote all this lol, I agree with /u/Wheelchair Murdura

Screw spoilers and being vague since this discussion keeps going.

Illusion is the tier 2 version of the Magic Trick voucher and it is A. MA. ZING.

It adds mods to the playing cards in the shop, about as frequently as they appear in packs. You can buy a guaranteed blue or purple seal card for a dollar or two.

I don't get how people figure this out about the blank voucher and don't figure it out about the magic trick voucher but whatever.

People know it exists, people just don't care because Magic Trick is so incredibly bad that the CHANCE of finding Illusion later on isn't worth it. Remember, it's only a chance. If it doesn't pan out, you're griefing yourself for absolutely nothing.

[Serale]

Ursprungligen skrivet av iheartdaikaiju:

EDIT : I missed the post two above mine before I wrote all this lol, I agree with /u/Wheelchair Murdura

Screw spoilers and being vague since this discussion keeps going.

Illusion is the tier 2 version of the Magic Trick voucher and it is A. MA. ZING.

It adds mods to the playing cards in the shop, about as frequently as they appear in packs. You can buy a guaranteed blue or purple seal card for a dollar or two.

I don't get how people figure this out about the blank voucher and don't figure it out about the magic trick voucher but whatever.

because blank voucher doesnt screw up my shop like magic trick does. I ignore that ♥♥♥♥♥♥ voucher on all cases except when I have hologram and i already have 5 decks that finished gold

[Zaddy]

To be honest in probably 95% of situations I wouldn't take it if it was free. IMHO the initial voucher should have the cards in the shop have some kind of guaranteed enchantment, with the upgrade adding a chance for seals and editions. Then MAYBE it'll be okay.

[Rokk]

Considering most good vouchers are just positives without any tradeoffs, I feel like the Magic Trick voucher should be the same. It should add a separate slot in the shop for playing cards. Then when you upgrade to Illusion, those cards can spawn as enhanced cards.

Hot take but the planet/tarot card vouchers should do the same thing, they're just bricked vouchers in the vast majority of runs because jokers are far more important than tarot/planet/playing cards. And on higher stakes this is doubly true because even if you find a good joker like Blueprint or Cavendish, it might be Perishable which means the search for good jokers never really stops.

Even if Magic Trick spawned enhanced cards by default I still wouldn't take it. I still wouldn't take it if it was free on top of that. I will never take a voucher that makes me see less jokers in the shop, you are griefing yourself and ruining your run by taking it outside of VERY specific circumstances (having a completed Ante 8 worthy build AND Hologram).

[brickey.8]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Rokk:

Considering most good vouchers are just positives without any tradeoffs, I feel like the Magic Trick voucher should be the same. It should add a separate slot in the shop for playing cards. Then when you upgrade to Illusion, those cards can spawn as enhanced cards.

Hot take but the planet/tarot card vouchers should do the same thing, they're just bricked vouchers in the vast majority of runs because jokers are far more important than tarot/planet/playing cards. And on higher stakes this is doubly true because even if you find a good joker like Blueprint or Cavendish, it might be Perishable which means the search for good jokers never really stops.

Even if Magic Trick spawned enhanced cards by default I still wouldn't take it. I still wouldn't take it if it was free on top of that. I will never take a voucher that makes me see less jokers in the shop, you are griefing yourself and ruining your run by taking it outside of VERY specific circumstances (having a completed Ante 8 worthy build AND Hologram).

The claim that jokers are more valuable than tarots is kinda wild to me, because once my slots are full I usually ignore 80-90% of jokers. Each generated joker has a small chance of transforming the run and a large chance of doing nothing. Whereas 90% of tarots are always worth buying unless you're completely out of cash, even if the payoff is usually incremental (though Death is potentially as valuable as a good joker). For planets there's a much higher whiff chance, but buying a pre-identified planet when it shows up is a way better value than opening the packs. So I'd still buy a planet voucher if I'm planning to do a lot of rerolls.

[Goblin]

Ursprungligen skrivet av brickey.8:

Ursprungligen skrivet av Rokk:

Considering most good vouchers are just positives without any tradeoffs, I feel like the Magic Trick voucher should be the same. It should add a separate slot in the shop for playing cards. Then when you upgrade to Illusion, those cards can spawn as enhanced cards.

Hot take but the planet/tarot card vouchers should do the same thing, they're just bricked vouchers in the vast majority of runs because jokers are far more important than tarot/planet/playing cards. And on higher stakes this is doubly true because even if you find a good joker like Blueprint or Cavendish, it might be Perishable which means the search for good jokers never really stops.

Even if Magic Trick spawned enhanced cards by default I still wouldn't take it. I still wouldn't take it if it was free on top of that. I will never take a voucher that makes me see less jokers in the shop, you are griefing yourself and ruining your run by taking it outside of VERY specific circumstances (having a completed Ante 8 worthy build AND Hologram).

The claim that jokers are more valuable than tarots is kinda wild to me, because once my slots are full I usually ignore 80-90% of jokers. Each generated joker has a small chance of transforming the run and a large chance of doing nothing. Whereas 90% of tarots are always worth buying unless you're completely out of cash, even if the payoff is usually incremental (though Death is potentially as valuable as a good joker). For planets there's a much higher whiff chance, but buying a pre-identified planet when it shows up is a way better value than opening the packs. So I'd still buy a planet voucher if I'm planning to do a lot of rerolls.

Tarot Merchant 100% is worth it yeah, even somewhat early game. Planet Merchant I'd only take once I have a mostly finalised joker lineup. But I agree that currently, Magic Trick is the #1 thrash voucher and having it add a dedicated card slot to the shop would very easily fix that, so +1 for that idea.

[c0hKaine]

i think its a bad voucher. i tried it and thought i'd roll an enhanced card but only got plain cards. i suppose that wasnt explained fully or i didnt get lucky. you are better off buying card packs than filling your store table with worthless vanilla cards.

[dathompson]

It's ok in certain runs but one of the weaker vouchers.

It would be better Magic Trick had 1/4 chance of being special and the odds for Illusion were higher.

[fty158]

There is a joker that adds an X0.25 multiplier for the whole run every time a card is added to the deck. So this voucher is situational but not completely useless

[Nanashi]

The voucher is somewhat useful if you have to joker with multiplier every time you add a card to your deck. Still have to be somewhat lucky to not get the worst cards but it's at least usable with that joker.

[PineTreePetey]

It is definitely the worst voucher in the game, but just as everything in the game, it isn't 100% useless. Fun Balatro runs are about making it work with what you have, and I find changing up the runs and trying combos with these "useless" items is incredibly fun. I had a green deck run where the first shop had a Hologram and the Magic Trick Voucher- here's the crazy thing though to think about- Constellation Scales .1 x mult/planet- on average a planet card costs ~$3.75- while adding a playing card typically costs $1 and adds .25 x mult for hologram- it scales so so fast.

In this run I Managed to grab a Blue Joker, Certificate, and Gros Michel that lasted a few rounds followed directly by a Cavendish after breaking- eventually got a blueprint. The stars were definitely well aligned, but i had a Hologram over 50x and this deck pretty much played itself to ante 8

[Stalectos]

it's not a top tier voucher (or even a mid tier voucher) but useless is a VERY big stretch. there are decks and strategies where even the chance at more of the specific card you want (or more cards in general) is worth the price of admission in a lot of cases. yeah it clutters up the shop (in theory. in practice I find the actual playing card spawn rate to be kinda low) but 90% of the shop is already clutter anyway.

[TimTim3000]

It's not a voucher that I take a lot, but it can be useful depending on what Jokers I have, how I'm trying to shape my deck etc.

Like nearly everything else in the game, its value is situational.

[Rokk]

Ursprungligen skrivet av TimTim3000:

Like nearly everything else in the game, its value is situational.

Compare that to just about any other voucher in the game, which aren't situational at all, and at the very least are NEVER detrimental:

• Increase the amount of available shop slots
  
• Increase hand size
  
• Increase amount of hands
  
• Increase amount of discards
  
• Everything in shops is discounted
  
• Make rerolls cheaper
  
• Increase consumable slots limit
  
• Planet cards give x1.5 mult to their respective hand
  
• More foil, polychrome and holographic cards
  
• Increase joker slots
  
• Allow you to reroll bosses
  
• Increase interest limit

Magic Trick is a JOKE in comparison to any of these. An absolute joke. You're paying $10 to effectively reduce the amount of usable shop slots you get. In return, if your build is effectively complete, and you also have Hologram (that's 1 joker in the game, out of 150, and it's an Uncommon too), AND you wouldn't make it past the Ante 8 boss with your "completed" build even if you open Standard Packs... it's decent. That's a pretty rare circumstance. Too situational. You aren't ever gonna get usable playing cards out of the standard version of this voucher either because you're not gonna want to spend money and rerolls on random trash cards.

For argument's sake, I'm even ignoring the current bug where the upgraded version (Illusion) can't spawn cards with seals on them.

Outside of very specific circumstances, you are effectively griefing yourself. It doesn't take a genius to see that this voucher is orders of magnitude below the rest.

[Rokk]

Anyway, if you want to make this voucher worthwhile, I see only 2 options.

The first and most preferable one, when a player buys this voucher, add 1 or 2 extra shop slots that are exclusively reserved for playing cards. That would instantly take away the "negative" aspect of this voucher and make it a worthwhile option. Then have Illusion allow these cards to be enhanced, too.

Option two is to allow Magic Trick to spawn enhanced cards, but not always. The chances should be similar to cards found in Standard Packs. Illusion would make these cards always enhanced, but it also needs an extra effect on top of that for Illusion to be worthwhile. Haven't figured that one out yet.