Flush OP and hand level suggestion

[DoubleByte]

1. So far in all of my good games, I've ended up playing pretty much exclusively flushes. They just feel so much more flexible than other hands, since you can put a lot of face cards into them, or toss pairs in to make use of certain jokers. Add that to the fact that the smeared joker is only Uncommon, and you can steamroll pretty easily.

IMO base coin value should be lowered, and the Clubs==Spades, Hearts==Diamonds joker should be Rare.

2. Related, but it's low-key annoying that you can make higher hands worse than lower ones. This is partially tied into the stuff with flushes above, but it just feels awkward to intentionally break up a Straight Flush to make a regular Flush instead because of level ups.

This issue feels less annoying with like the X of a Kind hands because the scaling is such that 3x will pretty much always be better than 2x even if you leveled up pairs a ton.

[sab0t]

my first few wins used flushes, I think I'd agree they are probably the most flexible hand. It's still too early for me to say with authority that they are OP though, I've had some crazy runs using straights, face cards, two pairs, even one that wasn't specialized at all and I just had a crazy amount of bonus / upgraded cards, and all my hands were leveled up because I made a ton of money early on.

as for the smeared joker, there is a similarly powerful joker for straights that lets you skip a rank, ex: 2, 3, 4, 6, 7 becomes a valid straight hand. both jokers are very good.

Overall it feels like there are more ways to get / change card suits than card ranks, so I think flushes are definitely better. I think the 'Strength' tarot could be buffed to 3 cards, and an opposite version that lets you decrease ranks would also make straight builds more flexible.

[Goblin]

Originally posted by sab0t:

as for the smeared joker, there is a similarly powerful joker for straights that lets you skip a rank, ex: 2, 3, 4, 6, 7 becomes a valid straight hand. both jokers are very good.

IIRC it even allows multiple gaps as long as they're only one-rank gaps. So 2 4 6 8 10 would still work. There's also Four Fingers, though that one makes both types of hand easier.
According to someone more knowledgeable on the topic than I am in last weeks threads (Malogoss I think?) straights are more likely to draw, and in normal poker that's certainly reflected in how the hand scores. And thus Balatro follows suit for its base hand scores. But then again there's a deck that only has hearts and spades, that's flush city.
Also notable, for the unlockable rare "x(number) multiplier if hand contains Y hand" jokers the flush one is only x2 while the straight one is x3, so in that regard straights are stronger. I guess overall it all balances out, at least somewhat.

[sab0t]

Originally posted by Goblin:

IIRC it even allows multiple gaps as long as they're only one-rank gaps. So 2 4 6 8 10 would still work. There's also Four Fingers, though that one makes both types of hand easier.

wow that joker is actually WAY better than I even realized, thanks for the tip. Four Fingers is also another great joker, would love to get a run with both of these jokers at the same time, would be able to play straights with almost no difficulty.

[XsacklunchX]

My best run so far between the demo and release was actually based on 2 pairs. I had the joker for playing exactly 4 cards adding extra coins. I had a play 2 pairs and boost mult joker. I was able to replace a lot of cards into specific numbers like 10 or 6. I wanted to stay away from face cards in case I got the debuff face cards boss. Then I had a bunch of 2 pair planets. It was a lot of fun, tbh.

[DoubleByte]

Originally posted by XsacklunchX:

My best run so far between the demo and release was actually based on 2 pairs. I had the joker for playing exactly 4 cards adding extra coins. I had a play 2 pairs and boost mult joker. I was able to replace a lot of cards into specific numbers like 10 or 6. I wanted to stay away from face cards in case I got the debuff face cards boss. Then I had a bunch of 2 pair planets. It was a lot of fun, tbh.

Oh that does sound super fun

I'm definitely not saying there aren't other strategies that are strong; more that flushes are way more flexible and can benefit from non-flush related jokers in a way that other hands can't

[sab0t]

Originally posted by XsacklunchX:

My best run so far between the demo and release was actually based on 2 pairs. I had the joker for playing exactly 4 cards adding extra coins. I had a play 2 pairs and boost mult joker. I was able to replace a lot of cards into specific numbers like 10 or 6. I wanted to stay away from face cards in case I got the debuff face cards boss. Then I had a bunch of 2 pair planets. It was a lot of fun, tbh.

yeah there are lots of great synergies and combinations that make 2 pair powerful, and it's so reliable as it's such an easy hand to get (even more so after altering your cards / adding new ones).

i think you're referring to the joker with the pair of pants on the card, it gets stronger every time 2 pair is played. another very very good joker!

[Goblin]

Originally posted by DoubleByte:

Originally posted by XsacklunchX:

My best run so far between the demo and release was actually based on 2 pairs. I had the joker for playing exactly 4 cards adding extra coins. I had a play 2 pairs and boost mult joker. I was able to replace a lot of cards into specific numbers like 10 or 6. I wanted to stay away from face cards in case I got the debuff face cards boss. Then I had a bunch of 2 pair planets. It was a lot of fun, tbh.

Oh that does sound super fun

I'm definitely not saying there aren't other strategies that are strong; more that flushes are way more flexible and can benefit from non-flush related jokers in a way that other hands can't

Vanilla flushes actually can't benefit from a lot of the "hand contains X" jokers, it's only when you start changing suits that that happens. And changing suits means you don't spend your tarots on other things, or using specific decks or jokers. Meanwhile a full house or 3/4/5 of a kind also benefits from "contains pair/three of a kind/etc." so that's not just flushes, but rather just not straights.

[Well Met]

Two pairs has been OP for me. It's very flexible, you get them every time, just build your deck around them and have the luck needed with planet cards and that's pretty much gg.

[_galaxy]

Flushes only matter early game... late game it's whatever your deck is strongest with. I had a run it was mostly double pair.

[Descending Minor Key Line Cliche]

Originally posted by _galaxy:

Flushes only matter early game... late game it's whatever your deck is strongest with. I had a run it was mostly double pair.

This is true, you can even do a high card build with the right jokers and a lot of plutos.

[SickBoySid]

I actually think flushes are not great in late games / harder difficulty
A lv1 flush house is way worse than an lv12 full house in my most crazy 11+ ante runs I often actually tried to unflush my deck because a lv1 5 of a kind flush was way worse then just lv 8 5 of a kind

Ignoreing checkered deck alot of the times when you allready built and committed your deck to a build combo type that it's not worth trying to pivot to a flush deck and just to keep trying to scale

And with one suit flushes ( I try to go 2 suits ) you can get rammed by the boss with bad luck and no reroll boss blind options

Ignoreing checkered deck being an easy deck I think theirs far better enablers you can work on instead of just going for flushes

[Lieutenant Dan]

My best deck was a two pair / full house. was doing 100k per hand.
don't know if that's any good, but it was good enough

[Kormit the Frag]

the opposite is true too
you have an entire build around pairs, two pairs or high cards and youll be completely useless
you physically dont have enough hands even if you have them at level 8+ to win half the rounds past 6 ante. the game just forces you into flushes, straights, threes and full houses if you even want a chance at winning

[D3k0y]

Originally posted by XsacklunchX:

My best run so far between the demo and release was actually based on 2 pairs. I had the joker for playing exactly 4 cards adding extra coins. I had a play 2 pairs and boost mult joker. I was able to replace a lot of cards into specific numbers like 10 or 6. I wanted to stay away from face cards in case I got the debuff face cards boss. Then I had a bunch of 2 pair planets. It was a lot of fun, tbh.

My best run so far was off pair, beat Crimson with a single hand of two cards. Landed 1 million in points. Granted I was lucky and pulled like 4 Steel cards in hold with the Steel Joker.

One of the best thing for building off pair or high card is except planets, a lot of the jokers will trigger when putting pair into any other play. Full House, funky Flush with a pair, makes it really stronk.

[DoubleByte]

Yeah I think I shoulda given the game more time, flushes definitely fall off later I just hadn't gotten past ante 8 without them.

Just had my first ante 11 game, lost to the 7m small blind. I had 15 aces in the deck, which is probably not regulation lol