MY OPINION: change orange and gold stake to how it used to be

[Hulana]

this perishable and rental doesn't actually add any real difficulty that's why the, then rare achievement for beating gold stake is getting accomplished at record times, now its omg i got good rng that this joker isnt perishable with no real scaling difficulty, i understand you have to make it easuer to keep on the nub player base, but not to gate keep an achievement but i got it it was 3.2% now its getting close to not even having a shiny border i expected it to get that way so thats why im not gatekeeping the achievement but its massive growth since the update that swwapped scalling and debuffs to rng perishables is insane, and now i tell you when i got my first gold stake on the old scaling system felt really good now when i get gold its like a big meh and thanking that i got good rng rather than my own skill to make good combos.

this is just simply my humble opinion

[Hulana]

like i just beat plasma on gold stake and it doesnt even feel like a big accomplishment like it used to when it was scaling difficulty.

[malogoss]

Originally posted by Hulana #riptf2:

like i just beat plasma on gold stake and it doesnt even feel like a big accomplishment like it used to when it was scaling difficulty.

Plasma is a fun deck, especially for white stake endless mode.

But plasma is the weirdest deck when it comes to stake climbing. At least starting at purple and up. It was weird pre patch, it is still weird post patch. So I think any of the 14 other decks has much more weight in the balance of things.

That being said, sadly, I have to agree with most of your first post. New orange and gold stakes don't really make the game tougher, they only make it more annoying. The fact that now, no joker is ever immune to eternal/rental/perishable is a big problem.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3222952297

[Hulana]

yep, i beat plasma deck gold stake took 2 attempts, i hope the devs do something to make it harder tbh, but i doubt it this game picked up too many people that rarely or never picked up a roguelike game so they want to keep the playerbase by making it as easy as they can.

[Hulana]

which is the biggest problem with roguelike games becoming too mainstream really good for the dev they make more money which is good after all the time and effort put in to making a roguelike, but eventually they cave in to all the "crybabies" which im real happy slay the spire never did to an extent

[Draco18s]

Gold stake used to be a miserable restart-grind fest.
No one wants it back. Achievement completion rate has NO BEARING on how balanced or fun it is.

[Ravenous Roxy]

Originally posted by Draco18s:

Gold stake used to be a miserable restart-grind fest.
No one wants it back. Achievement completion rate has NO BEARING on how balanced or fun it is.

It still is, just for a different reason. Bad jokers or good jokers marked with one/two of the debuffs. Wow cannot wait to use this rental [S Tier joker] that i got early. Oh I lost the run cause I could never build up a meaningful economy and lost due to not being able to afford things. Or getting all you good jokers as perishable and never finding a suitable replacement and just falling flat half way through a run. I'm still restart mashing, but now I'm wasting 10-20 minutes per run cause of false security of a good build with the current stakes, instead of realizing the run/seed is bad in ante 1 and restarting in the old stakes.

Also, as OP said, I don't feel enjoyment getting a gold win anymore. I only feel lucky that RNG gave me good and clean jokers. Before, winning gold felt like such a huge accomplishment. My fun in this game forever tanked post update and it just hasn't come back.

[Draco18s]

If you're going to take a rental, make sure you have the econ to support it.
Eg. Rental Mail in Rebate, Trading Card, To the Moon, etc.

You cannot support more than one rental on base economy (and even then I don't recommend it). Perishable, take, use, discard. I ended up with a perishable negative hanging chad and just ran with it, didn't sell it, because with Abstract Joker it was still giving me a +3 mult.

[Ravenous Roxy]

The point is, gold stake is still just mashing restart until you get somewhat decent jokers (strong and lack rental/perishable) to carry you into the mid game. Every joker is marked with 1 or 2 of these stickers so I'm wasting even more time going to midgame in a doomed RNG run rather than mashing restart at ante 1 til I get a solid joker to carry like I did back in the old gold.

More RNG elements to make the game more tedious to deal with.

[srn347]

Mashing restart is not, and never was, in any way necessary to win in gold stake. Even if the first shop has an unpickable buffoon pack (for instance, a rental eternal and a mediocre eternal) -$4 isn't that bad and the run is still quite winnable. If you choose to spam resets (in old or new gold stake), don't blame the game for that, that's 100% on you.

[Ravenous Roxy]

Originally posted by srn347:

Mashing restart is not, and never was, in any way necessary to win in gold stake. Even if the first shop has an unpickable buffoon pack (for instance, a rental eternal and a mediocre eternal) -$4 isn't that bad and the run is still quite winnable. If you choose to spam resets (in old or new gold stake), don't blame the game for that, that's 100% on you.

Getting a decent early game joker (even Jimbo) or even moderate scoring planet card (Flush/Straight/etc.) helps build an early economy by one-shotting the entire first ante. Having to spam more hands to reach 450/600 is still very viable, but the overall success rate is just lower. I also have less econ to work with to get a run going. I would rather just restart early and get something better that could carry ante 1 maybe even 2 if I'm lucky.

[malogoss]

Originally posted by Ravenous Roxy:

Originally posted by srn347:

Mashing restart is not, and never was, in any way necessary to win in gold stake. Even if the first shop has an unpickable buffoon pack (for instance, a rental eternal and a mediocre eternal) -$4 isn't that bad and the run is still quite winnable. If you choose to spam resets (in old or new gold stake), don't blame the game for that, that's 100% on you.

Getting a decent early game joker (even Jimbo) or even moderate scoring planet card (Flush/Straight/etc.) helps build an early economy by one-shotting the entire first ante. Having to spam more hands to reach 450/600 is still very viable, but the overall success rate is just lower. I also have less econ to work with to get a run going. I would rather just restart early and get something better that could carry ante 1 maybe even 2 if I'm lucky.

You just confirmed the point they made.

Now both of you shake hands and be friends, okay? ;)

[korean cookbook]

I like newer Gold + Orange Stake better because they, alongside the other update changes, allow for more non-Joker strategies. Before, it felt like "Play High Card Simulator," since you had less way to find and play good cards or hands. You got less planet scaling and tarots from packs, and it was harder to find the cards/hands needed, making hands that didn't need those (High Card and Pair) the best strats. Plus, some Jokers were almost entirely invalidated (like Hallucination, Red Card, etc).

Now, Jokers are being made worse. Previous snap-picks might be perishable, meaning they can't carry the run forever, or rental, kneecapping your economy if you can't support them, which means needing more gold cards or an econ Joker. And, with Blue Seal buffs (plus the methods they had before), planet-based builds are super viable, giving an alternative to super Joker-heavy runs which focuses on deck manipulation and poker hand scaling.

Plus, rentals allow for neat strategies by themselves. A rental that triggers on blind selection, on in-blind actions, or a shop action, can be bought and sold for net $0 while still giving its effect, like a Cartomancer or a Mail-In Rebate. Rentals in general add a unique level of risk/reward, which is better than "Ante 1 has no good skips? Restart time" gameplay.

Plus, Joker skip tags are less valuable, even with their free shop price tag, since they can be damaged with a perishable or rental. Again, more risk/reward.

[Hulana]

couldnt be more wrong but okay if you think this gold+ is harder not only do statisitcs go against you so does experience this new gold and orange stake is way easier once again proven in statistics so i wont argue this point further :)

[malogoss]

Originally posted by Hulana:

couldnt be more wrong but okay if you think this gold+ is harder not only do statisitcs go against you so does experience this new gold and orange stake is way easier once again proven in statistics so i wont argue this point further :)

Stats? From where, what stats?

[Python Trench-coat]

theres 15 decks beating it with gold stake on one shouldn't be that uncommon of an achievement and ofc it goes up with time, this is a silly criticism.