does the Balatro community not understand what a downswing is?

[gl00m?]

the idea of winning every run is inane and asinine at best - it's clear no one playing this has played poker very well, with strong equity, and ran bad for months of playing optimally.

I understand poker hand building, outs, building for hands etc. - yes a lot of synergy has to come together for it to be a sick run, but each run you can learn how to better prep for scenarios, and take whatever risk in hopes of xyz.

there's a lot of luck involved with cards! that's the nature of it. stop trying to force the game to be something it isn't - this is the more interesting form of video poker, it's luck/gambling in many ways due to the things you need.

yes there are strats to play around with, but man yall are taking a button clicking game to new heights wanting to win every run, it simply won't happen lol

[Winter Wolf]

I would think of it more as a roguelike in that losing is the journey to the win. In which once you have won a game the replayability is in not only increased difficulty but also not being guaranteed to win every game after that.

[Jakkson K]

Yeah dude, it is a roguelike using poker as a skin to sell the mechanics, not a poker video game with deckbuilding added.

As a roguelike it fails at making player skill matter on higher difficulties. Good roguelikes still have potential to win even if you get very unlucky. Even deckbuilding roguelikes like StS and Monster Train don't require a god run to be the minimum to win.

It is a very fun and interesting game and that is why I am sad at how bad they handled difficulty. It isn't even difficult, it is hoping and praying that you win the lottery. Difficulty means that you can overcome it.

[Goblin]

Originally posted by Jakkson K:

Yeah dude, it is a roguelike using poker as a skin to sell the mechanics, not a poker video game with deckbuilding added.

As a roguelike it fails at making player skill matter on higher difficulties. Good roguelikes still have potential to win even if you get very unlucky. Even deckbuilding roguelikes like StS and Monster Train don't require a god run to be the minimum to win.

It is a very fun and interesting game and that is why I am sad at how bad they handled difficulty. It isn't even difficult, it is hoping and praying that you win the lottery. Difficulty means that you can overcome it.

You insist it's A not B, then complain it's bad at being A because it's too much B...
You WANT it to be more roguelite than poker. It isn't, and you're unhappy with that. Meanwhile people who actually wanted the game they got are happy, and judging from the steam reviews that's... 97%.

[Amplify]

Originally posted by Goblin:

Originally posted by Jakkson K:

Yeah dude, it is a roguelike using poker as a skin to sell the mechanics, not a poker video game with deckbuilding added.

As a roguelike it fails at making player skill matter on higher difficulties. Good roguelikes still have potential to win even if you get very unlucky. Even deckbuilding roguelikes like StS and Monster Train don't require a god run to be the minimum to win.

It is a very fun and interesting game and that is why I am sad at how bad they handled difficulty. It isn't even difficult, it is hoping and praying that you win the lottery. Difficulty means that you can overcome it.

You insist it's A not B, then complain it's bad at being A because it's too much B...
You WANT it to be more roguelite than poker. It isn't, and you're unhappy with that. Meanwhile people who actually wanted the game they got are happy, and judging from the steam reviews that's... 97%.

Do you not understand what a game is? Because newsflash: Balatro isn't Poker. It's wearing a Poker skin, it uses Poker themes, but it's a game before it is Poker.

There's a good game past the faults of it, does that mean the faults of the game should never ever be fixed or changed because "that's just how it is!" and it's sat at 97% positive reviews right now?

[Goblin]

Originally posted by Amplify:

Do you not understand what a game is? Because newsflash: Balatro isn't Poker. It's wearing a Poker skin, it uses Poker themes, but it's a game before it is Poker.

There's a good game past the faults of it, does that mean the faults of the game should never ever be fixed or changed because "that's just how it is!" and it's sat at 97% positive reviews right now?

Yes, I know what a game is. I make them :)
It's a poker game. It's not some thin veneer of poker on top. It's the very core foundation everything else is built on top of with derivations from and additions to the basic rules.

The game does have faults. Mostly bugs and instances where wording could be slightly better. The difficulty isn't one of them, so that can't be "fixed" and shouldn't be changed.

[Ronald Brain]

Originally posted by Amplify:

Do you not understand what a game is? Because newsflash: Balatro isn't Poker. It's wearing a Poker skin, it uses Poker themes, but it's a game before it is Poker.

There's a good game past the faults of it, does that mean the faults of the game should never ever be fixed or changed because "that's just how it is!" and it's sat at 97% positive reviews right now?

Newsflash: Blatro sells well despite 3% of the community whines about its alleged unfair difficulty.

We all know this is a GAME, and a game has its RULESET. Just because you aren't happy with the ruleset doesn't mean others think like you. We all know the rule favors The House, so we make do with what the odds give us to "try to win". There is no permanent game over, and unlock is one-and-done. This is what Balatro is like.

[Jakkson K]

It is a newly released game, and like a lot of new releases, it has quite a few faults.
Claiming it is flawless is not true, but claiming its faults overshadow its benefits is also not true.

The fact is, talking about what we don't like gives the developers a better understanding of how to improve and fix as updates go along. I would infact review this game positively, however being an 8/10 doesn't neglect the fact that there is some things wrong with it. If steam used a out of 10 scale, I wouldn't be surprised if the game fell closer to 75% overall.

The fact is, it is good, it is fun, but there is a lot the game can do to make it better, especially for people who enjoy difficult roguelikes, like myself. The roguelike community is the community that will keep playing this for years into the future, provided we actually get the more rewarding style of difficulty we are asking for.

I also don't get your claim. If the difficulty increases were more interesting and less early game punishing, would you not enjoy that? And if you aren't a playing playing for gold stake, then why do you care?

[Gamil]

Originally posted by gl00mer:

the idea of winning every run is inane and asinine at best - it's clear no one playing this has played poker very well, with strong equity, and ran bad for months of playing optimally.

I understand poker hand building, outs, building for hands etc. - yes a lot of synergy has to come together for it to be a sick run, but each run you can learn how to better prep for scenarios, and take whatever risk in hopes of xyz.

there's a lot of luck involved with cards! that's the nature of it. stop trying to force the game to be something it isn't - this is the more interesting form of video poker, it's luck/gambling in many ways due to the things you need.

yes there are strats to play around with, but man yall are taking a button clicking game to new heights wanting to win every run, it simply won't happen lol

A "downswing" shouldn't exist in a game that is supposed to be about skill. Otherwise, why bother playing a run until you have perfect conditions to start with? Why bother playing unseeded runs at all?

[LoneHer0]

Having successfully finished the final Stake mechanic at least once, I think it's completely understandable to see flaws in the game and especially the difficulty choices. That 70% - 90% chance that you normally have (depending on the deck's gameplan) is now decreased substantially, and it's in manners that you can't really do much about besides hope that the stars align really quickly now that everything scales fast.

And here's the thing about that, regardless of it being a part of poker, it's just done in a way that is simply not fun. I literally have 0 desire to try doing higher stakes with any deck (unless it's trying to test stuff with eternal jokers). Instead of like testing your mastery to see if you can now get up to Ante 11 or something, it's just taking away/limiting what you can do instead and applying pressure on your luck.

The rest of the game is still great; It's just that it feels like wasted potential knowing how fun the game normally is when it's still playing with luck that isn't too oppressive.

[Keno]

the problem is game is seed base RNG and yes there are a lot seed with dead end at high stake no matter you go for economy or push deck value.

like it or hate it, i don't think dev can trim down to only winable seed since the combination in card deck / round / boss and shop combination are very bloat compare to other deck building game that has far less variables.

(kind of remind me the game called Ring of Pain where optimal is not always the right choice but you need to push your luck at highest difficulty)

[Jakkson K]

Originally posted by Keno:

the problem is game is seed base RNG and yes there are a lot seed with dead end at high stake no matter you go for economy or push deck value.

like it or hate it, i don't think dev can trim down to only winable seed since the combination in card deck / round / boss and shop combination are very bloat compare to other deck building game that has far less variables.

(kind of remind me the game called Ring of Pain where optimal is not always the right choice but you need to push your luck at highest difficulty)

the devs don't need to trim un-winnable seeds if they make it so there is less reliance on having a good seed in the first place. StS is seed based and I don't think there is such a thing as a purely unwinnable seed. And seeds in StS are just as complicated if not more so than here.

[malogoss]

Originally posted by Jakkson K:

StS is seed based and I don't think there is such a thing as a purely unwinnable seed.

Google disagrees.

[Jakkson K]

Originally posted by malogoss:

Originally posted by Jakkson K:

StS is seed based and I don't think there is such a thing as a purely unwinnable seed.

Google disagrees.

Ok, after research it looks like there are seeds that are almost unwinnable, but they are not only so rare it took years find find proof they exist, but also identifiable at soon as you start if you know what to look out for.

But Gold Stake seeds are likely 50% or more purely unwinnable. Or at least you can't be expected to win them without knowledge of the seed.

I strongly believe that games should try their damnedest to prevent unwinnable seeds from existing.

[Amplify]

Originally posted by Goblin:

Originally posted by Amplify:

Do you not understand what a game is? Because newsflash: Balatro isn't Poker. It's wearing a Poker skin, it uses Poker themes, but it's a game before it is Poker.

There's a good game past the faults of it, does that mean the faults of the game should never ever be fixed or changed because "that's just how it is!" and it's sat at 97% positive reviews right now?

Yes, I know what a game is. I make them :)
It's a poker game. It's not some thin veneer of poker on top. It's the very core foundation everything else is built on top of with derivations from and additions to the basic rules.

The game does have faults. Mostly bugs and instances where wording could be slightly better. The difficulty isn't one of them, so that can't be "fixed" and shouldn't be changed.

Okay very simple, let's run a test using you and anybody who thinks like you:
1. Put a deck of cards by your computer.
2. Shuffle the deck.
3. Open Balatro.
4. While on the main menu, draw a card from the deck.
5. If it is not an Ace, put the card back, close the game, and go back to step 2.

If you enjoy doing this, then I have successfully made the game more fun for all of you because I've added more poker to this poker game for you.
If you do not enjoy doing this for any reason, or don't want to do it every single time you want to open the game, then you admit that I am right.

It really is that simple. If you argue to the contrary or don't respond to this post, you admit that I am right. Also you're not a successful game developer, don't kid yourself.

[Ronald Brain]

Originally posted by Amplify:

Okay very simple, let's run a test using you and anybody who thinks like you:
1. Put a deck of cards by your computer.
2. Shuffle the deck.
3. Open Balatro.
4. While on the main menu, draw a card from the deck.
5. If it is not an Ace, put the card back, close the game, and go back to step 2.

If you enjoy doing this, then I have successfully made the game more fun for all of you because I've added more poker to this poker game for you.
If you do not enjoy doing this for any reason, or don't want to do it every single time you want to open the game, then you admit that I am right.

It really is that simple. If you argue to the contrary or don't respond to this post, you admit that I am right. Also you're not a successful game developer, don't kid yourself.

People are already doing that. Staying at Ante 1 blind, and hold R until they get "Shop has a Polychrome" tag on small or big blind.

Successful dev or not, Goblin CAN have fun with the game despite its issues, and so are the rest of 97% of people who enjoyed it.