Are multiple strategies viable?

[Cyberpunk22]

Like building for flush, pairs, etc. or the diversity of strategies is limited?

[Amplify]

Pretty limitless depending on what Jokers you get.

Honestly though, the strongest hand if you're playing right is either Pair or High Card.

[sab0t]

i have won with specializations in every type of hand except for flush house. and i've also won with builds that don't actually specialize on a specific hand, as well. i think there are a few hands that are natural to gravitate towards when people first start playing, like flush and full house, but you can definitely, definitely make incredible builds out of pretty much anything. i've had 2 runs where i was eventually able to play royal flushes every single hand, and 1 run where i was playing flush five hands that were leveled up super high.

editing to add - i'm not suggesting flush house isn't viable, either. just hasn't happened for me yet. i tend to build around straights most often.

[Cyberpunk22]

Originally posted by Amplify:

Pretty limitless depending on what Jokers you get.

Honestly though, the strongest hand if you're playing right is either Pair or High Card.

But the discrepancy of these hands is huge? And you change your strategy early with jokers? Like early you get something that makes you go all in on flushes for example?

[Cyberpunk22]

Originally posted by sab0t:

i have won with specializations in every type of hand except for flush house. and i've also won with builds that don't actually specialize on a specific hand, as well. i think there are a few hands that are natural to gravitate towards when people first start playing, like flush and full house, but you can definitely, definitely make incredible builds out of pretty much anything. i've had 2 runs where i was eventually able to play royal flushes every single hand, and 1 run where i was playing flush five hands that were leveled up super high.

editing to add - i'm not suggesting flush house isn't viable, either. just hasn't happened for me yet. i tend to build around straights most often.

Sounds cool! But this is something you decide before starting a game or you adapt based on the things you get during the run?

[A bear]

Early difficulties you can build around any hand. Higher stakes makes the more complex hands unreliable so boosting the small ones seems like the most consistent way to win. Most of the time you adapt as the run progresses depending on what is offered to you.

[sab0t]

Originally posted by Cyberpunk22:

Sounds cool! But this is something you decide before starting a game or you adapt based on the things you get during the run?

adapting to what you get is really important. on the lower difficulty stakes there is quite a bit more flexibility, but on the higher stakes, you don't have as much income, and you have less discards / hands which means you have to be very adaptable. it can be really satisfying, like let's say your first joker focuses on high cards, so you start focusing on converting numbered cards into face cards. but then you hit a boss that debuffs face cards and the score required to beat it is pretty high. you can risk going all in and trying to beat it with what you've got (which is satisfying when it works), or you can adapt, maybe sell the face card joker and buy something else, or use some tarot / spectral and convert your face cards for a crucial hand. very very satisfying when you can adapt and win.

[A bear]

Growth jokers really shine the higher up you go as well, I rarely used them on the early stakes, but once it gets tougher they can keep a run going pretty well.

[Cigaretteofdeath]

I won like 6 or 7 rounds in total now and all of them based on flushes. Most easiest hand to build strong hands with for my (short) experience now.

[Not a summoner]

For Ante 8 I think all hand builds are viable. I think the only hand I haven't actually done is a two pair build and that one is definitely possible with the pants.

I think flushes are the easiest though.

[SpaceCat]

At lower stakes, flushes are viable and pretty consistent. At higher stakes, I think pair and high card are by far the easiest to win at, say, purple-gold.

As far as what that means for joker choices, well, I wouldn't pick a flush multiplier on gold on the early antes as it just doesn't do enough with 2 discards and a smaller hand--it can, but if you miss your flush(es), you just die, and even if you hit them, you probably didn't clear the blind without burning 2-3 hands (money).

Compare that (for instance) to ripped joker (+20 mult for 3 cards or less) and you can win basically all of the early antes in 1 hand. It pays for itself quickly.

On gold stakes I'm looking for the ripped joker, any early decent +chips joker, money engines, and a few particularly good tech cards (for me off the top of my head I like burnt joker, space joker, burglar...) Anything to make the first few antes doable in 1-2 hands so I can get into ante 3-4 with at least 30 bucks and maybe a semblance of direction.

[brickey.8]

Any hand CAN be central to your strategy if you get a strong joker for it early on, and so can a generalist play-whatever-you've-got build. But if you're trying to rely on planets for scaling and/or decide what to spend a planet on, Flush and Full House are the only ones that scale well enough to be useful without hand-specific jokers or a super-trimmed deck.

So your build is usually just defined by whatever you get a strong joker for first, and if you get a lot of planets before you get a good joker your build will be Flush or Full House. Pivoting late in a run is possible if you rely on jokers but not on planets.

Pair and high card as your actual scoring hands are pretty rare except in the endgame/endless mode. They mostly rely on having jokers that trigger off held cards and/or lots of steel cards. However there are many jokers where it can be valuable to throw away hands on a High Card that won't score significant points. In endless mode, High Card with held-card bonuses is pretty much the only build that can get past ante 11 or 12.

[Shot_Trip]

Originally posted by Cyberpunk22:

Originally posted by sab0t:

i have won with specializations in every type of hand except for flush house. and i've also won with builds that don't actually specialize on a specific hand, as well. i think there are a few hands that are natural to gravitate towards when people first start playing, like flush and full house, but you can definitely, definitely make incredible builds out of pretty much anything. i've had 2 runs where i was eventually able to play royal flushes every single hand, and 1 run where i was playing flush five hands that were leveled up super high.

editing to add - i'm not suggesting flush house isn't viable, either. just hasn't happened for me yet. i tend to build around straights most often.

Sounds cool! But this is something you decide before starting a game or you adapt based on the things you get during the run?

It depends. For example, one midgame deck (mifdgame in terms of metaprogression) is the CHeckered Deck, which has only two suits - Hearts and Spades, IIRC. This deck obviously leans into flushes a lot, but it also has the downside of being kneecapped by certain bosses that kill a suit. So picking the Checkered deck means you want to go hard flush. But other decks are more general, like the red and blue decks (discard more cards / play more hands) or the yellow deck, which starts with more money for shops.

Almost any hand has a whole network of Jokers supporting it, and some card *types* do too - a significant number of Jokers are about whether or not something's a face card.