Four of a kind does not contain two pair?

[A Really Good Scone]

That seems like an oversight. Four of a kind doesn't trigger "contains a two pair" cards, when, clearly it does.

I'm honestly kind of surprised that an oversight like that would make it through, considering how thorough this game is. Hopefully it can be fixed in a patch soon!

[Khorne Daddy]

Originally posted by A Really Good Scone:

Originally posted by malogoss:

2 pairs is defined as one pair of cards plus one pair of cards of a DIFFERENT rank.

Following that kind of logic

The logic of following the definition of what a poker hand is? You are aware that, besides the secret hands, this has all been established and defined before Balatro came out?

[WZ]

Put it this way, if you got four queens, you've got two pairs, sure, but you do not meet the requirements for the "two pair" hand. To qualify for "two pair" they need to be of different rank. Hence why a full house contains a two-pair but a four-of-a-kind does not.

[Teie]

I think it's quite obvious as to why in this specific instance it is that way. Four of a Kind is four cards of the same value. It is its own hand. Two Pairs is Two Pairs. They have to be of different value. Since it's harder to get Four of a Kind, it was made into what it is - a separate hand [unique hand] with much higher value. However, Five of a Kind does contain Four of a Kind, Three of a Kind and Pair...but not Two Pairs. Confused? Same idea.

[Teie]

Originally posted by its ben:

Is there a list somewhere of what hands are "contained" in what other hands? I found this really confusing on my first couple runs and have just avoided the mechanic, using the exact hand rather than guessing when other hands might "contain" it

High card: Contained in any hand?
Pair: Contained in 2 pair, full house, 3 of a kind, 4 of a kind?
Two pair: Contained in full house?

etc. these are just my speculation, I have no idea, which is why I'm asking

You got this! It's just that Two Pairs always seem to confuse players at first. The rest are pretty much common sense and you got the idea right.

P.S There are no Jokers that use [High Card] as a specific condition, that would be too simple. But if there were such, yeah, it would apply to any hand. So, it is that simple.

P.P.S Pair Joker cards work with: Pair, Two Pairs, Full House, Three of a Kind, Four of a Kind, Five of a Kind, Flush Five, and regular Flush (if you happen to have a Pair in a Flush which is possible if you copy too many cards of the same suit). Pair Joker cards are the most versitile but typically offer the lowest reward compared to other card specific Jokers.

[Ronald Brain]

Originally posted by its ben:

Is there a list somewhere of what hands are "contained" in what other hands? I found this really confusing on my first couple runs and have just avoided the mechanic, using the exact hand rather than guessing when other hands might "contain" it

High card: Contained in any hand?
Pair: Contained in 2 pair, full house, 3 of a kind, 4 of a kind?
Two pair: Contained in full house?

and what does a flush contain? Like if you had a flush with 2 pair in it, would it "contain" a 2 pair?

etc. these are just my speculation, I have no idea, which is why I'm asking (and it would be really nice if the UI could communicate this to us)

There is only so much Localthunk could do with the ingame language, everyone can't seem to read nowadays it's hilarious to see all these bug report topic. Anyways, the simple break down is "Higher hand ALWAYS contains the lower hand". Unless you're completely out of the loop, it won't be very hard to figure out.

A simple breakdown:
-Flush Five: Contains Flush, 4oak, 3oak, Pair.
-Flush House: Contains Flush, 3oak, 2 Pairs, Pair.
-Straight Flush: Contains Flush.
-Any Flush that has 3 cards of the same rank: Contains Flush, 3oak, Pair.
-Any Flush that has 2 cards of the same rank: Contains Flush, Pair.
-Full House: 3oak, Contains 2 Pairs, Pair.
-Three of a Kind: Contains Pair.
-Two Pairs: Contains Pair.

Exception: A Flush that contains 4 cards of the same rank will become Four of a Kind, NOT a Flush.

Advanced technique with Four Finger:
-A Straight Flush is formed if the hand contains a Flush AND a Straight. This is done by combining 4 card in sequence with a fifth card in such as way that you have 4 card of the same suit. For example: 3H-4H-5C-6H plus any other Heart card will form a Straight Flush with Four Finger.

[Cupcake]

Originally posted by A Really Good Scone:

Originally posted by malogoss:

2 pairs is defined as one pair of cards plus one pair of cards of a DIFFERENT rank.

Following that kind of logic, a straight wouldn't be contained in a straight flush, because a straight if 5 cards in a sequence of a DIFFERENT suit.

The game uses inclusive instead of exclusive definitions seemingly everywhere else, so it really should be changed.

That would make sense if that was how a straight was defined. Just read the in-game descriptions. A straight is "five cards in a row (consecutive ranks)." It never mentions that the cards are different suits, they can be any suit. A two pair is "two pairs of cards with different ranks." I think it's pretty clear that this is the intended interaction.

Would you also argue that a flush house is not a full house because a full house requires different suits? I'd think clearly not, a full house does not indicate anything about what suits the cards have to be.

[Arancil]

Originally posted by A Really Good Scone:

Originally posted by malogoss:

2 pairs is defined as one pair of cards plus one pair of cards of a DIFFERENT rank.

Following that kind of logic, a straight wouldn't be contained in a straight flush, because a straight if 5 cards in a sequence of a DIFFERENT suit.

The game uses inclusive instead of exclusive definitions seemingly everywhere else, so it really should be changed.

I have no idea why people are acting like smug ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ in response to this. Your reasoning is solid. We describe two pairs the way we do (different ranks) because four of a kind is a hand type, and it's simply easier to explain it by saying something about different rank to make it clear in the context of a setting where four of a kind exists. It's not because two pair would somehow HAVE to be different ranks should four of a kind not be a hand type. If I have a hand of four jacks and a queen, and I ask people to take cards and make sets of pairs from it, would they take out one pair of jacks and then go "IT'S IMPOSSIBLE TO MAKE MORE PAIRS"?

The reason we don't bother defining something like "pair" as "two cards that share a rank, with none of the other cards sharing rank with any other cards, and a minimum of two suits amongst the five cards" is because it's superfluous. It IS the practical definition of a pair, but we skip the explanation given that we know the higher hands override it.

But we just use convenient, common ways to describe poker hands from top to bottom, and then just pretend we erase the other hands from the rulebook when evaluating the concept of "contains".

I think it's reasonable to not define it as "contains", but it seems completely obvious that it would be reasonable to go the other way as well. But that's just speaking as a programmer who has studied formal logic and has been working with classification systems for years, so what do I know.

Edit: What I'm discussing isn't if it applies based on in-game definition, in-game definition of two pairs is CLEAR, I'm arguing about whether THAT definition could reasonably have been set differently.

[Crane]

dumb