Wheel of fortune

[Jerinder]

1 of 4 chance.

Nope! Nope! Nope! Nope! Nope! Nope! Nope! Nope! Nope! Nope! Nope! Nope! Nope! Nope!

Are we sure that it's really a 1 in 4 chance?

[Jerinder]

Originally posted by Amplify:

One thing that people should understand about the RNG in this game: It's seeded.

Each seed is already pre-determined which number Wheel of Fortune(s) will succeed, like maybe it's the 2nd, 7th, 8th, 15th, etc, along with which joker will get the buff. There are ways to savescum and check if your next wheel will succeed or not, but if the 1st wheel fails it will fail no matter how many times you retry it. I've tested this a lot.

Wow that is really neat, thank you.

[Amplify]

Originally posted by Jerinder Singh:

Originally posted by Amplify:

One thing that people should understand about the RNG in this game: It's seeded.

Each seed is already pre-determined which number Wheel of Fortune(s) will succeed, like maybe it's the 2nd, 7th, 8th, 15th, etc, along with which joker will get the buff. There are ways to savescum and check if your next wheel will succeed or not, but if the 1st wheel fails it will fail no matter how many times you retry it. I've tested this a lot.

Wow that is really neat, thank you.

Yeah, here's a pic from when I had 11 wheels at the same time. I used all of them, reloaded and tried like a dozen times in different ways with different joker orderings. It's the same every time, same for what joker you'll get next from using a Judgement tarot.
https://files.catbox.moe/m7mzci.jpg

If you go back to the main menu before the 'state' changes, like a new hand is played / discard done / blind started / pack is bought / pack finished closing and goes back to the shop / etc and then re-enter the game, it won't have saved the smaller changes like the WoF or Judgement joker result. That's how to savescum for the things that can be savescummed.

[Smokey]

+2

[smpsnja]

get the joker which is green and has a dice on it. this increases the possibility from 1 in 4 too 2 in 4. in a challenge you have two of these and can get wheel of fortune card paying out 3 out of 4 times

[Birck]

Originally posted by Amplify:

One thing that people should understand about the RNG in this game: It's seeded.

Each seed is already pre-determined which number Wheel of Fortune(s) will succeed, like maybe it's the 2nd, 7th, 8th, 15th, etc, along with which joker will get the buff. There are ways to savescum and check if your next wheel will succeed or not, but if the 1st wheel fails it will fail no matter how many times you retry it. I've tested this a lot.

I think most of these rogue games do that stuff, if you have say a 50% chance to dodge an attack in a combat focused rogue many of the times it will be set to where you dodge once and then get hit.

It won't be a 50/50 coin toss each time.

[Winter Wolf]

Ive definitely had it proc multiple times in a run. Sometimes one after the other. Random is a pita.

[malogoss]

Originally posted by smpsnja:

get the joker which is green and has a dice on it. this increases the possibility from 1 in 4 too 2 in 4. in a challenge you have two of these and can get wheel of fortune card paying out 3 out of 4 times

Oops! all 6's joker DOUBLES the odds. If you have 2 such jokers, the WoF will always work. The same way, in that same challenge, your glass cards are guaranteed to break if they score. 1 out of 4 becomes 4 out of 4.

[Goblin]

Originally posted by shadowlord:

It doesn't feel like there is an equal chance of foil, holographic or polychrome, which might be how it is supposed to be. I get foil or holographic more often than polychrome, anyone have any info on this?

It rolls a floating point number between 0 and 1, then checks in order if it's greater than (1 - rarity).
For polychrome, it has to roll at least 0.85
For Holographic, it has to roll at least 0.5
Else, it becomes Foil. Technically it says it has to roll higher than 1 - 1.

So basically, 50% chance of Foil, 35% chance of Holographic, and 15% chance of Polychrome. These ratios are actually the same for rarities in the shop. Except there you have a chance of getting a Negative as well, which eats into the Polychrome chances.

[eddymitchel]

"but if the 1st wheel fails it will fail no matter how many times you retry it. I've tested this a lot"

you're talking sh*t, the seed doesn't affect the probabilities of the events in any way

you've each time 1/4 chance of success no mater what happened before

[Goblin]

Originally posted by eddymitchel:

"but if the 1st wheel fails it will fail no matter how many times you retry it. I've tested this a lot"

you're talking sh*t, the seed doesn't affect the probabilities of the events in any way

you've each time 1/4 chance of success no mater what happened before

Wrong. If you get a WoF in the first shop and it's a nope, then replay the seed, the same WoF will show up and will again be a nope. Every time. And if you skip it and buy one later, that will be the same nope you'd have gotten the first time. This is 100% true.
Almost all RNG is tied to the seed (and sometimes also ante) perfectly, and the instances that aren't are considered bugs and get fixed when LocalThunk becomes aware of them. Such as this patchnote from 1.0.0k:
- Fixed bug where enhancement/seal in standard pack were not tied to the Ante in seeded run

[Amplify]

Originally posted by eddymitchel:

"but if the 1st wheel fails it will fail no matter how many times you retry it. I've tested this a lot"

you're talking sh*t, the seed doesn't affect the probabilities of the events in any way

you've each time 1/4 chance of success no mater what happened before

I had 10 Wheels, and 4 unenhaced jokers.
I used up all 10 wheels, observed which jokers gained effects and which effects they gained, as well as noted the order they gained them in.
I reloaded, then used all the wheels again.
I repeated this a dozen times, while changing the order of the jokers.
Every single time, the same wheel number gave the same joker the same effects no matter how I changed the ordering.
With my seed, the 3rd wheel always gave me holo on my blueprint. The 4th one gave foil on my Brainstorm. The 6th one gave me foil on my Fortune Teller. The 9th one gave me poly on my Stuntman. Going to a new round or anything else does not re-roll the RNG.
This was infinitely repeatable, this is also not the only time I've tested this, I have tried this extensively.
https://files.catbox.moe/m7mzci.jpg
https://files.catbox.moe/v89cn2.jpg

Now, there are two possibilities here:
1. I hit a one in however many quadrillion chance that all my wheels just magically happened to roll identical results every single time over all my tests and this is simply incredible luck.
2. Things work exactly how I said.

You don't even have to take my word for it, you can easily test it too! Simply go back to the main menu after using a wheel and when you resume the run the wheel won't be used up. Try your own tests ten times, a hundred times, a thousand times or however many will satisfy you. If the first wheel of a seed will fail, then ALL wheels will fail until you've used that failure and progressed. Ignoring it and using the next wheel you see won't change things.

[shadowlord]

Originally posted by Goblin:

Originally posted by shadowlord:

It doesn't feel like there is an equal chance of foil, holographic or polychrome, which might be how it is supposed to be. I get foil or holographic more often than polychrome, anyone have any info on this?

It rolls a floating point number between 0 and 1, then checks in order if it's greater than (1 - rarity).
For polychrome, it has to roll at least 0.85
For Holographic, it has to roll at least 0.5
Else, it becomes Foil. Technically it says it has to roll higher than 1 - 1.

So basically, 50% chance of Foil, 35% chance of Holographic, and 15% chance of Polychrome. These ratios are actually the same for rarities in the shop. Except there you have a chance of getting a Negative as well, which eats into the Polychrome chances.

Thanks for this info, very interesting. Can I please ask where you got access to the source code and if it is publicly available?

[Goblin]

Originally posted by shadowlord:

Thanks for this info, very interesting. Can I please ask where you got access to the source code and if it is publicly available?

LOVE games aren't compiled like C++ for instance is, they're interpreted at runtime like java. So they contain their source code, and much like java games you can just unzip the executable to get the code.

[shadowlord]

Originally posted by Goblin:

Originally posted by shadowlord:

Thanks for this info, very interesting. Can I please ask where you got access to the source code and if it is publicly available?

LOVE games aren't compiled like C++ for instance is, they're interpreted at runtime like java. So they contain their source code, and much like java games you can just unzip the executable to get the code.

I see, I'll have a peek at the code, as I'm an occasional hobbyist game dev myself. I'm not familiar with LOVE or Lua, but I will probably be able to get the gist of some things.

[S♥ShiMe]

Originally posted by eddymitchel:

"but if the 1st wheel fails it will fail no matter how many times you retry it. I've tested this a lot"

you're talking sh*t, the seed doesn't affect the probabilities of the events in any way

you've each time 1/4 chance of success no mater what happened before

i think Seed might control and set the outcome. In the DEMO version, the spectral card that gives effects to card is random card(now is select the card). You can run a seed where the spectral will ONLY effect the SAME card no matter what you do.