[Story discussion] My view points, questions and explanations [SPOILER!]

[(Ƨ)ǢƗƝƮ]

So I’ve finished the game once and now doing the recursion, I think the game is a masterpiece. I decide to open a thread just for people who have only recently finished the game and like to discuss its story. I’m going to give my point of view and I’m not very good at English so don’t blame me too badly :)

First of all I’m telling my personal thoughts and questions, you may discuss here and tell either you agree or not and why, also I would like to know if there is any answer for the questions I’m wondering to myself. I will also state the ideas that are not mine but I agree on using “[]” without mentioning the sources because I can’t remember all of them

And by the way, I’ve been thinking about the story a lot and I’ve forgot something too, I’ll update this thread if I recall something xD

- What is the transistor?
My guess is that the Camerata used to have it to control the Process and maybe they took it out of the Cradle and just before the game starts, they went out to collect the souls they wanted. They failed to kill Red and even lost their transistor so they lost control over the Process
[The Process is just doing its job, they do what they are ordered and it’s the Camerata who messes things up.] Because considering what Royce had said at the near end of the game, the Camerata got bored of people changing everything by their votes.

That first question leads to 2 other questions:
- Who is Blue?
- The Cradle? Cloudbank city? The Country? What are those? It seems to be clear that Cloudbank is a virtual city, so how the people are born and die there? Was it necessary for the Camerata to “collect souls” in order to “balance the number of citizens?”

The first question is a tough one. Take a closer look at Blue, who is he? I’m starting to think he’s the bad guy, even though the way we are told the story seems to deny that. He MAY be the bad guy because:
+ His info is not stored inside the transistor which makes him mysterious.
+ Who knows if he intentionally got stabbed by the transistor or not
+ He seems to know well what was going on and guided Red. It makes me think that he had a plan and it was necessary for him to be inside the transistor, but he would need someone to do the physical jobs for him, so Red was the perfect one. All the sweet things he does to Red don’t have to be truthful xD
Anyway, he’s a good guy as the game shows us, sometimes he confuses me but the cutscene before Sybil boss fight shows me that he’s just an ordinary guy who was there at Red’s concert. When Red was going to be killed, he saved her (looks like a hysteric fan boy here xD ) and after being trapped inside the transistor, he found himself some powers and used them to help Red.
-> It’s hard to say if Blue is a “random” guy or a “certain” guy, good or bad, he’s somewhat in-between. What’s your opinion?


The next question is related to the last fight that I find a bit confusing. As you can see, just before Red meets Royce having a transistor for himself, she put her transistor (the one that has Blue inside, saying he loves her) and both of them were teleported to a place where the last fight took place. I think they were sent inside the Cradle, which is the ORIGIN of the transistor ( you can see a bunch of transistors there), also, there are containers that keep the bodies of the people absorbed into Red’s transistor. Maybe the people were not kept inside the transistor, but instead, inside the Cradle ( I remember there was a point when Blue told Red that he sees nobody but when he looked at the sky, he sees Red.) And maybe Royce found himself a transistor inside the Cradle as well ( duh, there were like hundreds of them, why wouldn’t he just take one)
[Cloudbank is a virtual city, there’re many evidences that can prove it] The Cradle may literally mean “ a cradle “ for citizens of Cloudbank since the city is virtual, they may have never lived and they’ve always been living in a cradle, just like babies. One more thing, if you’ve noticed, is that Royce told Red that THE TRANSISTOR IS LIKE THE COUNTRY, YOU CAN GET IN BUT YOU CAN’T GET OUT. But guess what, he didn’t mention the Cradle xD So I think the last fight was inside the Cradle, the winner would get out of it and rebuild Cloudbank, the transistor is like the bridge between Cloudbank and the Cradle. Ehm.. About The Country, I guess it can either be a way Cloudbank citizens encourage themselves not to fear death or it may be some place that I have no idea, but I don’t think the Cradle and the Country is the same place. Blue several times told Red to “skip town”, that makes me wonder: why did he say “skip” but not “abandon” ? Was it like you skip something to get to something else? Is that the Country? Like yeah, “city” and “country”.. seems legit ._.
Now’s the discussion of the ending: Red commits suicide. According to what I’ve said above, it’s definitely NOT a suicide, but whether Red had realized or not that Cloudbank is a virtual city ( like a world in minecraft :D weeeee ^^ ) committing suicide would lead her to one of these places :
+ Inside the transistor (which seems to happen) with Blue (yay! Happy ending)
+ To the Cradle, inside those ugly containers xD
+ To the Country, maybe Blue is there, maybe not, it’s confusing.

[It’s boring to live alone in Cloudbank/ she tried everything to get Blue out of the transistor but nothing worked/ she felt empty after trying so hard to set things back to normal but in the end, Cloudbank vanished] Those might be something you’d like to believe in.

BUT

What about the recursion? O.o Isn’t it over yet? Red is living happily with Blue, Cloudbank is now a blank paper, though which is the real world is not sure but forget it. [ You may look for the definition of “recursion” to understand it if you don’t, but basically it’s repeat “X” over 9000 times]
I think that happens inside the transistor, like on one beautiful morning, Red tells Blue : “hey, I’m bored, let’s do the “kick Royce’s ♥♥♥” again”. The game allows the player to choose either to “recurse” or to “exit to shell” which is not forced, but what if the whole story is programmed to repeat itself and [Royce has realized it when he says the first sentence at the beginning of recursions]. Then how does it happen? Isn’t Red and Blue living happily? Or is it like : - Hi.. Hey… “RECURSE” xD

Anyway, I don’t think the story is that complicated as we – players think it is, but it’s fun to discuss it don’t you think? ;) Or at least to find someone who is also interested in finding messages from the game or who cried so much because of the “onions at the end of the game”
Combining all the elements, I can say: Transistor game is action genre, Transistor's story is sci-fi genre and the story of Blue+Red is romance ( just listen to the credit song "paper boats" it's so touching :'( ) So i want to say: this game is a true piece of art :D anybody should play it. Perhaps that's all what the developers want us to think, not imagining and finding every little defects
In conclusion, I think there IS a possibility that there will be transistor 2 ( I’m just hoping, don’t believe me :O ) because:
- The story still has much to uncover
- Many people like to have more games from the developers, also for people like me, I love the music and would really like to listen to some of Red’s songs :D
- Red is hot ( yes, I decided to play this game because of that)
Some suggestion may be :
- On “N”th time fighting with Red, Royce has a good mood and beats her-> no more recursions-> transistor 2
- One lucky “survivor” inside Cloudbank city finds Red and the transistor, takes it and rebuilds the city
- Something happens in the Cradle or the Country that changes Cloudbank and the transistor or whatever ( like the people who were absorbed into the transistor finds the couple or something like that)

Ugh.. I spent 1.5 hours writing this so please don’t be mean to me :(

[walranium]

Wow, you really encapsulated a lot of the ideas from the game into that post. I thoroughly enjoyed reading it, even though I probably have a different view on some of the items than you do. I'm going to give my views on some of this, and some of it will be very similar to what you said.

I don't have time now to answer all of your points, so I'll just pick a couple of points for now and give my views on them:

"What is the Transistor?"

The Transistor is a conduit with which one can control The Process (although I was never positive if this was an absolute control or partial control). Royce is the one who "found" the Transistor (more on that later), and initially formed the Camerata with Grant Kendrell. Both of them were disillusioned by the unchecked populism of Cloudbank, seeing the populace vote to tear things down, only to eventually want to rebuild the original structure that was torn down years before. Their motives were different, as Grant was disillusioned because he believed he knew what was best for Cloudbank, only to see the general public vote in a different directon. Royce, meanwhile, was frustrated to see his work circle back on itself, and became more frustrated when he tried to build lasting pieces of architecture that would be beyond public reproach and found that these buildings were less popular than the pieces that were part of the cycle.

When the Camerata lost control of the Transistor during their failed attack on Red, they lost control of the process (Royce was likely the only person who truly "understood" what the Transistor/Process were). Left to it's own devices, the Process seemed to be intent on building/rebuilding/rebuilding/etc, basically a self preservation of what it had been doing prior to Royce using the Transistor. Now, however, it seemed to view people like a virus within the infrastructure and attempted to eliminate it so it could continue working unimpeded.

Now, as far as Royce "finding" the Transistor, there are a few theories that I've seen in other threads, but the two I saw most often were:
1. Royce, while delving through the code of the process, literally found the physical object of The Transistor
2. Royce metaphorically stumbled across the code that would allow him to be able to control The Process, and the Transistor as we see it is a physical shell built to harness the power of the code.

I see it somewhat like point 2, in that Royce had what is sometimes referred to as a "stroke of genius," discovering the ability to control the process and then finding ways to harness it. Granted, even Royce says something to the effect of "maybe I didn't find the key to The Process, but rather The Process found me." It seems possible that The Process, being essentially the connective tissue of the world that the game takes place in, was able to "nudge" Royce in the direction of the Transistor.


...Well, that took me a while to write as well, so I think I'll come back and see if I can parse a few more things tonight when I'm not on my lunch break ;) I have a lot of ideas about the game, although I know many of them don't have near enough evidence to back them up!

[Onyx]

Well, this looks like an interesting conversation. Mind if I add my two cents and ask some questions myself?

I would say your assesment of the Transistor itself is correct, and seems to outline the general story of the game as well. And Walrus, you've created an excellent summary.

Personally I feel like the game never properly addresses whether Cloudbank is fully virtual or not. It may actually be a physical place that is simply so heavily imbued with technology that at times it seems virtual, taking on highly computer-like characteristics. Consider the case of the Backdoors. They seem to be a straight-up simulation, suggesting it's possible to create highly immersive virtual worlds. Upon exiting it, sometimes Mr. Nobody will remark that you're heading "back to the real world", which suggests some amount of physical legitimacy, but it doesn't fully rule out Cloudbank being virtual either.

I think a lot of players still sort of fumble around exactly what the Camerata were doing, though. I like to simplify it this way:

The Camerata were a group that wanted to take control of Cloudbank.

Though they harboured an altruistic goal, to reshape the city in to what would be best for all, they still placed their opinions and ideals above everyone else's, and thought they they knew what people wanted better than the people themselves. Except, they understood what they were doing, too, and that's why they needed to feed people to the Transistor. So they could get other people who also knew what the city needed, understood things the Camerata didn't. And the Camerata could still retain ultimate control, figuratively and literally wielding these people within the Transistor instead of risking letting them in to their group.

As for Mr. Nobody (I must admit, Blue is an attractive nickname for him), personally I see no reason to assume his sentiments were anything other than sincere. He wanted to protect Red, and when he did so by getting impaled with the transistor instead of her, essentially causing the Transistor to glitch out, he royally screwed up the Camerata's plans, plans he seems to have no prior knowledge of. Without the Transistor, the process slipped out of the Camerata's control, and that was that. An unfortunate series of coincidences.

I have to admit, I have never quite understood why some people find Red's 'suicide' to be ambiguous or confusing. I'm strongly of the opinion that Blue's "death" is supposed to be an example of normal Transistor functioning: get stabbed with Transistor, Transistor sucks up your soul. And that as such, Red decided at the end of the game to join the people she knew (primarily Blue) inside the Transistor rather than to engage in the empty excercise of rebuilding Cloudbank without them. Hence the scene at the end of the credits, which I suspect is supposed to be current, and not one of the flashbacks from the rest of the credits.

"The Country" is interesting, and vague, and I think it's worth analyzing how it's presented to us over the course of the story. At first, it seems we're expected to take it at face value, as people talking about leaving the city for a rural geographical location. Then, with the conversation with Asher, it's presented as a euphemism for death. By the end of the game though, with the location of the fight with Royce, and the scene of Red meeting Blue again at the end of the credits, plus the game over screen, it seems like The Country is like an afterlife, or perhaps more like an 'otherlife'. It could also be that the Transistor picked up on the thoughts and intentions of the people it had absorbed, deciding to act off their minds, and run with their metaphor.

While we're at it, that the fight with Royce happened within the Cradle is an interesting idea that hadn't occured to me. It's obviously not in the world of Cloudbank, and the presence of those soul arrays, along with the fact that you can leave at all, seems to suggest it isn't fully part of the rural place you go when you are absorbed by the Transistor, wherever that is. As such, I've taken to calling this particular battlefield Limbo.

Actually, that raises a good question. Is the rural place Red and Blue end up actually directly inside the Transistor? (Personally I lean towards yes.) And is it THE Country? (Personally I can't decide what to think.)

Now, I have a little theory myself, about Recursion mode. I'm not going to say I wholeheartedly believe it, because I don't, and there's not much supporting evidence. But, I was thinking a bit about why the option to start the game again is called 'Recursion'. It's tempting to dismiss this as yet more cutesy progamming jargon being used for common videogame features, but what if it isn't? For those of you not clear on the concept, here's my attempt at explaining it: In programming, Recursion is when a program or function calls itself, or contains itself. As a concept it exists outside of programming too, like if you take a photo, of a photo, of a photo... And this can create an infinite chain.

Anyway, so, let's assume that where Red and Blue meet up is a world within the transistor, and it's presumably where the other souls integrated by the transistor ended up as well. Let's also assume that the fight with Royce takes place within the Transistor - which would suggest that the transistor can materialize itself within its own worlds. And finally, for simplicity, let's call this place The Country. So.
What if Red and Blue don't spend their time alone in the Transistor, in The Country? what if they can find some of those other souls? What if they form in to a community, found a town, start regrowing the population? Imagine, colonizing The Country. Maybe they could call it Cloudbank, in memory of the old city? And then eventually they pass away, generations pass by, the town grows in to a sprawling city, its history forgotten. And then a girl named Red is born. And one day the transistor decides to make one of those copies inside itself. And a man named Grant gets an idea. And then the storyline of the game happens. And then Red and Blue and the other souls get sucked in to that Transistor, in to another version of The Country, to unknowingly begin rebuilding the same city.
So Cloudbank was always inside the Transistor. That's where the Transistor came from, it was the firmament of their world all along, creating copies within itself. Copies within copies. It would be infinite recursion, with no clear beginning or end. I like the idea at least, though I can't bring myself to fully believe it's what the devs had in mind.

Walrus, personally I'm a bit dubious about whether the Process could be described as viewing people as a 'virus', it seems like an unecessary complication. I suspect that the goal of the Process, when no one is actively guiding them, is to erase everything. So that's just what they do, erase EVERYTHING, people and buildings alike. Now, this does raise the question of why there would be any buildings or structures left at all, which there seemed to be, white and rectangular though they were. Personally I like to think it's reflective of how real computers erase data. Most of the time, when you erase a file, you don't actually eliminate it, the computer just removes the pieces saying that the information is important, so you can write new things over it, it becomes possible to replace it. The data is mostly still there, and can sometimes be recovered. So, similarly, a lot of the structures in Cloudbank remain after the Process is through with them, just, in a form that is ready to be easily replaced or built over anew. Hence how Red had anything to walk on at all in the heavily Processed areas; it's not that the process was destroying or building things, it was just making things ready to be built upon or replaced. Which of course isn't going to happen with no humans telling the Process to build things. So most of the floors and walls remain.

I think there are some important questions about the Process, though. For one thing, how 'literal' are they? Did the process always exist as they are, just a bunch of maintainence and construction robots run amok? Or did they exist as a figurative process, the ghosts of the city's changes, until Royce found a way to focus them and give them physical form? Are they expressive of anything fundemental about the city at all, or are they more like foreign invaders, digital aliens summoned from calculations? I can't think of anything in the game hinting one way or another right now, perhaps someone else has noticed something I'm overlooking.

I'm tempted to agree that it's likely that Royce built the transistor with knowledge gleened from his trying to understand the Process. What's interesting about Royce's acquisition of the Transistor, though, is that at one point in Fairview he makes a comment that he "found it right around here, geographically speaking". This could just mean that's the spot where he had the idea for the Transistor, but it seems to suggest some sort of actual physical discovery. As far as I'm concerned, the mystery remains.

... was any of that coherent?

[walranium]

That was very coherent, Onyx...I would say it was probably more coherent than my post!

My virus theory was really me just trying to figure out why the Process was acting as it was once the Camerata lost control of the Transistor, although I really like your rationale that it's simply deleting old data and clearing space to work with and leaving some of the structure there so that it would be easy to then build on in the future, once someone has reclaimed control of the Transistor.

I think I view Cloudbank in a similar way to your view. Just as a fantasy story might have magic permeating everything, Cloudbank (and the game itself) exist in a world where the entire world is based on computer functions. I think a lot of the arguments I've seen over the existence of Cloudbank tend to circle around people being unable to separate "computer based world" from "virtual reality." I think that Cloudbank is the "base world," insomuch as there aren't people sleeping away in a separate world a la The Matrix.

The idea of Transistor's existing within Transistors existing within Transistors is an interesting one, and would gel with the idea of recursion. When first playing through, I thought that the inside of the Transistor kind of took on the personality/view of the user(s). Thus, when fighting with Royce, it is a combination of Red's wistful view of The Country with Royce's obsession with the Transistor.

I think the most interesting theory on Blue (that is a decent nickname for him) that I read had him as some alternate version of Royce that wasn't exposed to the Transistor. I think Royce does say something akin to "I haven't been quite the same since I came into contact with the Transistor," thus implying that he was somewhat different beforehand. The theory was postulated here: http://www.tomnoir.com/2014/05/recursion-story-of-transistor.html?showComment=1401735746905#c1454197760201239589

It's an interesting theory, although I'm having trouble really wrapping my head around it, as it seems to rely on a lot of assumptions that have no real basis in the information given to us by the game. It did, however, make me a little curious as to this line in Blue's function description: "Timestamp on Subject's integration coincides with timestamp of previous authenticated User relinquishing access and control." Now, I first meant that it was simply referring to Grant relinquishing control. However, it's never completely explained why control was relinquished. This brings me to three ideas:
1. The system glitched because it was attempting to absorb the trace of someone who wasn't in Cloudbank's files.
2. It initially recognized Blue/Royce as a user, and the absorption of the user's trace causes control to be relinquished.
3. It coincides with Red's suicide at the end of the game...she relinquishes control by absorbing herself, which then sets off the recursion, which loops back directly to when the function went haywire (which is point 1...sometimes even trying to explain parts of this game's story ends in circular logic, which again plays into the recursion theories).

Personally, I think 3 is most likely, although it wouldn't necessarily explain the first instance of this happening, because only 1 could have happened at first. I don't buy into the "Blue is Royce" theory, but it was interesting to at least contemplate for a little while.

As far as Royce's comment on geography, the way he says "geographically speaking" makes me think he's being metaphorical and is talking about where he was when the formula came together for him. He follows up the geography comment by saying something like "geography was only a small part. There was also the math...lots of math," implying that the mathematical component of "finding" the Transistor was more important than the place.

Well, I'm pretty well spent for the moment...I still haven't gotten around to talking about The Country, although I think the two of you have nailed down a lot of how I view it. Let me know what you think of my analysis/observation!

Edit: I have another question for anyone who can answer me: What's the significance of the first line in the game? "Hey Red, we're not going to get away with this, are we?" It's spoken by Blue the first time around, but on recursion, it's spoken by Royce. Is it simply letting us know that the Transistor has not been reset and contains all of its previous data, such as Royce being trapped in it and Royce's realization that he's trapped in an endless cycle of failure? If so, how does the line make sense in context when starting a new game? I don't have any answers to this, but I was hoping to put it out there in case you all have an idea...

[(Ƨ)ǢƗƝƮ]

It's very nice to see how dedicated people share their thoughts here :) I appreciate all of your comments and have just spent like 30 mins reading xD I saw this yesterday but I had no time so I'm sorry for not replying earlier
Onyx has a very detailed explanation and it's easy to understand, the idea about recursing is pretty original!
And to walrus, your idea about the user relinquishing is also nice that can explain some parts of the story too
About the first sentence I think it's simple

1. Blue saying it:
It's when the accident had just took place, the Camerata's failure in murdering Red and their loss of the transistor. That's what Blue meant when he said "get away with" because the phrase means like "escape with a sin". They can't "escape" because they've ruined the plan of the Camerata and Blue was quite sure that something was after them. The loss of the transistor made the Process to act on itself and the Camerata seeking to have the transistor back and kill Red. So if you were Blue, would you think you were going to get away with what you've done?

2. Royce saying it:
This one is harder and I can only assume this:
According to both of you, Royce is the one who created the transistor( so yes, this is all his fault) and he had lost it. After that he also got mad/frustrated and found a place to find to "make another one to kill Red" then the 2 fought and yet again he failed so Red had the power to rebuild the city but she refused to do that. This is the place where Royce can be like: damn you ***, you could have just let me win and I'd have rebuilt this city then you can live with your boyfriend inside that thing forever anyway. Killing yourself made it recurse so this is our fault

[walranium]

I guess I just view the phrase as a little bit odd coming from Blue, because Red & Blue (should I call them Purple when referring to both?) haven't really done anything to "get away with." At the point Blue says it, they (presumably) know nothing about the Process or anything that's going on, and it would make sense if he said something akin to "Hey Red, we're not getting out of this, are we?" rather than "We're not going to get away with this."

Another question I have about Blue:
How is the action of the Process related to Blue being inside the Transistor and Red wielding it? It seems, from snippets of what Royce said, that the Transistor gives the user some control over the Process, but it also ends up changing the user. Blue theorizes that the Process doesn't like the water, but could it be that it's taking on some of Blue's characteristics? He mentions multiple times how much he likes the water, and how he didn't initially like the Highrise because it was "too far from the water." Could this also explain some of the aggressiveness of the Process? Blue seems to have a strong desire to be Red's protector (and was possibly her bodyguard as well as her lover), and could the Process attacking everything give Blue a way to continue to protect her as the Transistor? It's just something that popped into my head partway through my latest recursion...

[(Ƨ)ǢƗƝƮ]

I don't see that affecting the story so much because it's normal for a person to like water and computer to like nothing xD I think it's simple, just like us ordinary people. For example, I like rock/metal music and most of the people in my place don't, so sometimes it seems to me like person "X" doesn't like it too.
Quote:"Blue seems to have a strong desire to be Red's protector (and was possibly her bodyguard as well as her lover)" - Any man has this kind of tendency :3 especially to the woman he likes
About changing the user, I don't have an accurate answer but I think it's just a way to say: "eventually you'll lose the transistor anyway." Or it might means that the Process can "overcome" its owner, just like it "pwned" the Camerata with Royce facepalming after losing "his" transistor (you guys said that he sort of created it)

[Onyx]

Oh, hey, right, this topic. So sad to see it left alone for so long. Let's see if I can't find some worthwhile discussion still.

As interesting a theory as it is, I have a hard time believing Blue is Royce, simply due to the major physical differences. Very different physical builds, vastly different voice, different speaking patterns, and Royce is rocking the 'monitor tan' while Blue has darker skin. I suppose it's not out of the question for a tool capable of bending the very world to one's whim, but it still seems odd.

I always assumed that the comment about Blue's absorbtion coinciding with the loss of the Camerata's control of the Transistor was just implying a causation. Blue was absorbed, and for some reason (his lack of Cloudbank Database info only being one possible reason, mind), this caused the Transistor to glitch out, including transfering control to Red. Though that raises the question of why it chose Red and not somebody else. Perhaps it points to some amount of intention and internal control of the Transistor on Blue's part, that he managed to make the Transistor obey Red. Or it might simply be that Red was the closest living human. Or something else, perhaps?

Also, nicely done on the circular logic on possibility 3. It does seem likely that the initial malfunctioning of the Transistor created a link for Recursion, somehow. And the idea that Red's suicide directly causes recursion also has some merit. You'd think that the current user killing themselves would be a bit hard to program for. It would certainly create a nice symetry, with Blue's sacrifice causing the first malfunction, and Red's sacrifice causing the second.

Ah, right you are. If only I'd remembered the full quote. I have to say, though, I'm reminded of something. Are you familiar with the SCP Foundation, by chance?
This article in particular.[www.scp-wiki.net]
I'm getting a similar vibe here. The idea of calculations and a particular location coming together to have larger... consequences. So I can't quite give up on the idea that the exact location was important somehow, even if Royce's commentary can be interpreted as simply remarking on where he had the idea for the Transistor.

Ah, the first line. What to make of that.
In Blue's case... wait. Wait a minute. Before we get in to anything else, how many people in Cloudbank had forknowledge of the Process? The Camerata, obviously. Possibly some of the people investigating the Camerata`s actions. I'm going to assume Red didn't know about it, and it's implied by the OVC news that the larger populace of cloudbank didn't know about it untl their city started disappearing. But did Blue know about it? He doesn't act very surprised when you encounter it for the first time, simply refering to them as a "block party". Though that might just be his snarky nature, and his being 'too cool' to act surprised at anything. But maybe he did already know about it. There's also the ever-present question of whether Blue knew anything about the Camerata. It seems plausible he'd know something, being the secretive, street-savvy type that he is, along with how people had been disappearing for several weeks. But such forknowledge isn't necessary to explain his first line in the game, either. If a mysterious, well organized group suddenly appears and attempts to kill you, only for you to survive and make off with their murder weapon (and there's Blue's assumption that the next logical step would be leaving town and going in to hiding), it would seem reasonable to say something to the effect of "We're not going to get away with this [escape], are we?"

I would like to point one thing out before I go in to trying to understand why Royce would say the line, though. Red winning against Royce only to kill herself really would have been futile if she could have just lost instead. So... I don't think the loser in that duel got integrated in to the Transistor. There was no absorbtion of Royce's trace, remember. He just flashed out of existence. Even if they were already inside the Transistor or the Cradle, I don't think the loser of that duel got to go anywhere, if you know what I mean. Which would mean, ironically, that Royce is the only member of the Camerata who's trace didn't get integrated, his function only existing due to a trace recording (however that works... but that's another issue).
... And yet I'm about to talk about an instance where Royce talks from within the Transistor, after the duel. Dang it, there goes that paragraph. Why, Supergiant, why. Why did you have to throw that one line in, it complicates things so much. So why did Red persist in winning against Royce? Did she just have to see the outside world, and its emptiness, before she changes her mind about how great it would be outside the Transistor? Or perhaps she just wanted to deny Royce the right to control the world, after everything he's responsible for, both directly and indirectly. I like that explanation, let's go with that.

Anyway, back on track. We can make some sense of Royce saying 'the line' if we throw out my recursion theory and instead say that recursion mode, from the player's viewpoint, isn't much different than recursion from Red's viewpoint - that is to say, a direct continuation of the story, with the same Red, happening sometime after the first playthrough. In which case, Royce would be refering to the odds of surviving the entire story, again, possibly with the added danger of causing some sort of chaos-theory reaction that massively derails the timeline and creates a whole headache's worth of paradoxes. Thus, "We're not going to get away with [doing] this [again], are we?" Royce also mentions that it's easier to hear people inside the Transistor if you know them. So it's possible Royce actually said that line the first time you play the game as well, and Red just didn't know Royce well enough to hear him from inside the Transistor... already inside the Transistor...

I always assumed that Red simply wasn't experienced enough with the Transistor, or lacked the proper authentication with it, to use it to its full potential and control the Process, until the end of the game. So in the meantime the Process was literally out of control, deleting the world. I think their aversion to water is just a reflection of their technologic nature. Most computers don`t react well to water, after all. The Process would probably short-circuit if submersed. Makes you wonder why Red didn't just pick up a water gun.
Very interesting thought, that part of the situation is due to Blue`s subconcious desires. However, that implies that Blue has some amount of priority in the Transistor. And it is his voice we hear throughout the game, but, as I mentioned earlier, that might just be due to his closeness with Red. But at the same time, being close to the current Transistor user might be enough to gain priority over the other souls anyway... hmmm.

I also can`t disprove the idea that the Transistor has some sort of inherently rebellious nature. Though, Occam`s Razor again, it doesn`t seem like a necessary element to explain the story. Everything that happens can be attributed to the motives of other agents that already exist, without ascribing some sort of agency to the Transistor, which for the most part appears entirely passive. Though appearances can be decieving.

Also, yes, we're fairly sure Royce created, or rather, found the Transistor. Quite a bit of his commentary and the logs throughout Fairview imply as much (there's an awful lot of backstory crammed in to Fairview). It's also mentioned that Royce was simply "lending" the Transistor to Grant, so it seems Royce had some sort of prior ownership before the Camerata put their plan in to action.

[(Ƨ)ǢƗƝƮ]

It's good to see that somebody still cares about my thread :)
The reason why it doesn't have many discussion is because, i guess, it's too long and people are lazy to read it all xD and then, they don't have any idea to share when you 2 are coming up with so weird ideas xD
Anyway, your ideas were clear and good expansions of mine that could answer what i was wondering :) but i must say, this time it is so vague and hard to comprehend o.o This time it feels like Blue and Royce ARE the same guy. Blue doesn't have any info stored inside the transistor? BECAUSE HE'S ROYCE!!! :3 And Royce has control over the Transistor so he's hiding his info. Basically Royce knows a lot already so it gives the feeling that Blue is a kind of half good and half bad guy, remembering that Royce and Blue are the same guy. So why Royce loves Red then? O_o Maybe because they were too closely related throughout the story? The reason why Blue is guiding and protecting Red is because, let's say, Royce knows the Camerata's intention in killing Red so he created "an illusion of himself". When he and Red confronted each other, it doesn't matter if Red wins, or perhaps, Royce wanted Red to win and then tells her: "design a new world of your will, then we'll be living in it together, just us 2" like in love stories <3. But the end turned out unexpected for him xD so he felt wtf *facepalm* and caused the recursion to "open up her mind"
That's what i think after reading your comment :D thanks for your contribution sir :3

[walranium]

I find myself thinking about the story in this game occasionally (especially when listening to the soundtrack!), although the farther away I get from having played it, the more muddled my thoughts become.

I do realize that a lot of the ideas I threw out were a bit off-center, but when I play games like this I tend to be drawn to some of the less obvious explanations...it's tough sometimes to try and apply Occam's Razor to stories that are built purposefully deceptive/vague. That being said, I probably am sometimes trying too hard to create connections between every little piece of the story. For example, the first time I finished the game, I wondered if maybe the entire game was the dream of a dying Red, and that she had actually been killed with Blue during the confrontation with the Camerata and this was her mind trying to make sense of her death and give herself closure as she lay dying, although I dismissed this theory during my second playthrough. I think it was more applying a story trope that I find somewhat interesting tot he story without really having any evidence.

One issue that was mentioned that I've always wondered: How did Blue know so much about the Process and the Camerata? He seems to provide Red with a lot of information on both subjects...but why would he know so much and yet not have told her before? Is it knowledge that he is getting from the Transistor and the traces that are already inside it? Asher, Grant and Royce all have their trace status listed as "Recorded" on their bio pages (as opposed to integrated for all of the others besides Red), so some of their information seems to already be inside the Transistor from the beginning, although how this works doesn't ever seem to be explained.

Man, I really need to play this again...I'm sure I'll come up with another off-the-wall theory or two if I do :)

[(Ƨ)ǢƗƝƮ]

Originally posted by walrusgod:

I find myself thinking about the story in this game occasionally (especially when listening to the soundtrack!), although the farther away I get from having played it, the more muddled my thoughts become.

I do realize that a lot of the ideas I threw out were a bit off-center, but when I play games like this I tend to be drawn to some of the less obvious explanations...it's tough sometimes to try and apply Occam's Razor to stories that are built purposefully deceptive/vague. That being said, I probably am sometimes trying too hard to create connections between every little piece of the story. For example, the first time I finished the game, I wondered if maybe the entire game was the dream of a dying Red, and that she had actually been killed with Blue during the confrontation with the Camerata and this was her mind trying to make sense of her death and give herself closure as she lay dying, although I dismissed this theory during my second playthrough. I think it was more applying a story trope that I find somewhat interesting tot he story without really having any evidence.

One issue that was mentioned that I've always wondered: How did Blue know so much about the Process and the Camerata? He seems to provide Red with a lot of information on both subjects...but why would he know so much and yet not have told her before? Is it knowledge that he is getting from the Transistor and the traces that are already inside it? Asher, Grant and Royce all have their trace status listed as "Recorded" on their bio pages (as opposed to integrated for all of the others besides Red), so some of their information seems to already be inside the Transistor from the beginning, although how this works doesn't ever seem to be explained.

Man, I really need to play this again...I'm sure I'll come up with another off-the-wall theory or two if I do :)

enjoy playing the game over and over again xD

[ComeOnAndSam]

While re-reading Royce's full bio, I feel I have a pretty good understanding of what the Transistor is.

It says that, after Royce quit being an architect, he spent his time figuring out the formula for how Cloudbank grows. It's of very little debate that Cloudbank is a virtual city, but Royce is the only one to figure that out, and possibly that it was generated by someone on the outside commanding it to.

So each person in Cloudbank, The Process, and Cloudbank itself, is part of the software of this digital world. But the Transistor is not, it is the hardware, and that is why it is so powerful. Royce figured out the world everyone saw was not the whole thing, and managed to find the actual physical piece of the computer that did the controlling, aka it sought him out/was given to him once he pieced all his findings together.

[Fred Kelly007]

Ok, just finishing the game myself, I came to the conclusion that The Transistor was the dude (lest call him Bob) who was impaled on the sword when you start, and he was a friend/lover of Red hence sacrificing himself. and at the end when she kills herself is cos there was nothing left in cloudbank. So instead she joined Bob and lived happily ever after with him in the country. so I kinda liked the ending.

[(Ƨ)ǢƗƝƮ]

Yeah, basically that's all the developers want us to understand from the game, but I'm still looking for some deeper and more complex things that might be put into the game

[bsabella]

OK... and what about this scenario for the beginning (not the recursion)...

The Transistor is only a tool that works with or is a programming code.
Its instruction is: take the life (soul) of Red and proccess it.
The point is that it took the life/soul of Blue instead...

Now, if the programmer (Royce) didn't put a line code "if else" it just stops waiting for a new instruction. For the non-programmers, "if else" is used to tell the program what to do is it can't execute a certain line. In this case, a good choice could be "lock" or "shutdown" (and an "unlock" or "startup" with a key needed...)

Also, if Royce didn't make a list of authorized users (like himself or a member of the Camarada), anyone can be a user. Red was just the first available... She didn't become the next user because she was intended to be, but because she wasn't not-intended to be.

In fact the all game is Red as a new user in the learnig proccess of a new freeware program, being Blue the F1 guide/help. And she is the only user because there is only one copy available of the program (at least till the final fight with Royce...)

Now, why didn't Royce put that line and made that list?
A programmer modifies a code when needed, and till that accident he didn't need to...

I hope somebody is still reading this thread because I love it ;)

[Fred Kelly007]

Originally posted by bsabella:

OK... and what about this scenario for the beginning (not the recursion)...

The Transistor is only a tool that works with or is a programming code.
Its instruction is: take the life (soul) of Red and proccess it.
The point is that it took the life/soul of Blue instead...

Now, if the programmer (Royce) didn't put a line code "if else" it just stops waiting for a new instruction. For the non-programmers, "if else" is used to tell the program what to do is it can't execute a certain line. In this case, a good choice could be "lock" or "shutdown" (and an "unlock" or "startup" with a key needed...)

Also, if Royce didn't make a list of authorized users (like himself or a member of the Camarada), anyone can be a user. Red was just the first available... She didn't become the next user because she was intended to be, but because she wasn't not-intended to be.

In fact the all game is Red as a new user in the learnig proccess of a new freeware program, being Blue the F1 guide/help. And she is the only user because there is only one copy available of the program (at least till the final fight with Royce...)

Now, why didn't Royce put that line and made that list?
A programmer modifies a code when needed, and till that accident he didn't need to...

I hope somebody is still reading this thread because I love it ;)

Who knows..