Book 4 ending. OBVIOUS spolilers.

[Jaguar D Saul]

♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. IT'S ALL COME FULL CIRCLE. I was screaming at my monitor when I saw what happened. It really raises more questions than it anwsers.

Did TLJ Dreamfalls happen, and that was essentially the prolouge to the events of Chapters? Or was that also part of the coma? Is book 5 enough to close the book on this "expanded universe?" I want to say no, I NEED MORE STORY, as nothing can ever be enough. I LOVE THE STORY TOO MUCH FOR IT TO END. PLEASE MAKE MORE CONTENT FOREVER, SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEEEYYYYYYY

[Jaguar D Saul]

Also, no who the ♥♥♥♥ is Saga.
BUT WHY IS HER DAD SUCH A CONTROLING ♥♥♥♥? I seriously hate that guy, right from the get go. IS it just me, or is he an unlikeable guy? I mean I understand his motivations, and reasoning. But I don't like the dude. Not even a little.

[Darcory]

Same feels mate same... So much question and can't see where is this going,

Can't wait for Book 5! Really amazing story so far, hope final will be epic and happy. :(

And yes, we need more Dreamfall, amazing concept.

[CrazyOdd]

I dont think everything is a part of the coma.
Zoë is a dreamer, so its more likely that she dreamed her self into everything that happend. After all, she has been able to interact with things when she is not in Stark, so its not out of concext that she did that.
But that means that her body got relocated at the end of Dreamfall and she dreamed a copy of her self, still in coma, in its place. If not, so would not people interacting with her coma self, not make any sence. Unless they did that at the location she woke up on in book 4, but that place looked more like a prison then a normal hospital.

[Jaguar D Saul]

Originally posted by Indiana:

Originally posted by Chiobe:

I dont think everything is a part of the coma.
Zoë is a dreamer, so its more likely that she dreamed her self into everything that happend. After all, she has been able to interact with things when she is not in Stark, so its not out of concext that she did that.
But that means that her body got relocated at the end of Dreamfall and she dreamed a copy of her self, still in coma, in its place. If not, so would not people interacting with her coma self, not make any sence. Unless they did that at the location she woke up on in book 4, but that place looked more like a prison then a normal hospital.

......................It was her home not a hospital.

It was an interrogation room.... It's clear whet happened in Arcadia did occour, but the fact that she "woke up" from her coma a second time, panning out to behind an interrogation one way screen... And the strange questioning the therapist had. In my mind it calls into question everything that happened in Stark, from the end of TLJ Dreamfalls. Right up until the point at which Zoe was drugged in casablanka by her aleged mother.

Now that I think about it, it seems Saga might even be the Zoe's aleged sister. The girl who was being torutured in the facaility where the dream machene was hosted, towards the end of Dreamfalls.... I could be reaching, but I did notice similarites between her cell, and the "house" Saga created. Perhaps that is who Saga is, and that is her proluogue, but it still dosen't yet tie in with the girl that was leading Zoe to April in the first place. More I think about it, the more it seems like the black dragon is alive and well. And that Zoe has been in the belly of the beast for the entirety of Chapters...

[CrazyOdd]

Originally posted by CongenialVirus:

Originally posted by Indiana:

......................It was her home not a hospital.

It was an interrogation room.... It's clear whet happened in Arcadia did occour, but the fact that she "woke up" from her coma a second time, panning out to behind an interrogation one way screen... And the strange questioning the therapist had. In my mind it calls into question everything that happened in Stark, from the end of TLJ Dreamfalls. Right up until the point at which Zoe was drugged in casablanka by her aleged mother.

Now that I think about it, it seems Saga might even be the Zoe's aleged sister. The girl who was being torutured in the facaility where the dream machene was hosted, towards the end of Dreamfalls.... I could be reaching, but I did notice similarites between her cell, and the "house" Saga created. Perhaps that is who Saga is, and that is her proluogue, but it still dosen't yet tie in with the girl that was leading Zoe to April in the first place. More I think about it, the more it seems like the black dragon is alive and well. And that Zoe has been in the belly of the beast for the entirety of Chapters...

I think its more likely that Zoë dreamed herself into Stark then that it was all a dream. Unless someone in the develpment was playing us all a joke.

[Wintermutation]

Ragnar seems to be firmly within the Hideo Kojima school of story-telling, where raising questions is a far higher priority than satisfactorily answering them. The Longest Journey was a classic in the same vein as Metal Gear Solid, and then both go totally bananas in the sequels. They both shift focus away from the cool primary protagonist (April/Snake) onto a lame, whiny one (Zoe/Raiden), introduce loads of weird, complex mysteries, and then when given the opportunity to explore their previous ideas, just come up with new stuff and ignore most of the dangling threads.

For example, the whole Draic Kin plot was central to TLJ, and the nature of these four eternal, godlike beings is still shrouded in mystery. Faith was a main theme in Dreamfall, so I was waiting for someone to point out that, like, there were actual gods walking around who you could just ask, rather than waste time fighting/debating over the nature of reality. But then these eternal beings linked with the creation of the world are just killed off in one line of dialogue. "Oh, yeah, something ate the other dragons, I'm the only one left." End of subplot. I mean, even the simple question of what happened to Cortez and McAllen after they fall off the MTI building is totally ignored.

I like Ragnar's (and his team's) writing, but he's far too quick to get bored and move on.

[Jaguar D Saul]

I agree. I'm still holding out hope that the lose ends are tied up in book 5 to some degree. It still seems that there is more than meets the eye as far as the conflict in Stark and Arcida goes. Esepcially with the foreshadowing that happened at book 4.

Though I will say I did like Zoe, because she wast a whiny ♥♥♥♥♥. She didn't develop too much in Dreamfalls, but she has grown some in Chapters. So I'll reserve critical literary judgment until the book is closed on Chapters. But even if it leaves a bad taste in my mouth after it ends, I'd be a damned liar if I said I'd not want to see more of the "TLJ story" continue.

[Orchid]

I prefer new Zoe as well. The one in Dreamfall: TLJ was fretful and annoying to me.
I like the ending of Book Four too.
There is only one thing that gets me thinking now. Maybe you have some ideas about it.
In general, I'd assume that the dreamer "dreams" herself into some world, and she really exists there. Even if she is just some kind of projection/hologram, the others can see and interact with a dreamer. The action does really happen, even though the dreamer is not "fully" in a given place.

This would explain perfectly the messages from people, the disappearing when connecting to the unlicensed dreamer and so on.
One thing just doesn't work for me here. Zoe dreamt herself into Stark. She met with Reza, began new life and had some story with her father. However if she only dreamt herself into the stark, then her body would still be in "the hospital" (or her room in Casablanca?). How come? How is this possible that her closest would miss that? How could they come to terms and move on, stop visiting her real body and go along with the projection instead? Her vitals are still in Casablanca and her "charts" were not promising. If she would physically die, then her "projection" would disappear as well (or travel to Storytime?). Anyway, I cannot believe that her beloved ones would neglect her body and be satisfied with just a vision of her. And that she wouldn't see herself lying in bed, still in a coma.
This is what doesn't match here for me.
I can come up with only one, very vauge and strained explanation, but this seems to be so forced after all...

[CrazyOdd]

Originally posted by Orchid:

This is what doesn't match here for me.
I can come up with only one, very vauge and strained explanation, but this seems to be so forced after all...

I think Zoë made it happen with her power, so the body everyone was visting where her dream body from the beginning. After all, she had a coma copy in storytime, so its possible thats what everyone else was seeing also.
Ether that or the german dudes boss made it happen.

[Jaguar D Saul]

I think there are still peices on the board we can't see yet. If anything, it's possible that the events of Stark itself were fabrication. She was a test subject for the dream machiene perhaps? And they were using her in a fabricated plot to strack how she "goes" to Arciadia. So that the people using her will perfect the method.. Like tracing a phoine call.

But even with this explination, the Azadi in Arcadia seem to have a connection to Stark. This connection is just as unexplained. Arcadia is a place of magic. So why are the Azadi such antagonistic forces in the story? [Not to mention mad zealots] And why do they have access to science, or what appears to be so. It was teased in book 3... I'm really hoping for some satisfying anwsers. Esepcailly because CLACKS WAS TRAPPED IN A ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ CALCULATOR. Which implies that science and magic will react violentley with eachother. Which, if all they are doing is trying to undo the balance...

WAIT A ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ SECOND. What about the Gaurdian? THAT DUDE WAS THE BLACK DRAGON. They forshadowed that ♥♥♥♥ at the end of the TLJ. Or in the middle.... And the protection of the balance was central to the plot... And what about Ropert with a seemingly split personality? After playing again and thinking about it. There is a lot of ♥♥♥♥ that is not adding up.... This better be some wild curve ball and not bad writing and inconsistincy. Because that will make me sad, and will severely effect my annalisis and review of the game...

I can't spell without spell check. Cry pardon.

[Orchid]

Roper seems to change his personality a bit. In DTLJ he was fine with April. Not really fond of, but also not mad at. Up to some point you could explain it with Baba Yaga.. He sold his soul to Evil like Faust. Thi corrupted him. Then he was released from their influence and became "normal". But in DFC he is unforgiving again. The word "♥♥♥♥♥" occurs every now and then. He just cannot help himself.

You can also see quite many references to Brian Westhouse, even though he appeared very seldom in person. Saga drew him together with a very dark ghost (evil part of him).
He also tries to reach new places where he doesn't really belong to, like Arcadia or Storytime. Undreaming attacked him then. We don't know the result. And in DFC Zoe got a warning to watch out for someone who hides their true colors. Strange behavior of Brian in Venar's Abode. Refusing to leave the house in quite unpleasant way. How did he even get there, considering the magical barrier? Not to mention open questions from DTLJ. The first part is called "Tainted". Quite suggestive right? He chose the path of shadows. When you eavesdropped two monks, you could hear that it was Brian's journey who unleashed the Undreaming and that it was the goal for monks. Not sure if Brian was aware of all the consequences though.
Gameplay
Also we had the sister of April, Draic Kin who said that she didn't feel comfortable near him (goosebumps). She was also attacked in the Dark Library, where the only known characters were Dark People, April, Crow, Dragon Kin and Brian. Who knows, maybe monks will make a great entrance in book five.

I also wonder how Hanna is forgotten. Hanna turned out to be a dreamer as well. Maybe weaker, with no guidance, but still. She saw Arcadia and the magical beings. Yet, when Zoe was about to finally meet the First Dreamer, she is told that she is the last one. Ok, so now all of a sudden, Hanna isn't a dreamer. Ok.

I hope that they will nicely clear out what is the main evil here.
I mean if it was just the Emmissary, then a Dreamer should be able to destroy her plan with no effort at all. Ok, maybe he needed his heart. Now he got it back. He is some kind of devine creature who created the current universe and who existed before Balance. It would suggest that the true enemy is not pitiful and overambitious Tower Girl with her lovebird. More like another being that lives as long as the dreamer or is even older. Like Yaga. Azadi's sorcery issues seem to be just a distraction, so that you can forget all of these little clues and be very surprised at the end.

Anyways, l keep finger crossed for the RTG. If they explain it all, then it would be very nice and elaborate plot. This is exactly what I like in TLJ. If not, then it would imply to me that they aimed to create world so mysterious and mythic, that somewhere in the middle even they got lost wit all the ideas which they were not able to sensibly put together later on. I cannot wait for the next book to find out.

[Indiana]

Originally posted by CongenialVirus:

Also, no who the ♥♥♥♥ is Saga.
BUT WHY IS HER DAD SUCH A CONTROLING ♥♥♥♥? I seriously hate that guy, right from the get go. IS it just me, or is he an unlikeable guy? I mean I understand his motivations, and reasoning. But I don't like the dude. Not even a little.

.....He lost his wife by letting her go "out" he just didn't want that to happen to his daughter too.

[CrazyOdd]

Originally posted by Orchid:

I also wonder how Hanna is forgotten. Hanna turned out to be a dreamer as well. Maybe weaker, with no guidance, but still. She saw Arcadia and the magical beings. Yet, when Zoe was about to finally meet the First Dreamer, she is told that she is the last one. Ok, so now all of a sudden, Hanna isn't a dreamer. Ok.

My guess is that ether she was just linked to Zoë or something happend in the mean time.
Or she could also have been the backup, because of the whole coma thing.

[kossiths]

I feel like Hannah is not a dreamer but a shifter. If I remember correctly, April also mistook her early shifts for dreams, so that would possibly explain why Hannah is remembering aspects of Arcadia even if she is certainly not a dreamer.

On the other hand, I'm kind of worried that a lot of the characters we met in chapters 1-3 in Stark are going to be ignored in the final chapter if Zoe merely dreamed herself into propast. Queenie and Hannah (and even Falk Friedman) all seemed so relevant, but if book 5 ends w Zoe going after Waticorp/the dreammachines, I dont really see how they would fit into the story :(

[CrazyOdd]

Originally posted by kossiths:

I feel like Hannah is not a dreamer but a shifter. If I remember correctly, April also mistook her early shifts for dreams, so that would possibly explain why Hannah is remembering aspects of Arcadia even if she is certainly not a dreamer.

On the other hand, I'm kind of worried that a lot of the characters we met in chapters 1-3 in Stark are going to be ignored in the final chapter if Zoe merely dreamed herself into propast. Queenie and Hannah (and even Falk Friedman) all seemed so relevant, but if book 5 ends w Zoe going after Waticorp/the dreammachines, I dont really see how they would fit into the story :(

I dont belive that she would have shifted her self to the blue mountains, as shifters seems to go to certain places on both sides, as evident by the inn that Zoë arrived in. The innkeeper said that people like April and Zoë seemed to frekvent that place. At least when they are new to the game, that is. Possible do to the strange dream well under it, that April found in the last game.

My guess is that Hannah shared Zoës power, so there would be a dreamer around to claim the first dreamers power, regardless of what happend to Zoë.
That would also explain why Hannah dont seem to do anything dreamer related after Zoë starts to figure out her power again.