April

[Lady Mantis]

So I've heard theories about April still being alive and others say she really is dead and that they just wanted a clean cut to her storyline. What do you all think? Also, maybe I'm being dumb, but when Faith said that Zoe saved April (even though April was killed), what did she mean by that? Sorry if that's a dumb question.

[Calm Breeze]

I think it's bluntly obvious that Saga is April (she can shift, she made drawings about the first game, she saw the White Dragon in a dream, April is adopted, the first game you see the same drawings in the menu and in her wardrobe), so if Saga is immune to fire.....I'll let you finish that thought. I also think people forget about Brian`s shadow and how he is probably the culprit for the Draic Kin desappearance.

[Cyber-Mage]

From reading everything the lead writer of this series has said (in forums, social media and interviews) I can assure you that the definitely do NOT want "a clean cut" from April's storyline. Though we are not privy to what they have planned regarding April in Dreamfall: Chapters it is absolutely clear that her story is interweaved throughout this game, from the opening cinematic being "dedicated" to her, to all the Saga interludes, who is obviously strongly "related" to April (though exactly how is yet unknown and heavily speculated) and even has her mother voiced by April's voice actress, to feverish Kian hearing April's voice in his head, etc. Also, you're right that we still don't know how Zoe "saved" April in the 1st Dreamfall game, and since Chapters is the second part of that duology it is expected that we'll find out before the end. Finally, going back to the original The Longest Journey, April appears to have unfulfilled prophecies (not to mention the whole "mystery" of whether she is Lady Alvane or not) and given that during the Kickstarter the developers hinted at the possibility of a 4th game in the series (called "The Longest Journey Home") that would feature April in adventures taking place before -AND after!- the events of the Dreamfall games, I would bet that we haven't seen the last of April Ryan. Now, will that return be like Gandalf's in The Lord of the Rings, or a Dr-Who like "regeneration", or a "reincarnation" of shorts, or some other way that we can't possibly imagine at this time? We don't know, but I'm sure we'll find out sooner than later! ;)

[oniric.sound]

It could very well be what Coasiint is saying is true. I would reaaaally love to know what happened to Westhouse.

I would "hope" that April is dead...for the sake of the story. A resurrection of a character that's been dead for 3 episodes of the new game would really suck. It would just sound too easy, whatever the excuse might be. You decided to kill April? Fine: she stays dead. I didn't like the fact that the story wanted her dead, but I'm guessng I'd hate even more a sort of "phoenix" story.
So to me the "Saga part" is just a way to keep her character alive in the narrative and have a nice reference to the first Longest Journey, which is cool, in my opinion.

Why should she stay dead? Well we've already got so much at stake here...there's just so many characters with pots, subplots and so forth...to have a major character re-introduced in the story would really mess things up, especially to people that haven't played the first games.

[Cyber-Mage]

Originally posted by oniric.sound:

I would "hope" that April is dead...for the sake of the story. A resurrection of a character that's been dead for 3 episodes of the new game would really suck. It would just sound too easy, whatever the excuse might be. You decided to kill April? Fine: she stays dead. I didn't like the fact that the story wanted her dead, but I'm guessng I'd hate even more a sort of "phoenix" story.

That's a ... strange thing to say oniric. First, how do you really *know* with such certainty that April being dead-dead would make a "better story" compared to some other alternative? Did Gandalf's return in Lord of the Rings make that a worse story? Did Neo's revival in the Matrix after getting gunned down make it a worse story? Aslan's in Narnia? Harry Potter's? or Spock's in the Star Trek films, and numerous other such examples from fantasy and science fiction. And even if you answer "yes" to all of the above and you dislike reversing deaths in any occasion, there is also a huge crowd who liked (some of) these stories and think that if handled well, a "revival" of a character can be as profound as their death and allow for some great storytelling.

Also strange is that you assume April's death and/or revival will be decided on a whim, handled like a trivial "bone" to the fans. That can't be the case. If April returns in some way it will be because that was ALWAYS the plan since the story of Dreamfall first took shape and form in Ragnar's mind, way before even its release. He's been on record saying that for the "big" events and core plot points (not the minor details and side-characters) there is a "TLJ bible" document written all those years ago that it still being followed. And April's fate (and Zoe's, and Kian's) is definitely one of the most major events in this universe. Ragnar also gave an interview in 2006 (before Dreamfall's release) saying that he modelled April there after Aragorn (from the Lord of the Rings), the reluctant hero, and that she'll be modelled after an other LOTR character (didn't say who) in Dreamfall's sequel (which was then supposed to follow quickly after). I really am sure that he was talking about Gandalf as the "model". Oh, also note there is a drawing of a Phoenix in the House of All Worlds. ;)

So, if we follow your suggestion, writers are no longer allowed to write "fake-out" deaths, or to temporarily "trick" their audience for a good reason? (because let's face it, a -planned- revival of a dead character is nothing but an elaborate "fake-out" with a fantasy/sci-fi bend). And April has practically been dead only for half a game (which sounds much less than your "for 3 episodes"), which is also in the middle of a duology where things are usually the worse for the protagonists (Han Solo in carbonite example).

You know what would really make a bad story? If important plot elements from the 1st Dreamfall were forgotten. Like never explaining how Zoe "saved" April. I think it would be a far greater faux pas if we got an unispired explanation for that, something that wouldn't really abide by the definition of "saving". Thus, just because the "saving" part is already there in the first game (not to mention prophecies from TLJ) April CAN'T be completely gone, THAT would be a retcon and bad writing.

Have faith in the storytellers, because whatever is going on with April, has been planned in great detail A LONG time ago in what I'm certain is one of the greatest example of "audience manipulation" and sleight of hand in fiction and I can't wait to EXPERIENCE the amazing pay-off along with you all.

PS: Westhouse is confirmed to be in Book 4, btw (his voice actor was in the recording room according to Ragnar's twitter).

[oniric.sound]

Originally posted by Cyber-Mage:

That's a ... strange thing to say oniric. First, how do you really *know* with such certainty that April being dead-dead would make a "better story" compared to some other alternative?
Did Gandalf's return in Lord of the Rings make that a worse story? Did Neo's revival in the Matrix after getting gunned down make it a worse story? Aslan's in Narnia? Harry Potter's? or Spock's in the Star Trek films, and numerous other such examples from fantasy and science fiction. And even if you answer "yes" to all of the above and you dislike reversing deaths in any occasion, there is also a huge crowd who liked (some of) these stories and think that if handled well, a "revival" of a character can be as profound as their death and allow for some great storytelling.

I loved her character: she's the best thing in the Whole *a-hem* saga. :-)
I truly believe this and myu favourite game OF ALL TIME is TLJ (not Dreamfall, not even DF chapters)

BUT!

If April was killed in Dreamfall bringing her back could add more confusion to the current plot. I'd love her to be back for she is my favourite character, but I'm aware there's already lots of things happening in the game.
My opinion is that she simply should not have died in Dreamfall.

About other characters in other movies: I totally see what you're saying but the situation here is different
1) we're talking about a figure who was a protagonist, then becomes a side character, then dies. So we have a shift in role here
2) most of the characters who die and then resurrect do that ina timely fashion. They don't leave you hanging for a very long time. We're talking looots of years here! What was last time I had some narration on April? 2006?

Originally posted by Cyber-Mage:

Also strange is that you assume April's death and/or revival will be decided on a whim, handled like a trivial "bone" to the fans. That can't be the case. If April returns in some way it will be because that was ALWAYS the plan since the story of Dreamfall first took shape and form in Ragnar's mind, way before even its release. He's been on record saying that for the "big" events and core plot points (not the minor details and side-characters) there is a "TLJ bible" document written all those years ago that it still being followed.

I'd sure hope that the plot won't be decided on a whim! We're merely speculating here about what might or might not happen :-)

Originally posted by Cyber-Mage:

And April's fate (and Zoe's, and Kian's) is definitely one of the most major events in this universe. Ragnar also gave an interview in 2006 (before Dreamfall's release) saying that he modelled April there after Aragorn (from the Lord of the Rings), the reluctant hero, and that she'll be modelled after an other LOTR character (didn't say who) in Dreamfall's sequel (which was then supposed to follow quickly after). I really am sure that he was talking about Gandalf as the "model". Oh, also note there is a drawing of a Phoenix in the House of All Worlds. ;)

I truly love the Lord of the Rings. It's great that Ragnar took inspiration from that book.
When I played the first TLJ in 1999 I was already a Tolkien geek...I remember I even read the Silmarillion at that time.
I would never compare April to Aragorn but ok: I see the analogy there a bit.
As for April like Gandalf? It would be very cliché but effective I guess. I prefer the good ol' April from TLJ. The way she was pure of heart, a little naive, whitty and funny.
But I'm digressing here.
Whatever they decided I'm sore, as you say, they've decided it long ago and, again, I'm not hoping they read my post (that's just childish!), I'm just speculating and elaborating...you know...just throwing toughts out there ^_^

Originally posted by Cyber-Mage:

So, if we follow your suggestion, writers are no longer allowed to write "fake-out" deaths, or to temporarily "trick" their audience for a good reason? (because let's face it, a -planned- revival of a dead character is nothing but an elaborate "fake-out" with a fantasy/sci-fi bend). And April has practically been dead only for half a game (which sounds much less than your "for 3 episodes"), which is also in the middle of a duology where things are usually the worse for the protagonists (Han Solo in carbonite example).

What a coincidence!!!!! I was just watching that scene from The Empire Strikes back...like RIGHT NOW! I mean I have VLC open on that scene now! I love when this happens! HAHAHA
Ok I've half-answered this already so I won't repeat myself. Besides, what I'm concerned about is plot continuum, not plot devices here.
But April being dead for like half a game? Well tecnically that's correct but you know what? I hated playing April in Dreamfall. Combats aside, her attitude sucked...I know it was meant to be that way but really...there was no depth...she was just ♥♥♥♥♥♥ and that's it...yeah yeah she cared for mouse and showed empathy towards Zoe but still...no fun playing her either. So yeah: she wasn't dead yet but *heh*....

Originally posted by Cyber-Mage:

You know what would really make a bad story? If important plot elements from the 1st Dreamfall were forgotten. Like never explaining how Zoe "saved" April. I think it would be a far greater faux pas if we got an unispired explanation for that, something that wouldn't really abide by the definition of "saving". Thus, just because the "saving" part is already there in the first game (not to mention prophecies from TLJ) April CAN'T be completely gone, THAT would be a retcon and bad writing.

Yeah I kinda missed that ...how did Zoe save April? In the end of Dreamfall she said all she did was for nothing...I'm getting old and forgetting parts here...?

Originally posted by Cyber-Mage:

Have faith in the storytellers, because whatever is going on with April, has been planned in great detail A LONG time ago in what I'm certain is one of the greatest example of "audience manipulation" and sleight of hand in fiction and I can't wait to EXPERIENCE the amazing pay-off along with you all.

Well ofcourse I'm hoping we'll get a nice ending to this story but I can't help being concerned.
I was hoping to get answers to a lot of subplots and what I got so far is more details and few explanations. I'll replay the videogame once it's finished but for now I have lots of question marks. Months between each chapter don't help.
All I'm saying is if I keep getting more and more info and characters but no explanation of the causality of stuff that happens I just might get little frustrated.

I like your attitude so I'll try being more confident :)

Originally posted by Cyber-Mage:

PS: Westhouse is confirmed to be in Book 4, btw (his voice actor was in the recording room according to Ragnar's twitter).

Finally! I'm sure he's twisted...sorta like Melkor (or Morgoth)....eeeeeeeevil :D

ciao!