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The TLJ/Dreamfall series is unique, magical and special. but there is no denying that all three games are highly flawed in their own ways.
Well, no. Zoe was in a Coma but projected a physical form in Propast so that part was supposedly "real" and not for nothing.
Although I hated that aspect, it just seemed like a cheap excuse to get ends to meet. It's bad writing really.
Anyway, I agree that there was too much wandering around Propast and Mercuria with little to do other than look at things. Which was made all the worse by the lack of a mini-map/compass.
It really desperately needed more for the player to interact with. The kind of things you get in modern open world games.
Something in the way of secrets/side-quests and perhaps even 'unlockables' may not have been a bad thing either.
However, the story pacing in Chapters was fine though imo. A steady gradual ascent to a dramatic climax.
Although yeah, I do agree the politics aspect was a little too prolific. It would have been better if we actually at least got to see the party leaders in cut scenes or something, but nope, nothing...
Like you say, @lastbreath - conspiracy, mystery, story, fantastic worlds, a fantasy adventure !
I really agree with you both on Dreamfall Chapters - waaay too much walking and definitely too little to do ! And when we ( playing this together with my husband ) finally figure out what to do, we are are almost too irritated to even care . Sigh !
In this game, the magic and fun from TLJ, has almost totally disappeared, and left us with a stumbling political walking-sim , with the story only partly recognizable. Twice Sigh !!!!
I didn't say that TLJ was perfect. But it has strong detective story in fantasy world. The whole game was about investigation and finding new keys. And it was mega interesting! I literally couldn't stop playing the game in seeking of truth!
And there is no more investigations in Chapters. Daily routine, rebel stuff, story routes that lead to nowhere and philosophical talks. Only last book woke up that old feelings from original game.
I was like WOW when I saw Propast first time. I was like WOW when I realised Arcadia is the same place from TLJ. But I wasn't like WOW when I played the game.
Talana
+1
People would be complaining that the puzzles are too hard and that there is not enough story elements.
Gone are the days of placing Constable Guybrush on the box and lighting a fire in the trashcan to lure the janitor out in order to gain entrance to the theater. And gone are the days of taking notes, making maps, and returing to examine that device multiple times before figuring out how it works.
Today an "adventure" game is basically a "movie" game where you push a character thru scenes and select their dialogue.
Look at how they dumbed down the first book of DFC after people complained that the puzzles were too "difficult." This is not a criticizm of DFC in particular but just an observation of the genre as a whole.
If you like classic adventure games check out the RHEM series. You'll actually feel that you've accomplished something when you figure those puzzles out.
The problem is not that Chapters are like movie. The problem is that this movie is not interesting. Daily routine, rebel stuff, story routes that lead to nowhere and philosophical talks - as I said before. There left almost no misteries, neither investigations.
And what are DFC and RHEM?
DFC = Dreamfall Chapters. RHEM is a classic point and click adventure game in the mode of Myst, Riven, Siberia and etc.
Basically RHEM has no story beyond you the Anonymous Traveler have been enlisted to find an artifact. You find yourself in trapped in a large abandoned place called RHEM which is filled with literally dozens of complex puzzles which you must solve in order to find the artifact and escape. The puzzles are wonderfully practical such as changing the level of various waterways to raise or lower bridges to permit your movement thru the world. Or they are key puzzles where you must decypher a symbol system in order to operate a rail car system.
If you like mysteries and puzzles that will challenge you then give it a try.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RHEM
In this game I felt the characters switched a bit too much and forced because they wanted to make sure that there was a point in the book to play as both.
In general I also find it difficult when games do this if both characters aren't written tremendously well because I always end up wishing I could go back to playing the game from my favorite characters point of view.
The politics were a bit annoying too.
Although I disagree about the pacing. I think the storyline scenes were one of series strengths. Play for a while and then sit back with a cup of tea and enjoy the story. It's perfect Sunday-afternoon gaming.
(1) Choices and consequences
(2) Two protagonists
If I were to write a story I think I'd already find just one of these aspects difficult enough to tackle.
I'm particularily torn regarding (1). It feels as if choices and consequences are often overrated by both developers and players. The idea always sounds good theoretically but in the end I think this always leads to cuts in other areas like an overall shorter story or gameplay being reduced to the minimum. All that for story branches you may never even get to see (I rarely replay games these days and the autosaving system of DC isn't exactly the most comfortable to use, I reloaded only a couple of times so far to see short-term differences or to check on world objects I missed examining; maybe I'll do a second playthrough at some point but I just don't know yet so I myself don't immediately have much of a bonus from the story branching).
In any case both (1) and (2) make the writing more complicated than it maybe has to be. And this with a franchise that likes tossing in new lore-aspects or characters into the mix left and right. I can see that this can get messy and a writer's nightmare quickly and thus I guess I understand why the cancelled TLJ: Home. They might just have gotten too ambitious with the whole of it, or maybe just Ragnar Tornquist as I believe to be seeing a pattern not only in this game but in The Secret World too as far as summing up (or not so much...) an extensive world with lots of story, characters and lore is concerned.
Also, I'm not sure if I like how they keep reusing certain locations. I can only go through Marcuria so many times in so many gamey before the city will start to bore me. I think it already does. Please, guys, there are so many other locations you could come up with, there is a whole world with tons of lore at your feet, you got it mapped out even. Make use of that potential, maybe? If you cannot create more locations/make us explore more of that interesting world you've created because you're busy with choices and consequences you can drop that overrated concept if you ask me.
However that doesn't mean the game is bad. I'll be honest: I was struggling with its pacing at times too and put it on pause several times for many months, and it irritates a little that some books seem to be having real puzzles, investigation and stuff to do while I think with book four or so you were mostly just watching things in a Telltale-like way. But I don't necessarily dislike that, things felt tighter and more engaging towards the end, I'm not sure if I would've wanted some hard-nailed finger-biting puzzles/stealthing at that point. On the contrary: In earlier books I sometimes wished for the story to just move on instead of having me to walk somewhat slow-ishy through the messy streets of Propast or Marcuria. So it depends a lot on what tastes and expectations you have towards a game like this. At any rate there is some very great voice acting, aesthetics, characters, lore, music and through that great immersion to make up for the inconsistent gameplay and pacing issues.
Oh, I strongly, strongly disagree there. I love how you get to know the places and the characters. You see how they change and grow. You live in those places.
It really annoys me, really makes me sad, how so many games have you rush from place to place, never learning much about any one place. Never feeling home. That's one of the issues I had with, say, Broken Age (the Double Fine Adventure). It's also one of the things that turn me off of "open world" games.
Really, that the game mainly takes place in these two cities, Propast and Marcuria, is one of the its fundamental strengths. I absolutely and unequivocally love that.
Again, I strongly disagree. Walking there increases your familiarity, your bond with the place. You learn its streets, its sights. The lack of a minimaps, though mildly annoying at first (since I'm quite bad at navigating places), helps the immersion as well.
Your walking speed not necessarily being the fastest around is something that could be seen equally negative. I might have already finished "Winter Voices" if you weren't walking at a snail's pace in that game. I don't want to bash DC because in the end I think I liked it a good deal, but I did play it with many months of breaks inbetween even when more books were already released and sometimes wished for a more fluently flowing story. The later books (4+) seem to be lacking most of the gameplay ideas which they were playing around with in the earlier ones which could mean they either felt something of this too or ran out of ideas/patience themselves, or only realized how they wanted the game to be truly be when they already neared its closure.
But it might be a mix of the gameplay/world design being a bit hiccup-ishy and me impatient. I still haven't finished the very first Witcher game too because its pacing can be slow and moving around tedious (not being able to climb a simple low-height fence but having to take an eventually long detour, something it shares with Dreamfall Chapters). I know that I can have very little patience with games these days. Too many in my Steam library, not nearly enough free time to play them all, and too many other games that can occupy be quicker with more results.
I think it's so-so. Propast looked great and was very immersive but I myself can only go through the same location so many times before it gets a little dull. I mentioned Marcuria specifically because we went through that through all Longest Journey games. And through the same districts at that - I think all the districts in Dreamfall Chapters of Marcuria were in Dreamfall too and not much different. Even if it would make sense story-wise I don't think I'd love the idea to explore this city a fourth time in any other game that may happen. I want to emphasize this as it speaks for the series: I think there is enough lore and narrative background to create more locations/worlds to explore. The whole metaverse idea has literally pushed the door wide-open for the devs that they could do whatever they wanted to do. Like a spin-off with Saga exploring the songlines or whatever (I loved that idea though it came out of nowhere, never heard of something like that before, I hope I remember to Google about it). But I know they cancelled TLJ Home so I'm not sure if it's wise to hope for more.
You could use all manner of silly things to badmouth the game or the devs. Doesn't mean that it be correct or would even make sense.
But they're not 100% reused. They change. The redecoration during the harvest festival, for example. And they're meant to be the same locations.
As a contrast, take Dragon Age II. There you have locations that are meant to be different, but they're entirely the same area each time. But! The area reuse isn't actually the main issue there. The fundamental problem there was that they thought they had to stretch the game with useless combat. The are reuse was just an outgrowth of that wrongheaded thinking.
In Dreamfall: Chapters, you don't have that. The locations mean something. They're not just a backdrop, they're a living, breathing place, a place you know.
Or, if you allow me this analogy, it's like Star Trek: Deep Space Nine. Most of the episodes of that show take place on the space station Deep Space Nine (aka Terok Nor, as it was called under Cardassian rule). While on The Next Generation, you had most episodes take place on some random location.
This lead to a fundamentally different structure in storytelling: in TNG, they solved something in an episode, then off and the issue was never heard from again. But in DS9, since it all centered around this one place, you suddenly had characters and issues that build on top of each other. A problem wasn't as much as solved in one episode, but permeated several episodes, could grow and fester. Suddenly you didn't have a series of one-off episodes you could watch in any order, no, you had a long story told in sequence, each episode continuing the story.
And, in my view, DS9 was the stronger show for that reason.
This, this is why I think concentrating on a few places in Dreamfall: Chapters was the right choice. And yes, I do think that this was an intentional choice and not a budget constraint.
Yes, and seeing Marcuria again like this in this game is absolutely what I wanted from Dreamfall: Chapters. I would have screamed bloody murder if I hadn't. Due to the previous games, the city means something to me. It is an old friend I missed in the years since the last game. Seeing Marcuria again literally brought tears to my eyes. Just like I wept during the end sequence with Lady Alvane.
FINALLY! I felt the exact same way playing Dreamfall: TLJ and Chapters.
I have never understood how so many fans can talk about how great DF:TLJ is and disparage the original.
In line with this, TLJ has been my favourite game since it came out and I wasn't even old enough to properly understand it, I have since replayed it multiple times. When I finally played DF: TLJ I was seriously disappointed, it took 2 years for me to actually start again and complete it, and Zoe did grow on me.... But it felt like they'd just scrapped the entire world of the original TLJ, the notion of the balance didn't feel as strong or important. April's character was so different to the one I fell in love with in TLJ, and although I understand that game creators with any sense or pride do not wish to constantly rehash and retell the same stories the game was so different it didn't feel worthy of the connecting title.
The magic of arcadia was lost completely.
Chapters was less of a disappointment to me but the magic was still lacking. It felt like the creators literally went right out of their way to undo the world created in the original TLJ.
And it was the combination of difficult puzzles AND the immersive story that made TLJ so good, there was so much work put into it, that even slow parts did not feel so slow to me. Everytime I play it I am so emotionally invested, even in characters you hardly interact with. Certain scenes of TLJ always give that feeling of "coming home" that has never been recreated for me in it's successors.
Side notes: Westhouse felt like a gratuitous addition, as his character was conveniently totally different.
I preferred Abnaxus as a vague brown blob.