[SPOILERS] What about the red dragon?

[MrFrengLitch]

Hey

Alright so... Just finished the game. And humm... I have one big question. What about the red dragon saving Brian Westhouse? Cortez? I thought he would make an appearance but nop.

Remember in TLJ after the credits, Brian Westhouse was in a snowstorm and felt in the snow. Then Cortez appeared and said that Brian still had something to do before dying and saved him. I thought Cortez would be revealed to be an actual bad guy and the "master behind it all", which would have been a really cool twist. But nothing was mentioned about him.

But Cortez knew Brian Westhouse had to live. Why? How did he know that? Or am I completely wrong? I'm lost here.

[casualsailor]

Well Cortez and McAllen appeared to kill one another in TLJ. The Blue Dragon was asleep on the ocean floor.

In Dreamfall the young White Dragon tells April that the other 3 are gone when she is telling April that she is not a dragon.

This seems to run counter to the whole cycle of life that the Drac Kin experience.

Here is the dialogue I mention. Its at 22:18 if I failed to get the time loc correct in the link.

https://youtu.be/KAia7VoKnoM?t=1338

[The Ax-Man]

As casualsailor pointed out, it's likely that Cortez/McAllen killed one another at the end of The Longest Journey. Or, at least, injured each other enough to put themselves to sleep. Or, ran off to fight in some other location. I still recall being somewhat confused as to exactly what happened as they fought... As for the Blue, he seems to still be asleep on the ocean floor. That said... given the status of the rest of Arcadia thanks to the Azadi occupation, there's no telling how much their influence could have spread to the ocean itself.

Ragnar Tornquist has stated before that Cortez/The Red Dragon is important to the entirety of The Longest Journey, and specifically the Dreamer arc as well (note the red dragon visuals in parts of WATIcorp HQ, I believe in the original Dreamfall). Considering Cortez is one of the only, if not the only, characters to mention that time is a circle of sorts (something we see strongly with Saga, who is somehow born within the House Between Worlds, aging over who knows how many decades, helping Zoe and Kian well after April Ryan has died, yet still returning to the house in order to help April during the events of The Longest Journey), it's possible that Cortez is familiar with or connected to the knowledge that Saga gains between Books 4 and 5. She knows what is written, she knows time is somehow cyclical... she aids Zoe and Kian much in the same way that Cortez aids Brian.

As a final note for Cortez, I find it absolutely insane that Red Thread/Ragnar decided NOT to include something about him here, especially considering they seem to believe there will likely NOT be a Longest Journey Home title (even though they STRONGLY hinted at it during the events of Book 5). When it comes to the Dragons, and the overall affect that April is supposed to have on these worlds, there's simply far too much left open and untouched. Cortez' involvement, where April and Crow went off to in that space between seen in Book 5, where Brian, Helena, and the Undreaming vanished to (though it does seem like the First Dreamer (that child Zoe was supposed to save) and the Undreaming are two sides of the same coin, now existing in some kind of acceptable union, just like the Balance itself implies)... I can't imagine how Ragnar must feel about that, knowing his story may never be fully told the way he hoped it would.

[casualsailor]

I'm with you Ax. RTG really dropped the ball when it came to the Draic Kin. In TLJ we saw the White die and be reborn. And despite April not being Draic Kin, in DFC we saw her die and Saga born. Even Crow dies and is reborn.

Yet Cortez and McAllen die and are just dead? But why? And what happened to the Blue? The White says someone is hunting the Draic Kin so did someone kill the one on the ocean floor?

I guess something had to be cut from the story but this seems a odd thing to cut being that it is a central theme.

Perhaps you are right and that was done to leave open the opportunity to tell other stories.

[Mr. Nobody]

The lack of Cortez really really bothers me. If he wasn't going to show up in the game, they should never have added that clip to the end of Dreamfall with him helping Westhouse. On top of that, we have quotes from Ragnar himself saying Cortez plays a major part in the Dreamer cycle. I guess everything he did was behind the scenes???

The other irritation was the lack of any real explanation regarding Magnus/Etta/Galath in the HOAW. However, I think this goes hand in hand with the Draic Kin not being explained. I can deal with this because I've never really felt like they were a major focus of the Dreamer cycle. I'd like to know more, but I think this is something that will be explained if TLJH were every to happen, which doesn't sound likely at this point.

On a side note, I really really want to know more about this other mysterious sister of Zoey. We have Faith, Hanna, and now Hope? I almost feel like there has to be some sort of hint in game towards who Hope is, otherwise what's the point in having them mentioned in the first place. Just make it 3 sisters and be done with it. It's something I'm going to keep an eye out for in my second playthrough.

[Reese982]

The Ax-Man a écrit :

As casualsailor pointed out, it's likely that Cortez/McAllen killed one another at the end of The Longest Journey. Or, at least, injured each other enough to put themselves to sleep. Or, ran off to fight in some other location. I still recall being somewhat confused as to exactly what happened as they fought... As for the Blue, he seems to still be asleep on the ocean floor. That said... given the status of the rest of Arcadia thanks to the Azadi occupation, there's no telling how much their influence could have spread to the ocean itself.

Ragnar Tornquist has stated before that Cortez/The Red Dragon is important to the entirety of The Longest Journey, and specifically the Dreamer arc as well (note the red dragon visuals in parts of WATIcorp HQ, I believe in the original Dreamfall). Considering Cortez is one of the only, if not the only, characters to mention that time is a circle of sorts (something we see strongly with Saga, who is somehow born within the House Between Worlds, aging over who knows how many decades, helping Zoe and Kian well after April Ryan has died, yet still returning to the house in order to help April during the events of The Longest Journey), it's possible that Cortez is familiar with or connected to the knowledge that Saga gains between Books 4 and 5. She knows what is written, she knows time is somehow cyclical... she aids Zoe and Kian much in the same way that Cortez aids Brian.

As a final note for Cortez, I find it absolutely insane that Red Thread/Ragnar decided NOT to include something about him here, especially considering they seem to believe there will likely NOT be a Longest Journey Home title (even though they STRONGLY hinted at it during the events of Book 5). When it comes to the Dragons, and the overall affect that April is supposed to have on these worlds, there's simply far too much left open and untouched. Cortez' involvement, where April and Crow went off to in that space between seen in Book 5, where Brian, Helena, and the Undreaming vanished to (though it does seem like the First Dreamer (that child Zoe was supposed to save) and the Undreaming are two sides of the same coin, now existing in some kind of acceptable union, just like the Balance itself implies)... I can't imagine how Ragnar must feel about that, knowing his story may never be fully told the way he hoped it would.

Maybe Uncle Galath is the Read Dragon/Cortez? From what Saga tells us about him, he is very knowledgable about magic and time and knows past, present and future much like Cortez did in TLJ. He also built the wards which is not something a lot of people can do, from what I gathered. And he is also the only people to ever visit the House Between Worlds. I'd hoped he would appear in Dreamfall Chapters, and although he didn't, thinking that he was at least included in the story in some way is great, even if it's just a scarcely supported theory.

[casualsailor]

Galath as Cortez would make some sense. But if you are going that far, how about Magnus is the reincarnated McAllen and Etta is the Blue Dragon from the sea?

That would make Saga, the reincarnated April, part Dragon but not one of the 4 prime Dragons.

Hmmmm.. You guys and your theories.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svYQG_BnAls

[NicoleLauren]

I agree with all that the biggest weakness and missed opportunity with ending TLJ here is that Cortez' story needed to be fleshed out. He was responsible for Westhouse becoming what he did - so was the Red Dragon evil? Or not? What happened?? // And I also agree more with the dragons overall would have been welcome. Aside from these missing elements I think the story wrapped up well.

[Sakurazuka]

What about The Dragon of Spring? April was reincarnated as 2 beings. One is Saga, other is some dragon we never encounter.

[timothy.rogers99]

casualsailor a écrit :

I'm with you Ax. RTG really dropped the ball when it came to the Draic Kin. In TLJ we saw the White die and be reborn. And despite April not being Draic Kin, in DFC we saw her die and Saga born. Even Crow dies and is reborn.

Yet Cortez and McAllen die and are just dead? But why? And what happened to the Blue? The White says someone is hunting the Draic Kin so did someone kill the one on the ocean floor?

I guess something had to be cut from the story but this seems a odd thing to cut being that it is a central theme.

Perhaps you are right and that was done to leave open the opportunity to tell other stories.

If I am remembering the story correctly in TLJ they had said the blue dragon "went silent" which at the time seemed to heavily imply he had died.

[casualsailor]

timothy.rogers99 a écrit :

casualsailor a écrit :

I'm with you Ax. RTG really dropped the ball when it came to the Draic Kin. In TLJ we saw the White die and be reborn. And despite April not being Draic Kin, in DFC we saw her die and Saga born. Even Crow dies and is reborn.

Yet Cortez and McAllen die and are just dead? But why? And what happened to the Blue? The White says someone is hunting the Draic Kin so did someone kill the one on the ocean floor?

I guess something had to be cut from the story but this seems a odd thing to cut being that it is a central theme.

Perhaps you are right and that was done to leave open the opportunity to tell other stories.

If I am remembering the story correctly in TLJ they had said the blue dragon "went silent" which at the time seemed to heavily imply he had died.

The Blue is alive in TLJ when April gets the stone from it.

https://youtu.be/mEnZebcB7Ok?list=PLA1Rkhz57CBG3wCJZzD5JqLf3U-EMfFNU&t=553

But later in DF, the White of the Kin tells April that she is the only one left when she tells April that she is not Draic Kin.

https://youtu.be/KAia7VoKnoM?list=PLA1Rkhz57CBEcm7hRgmDmWU-rI48_kRFA&t=1301

We can assume that Brian killed the Blue for its blood or not.

[Reese982]

casualsailor a écrit :

Galath as Cortez would make some sense. But if you are going that far, how about Magnus is the reincarnated McAllen and Etta is the Blue Dragon from the sea?

That would make Saga, the reincarnated April, part Dragon but not one of the 4 prime Dragons.

Hmmmm.. You guys and your theories.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svYQG_BnAls

True. But McAllan was evil, or at least selfish enough to do horrible things to some people and exploit the Guardian, while Magnus seemed pretty okay to me. However, it could be that he lost his memories/regretted his actions, etc. Although, I do think it was hinted at that Magnus doesn't have any supernatural powers/magic which would be strange for a dragon. Etta as the blue dragon's incarnation makes a lot of sense though.

[casualsailor]

Reese982 a écrit :

casualsailor a écrit :

Galath as Cortez would make some sense. But if you are going that far, how about Magnus is the reincarnated McAllen and Etta is the Blue Dragon from the sea?

That would make Saga, the reincarnated April, part Dragon but not one of the 4 prime Dragons.

Hmmmm.. You guys and your theories.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svYQG_BnAls

True. But McAllan was evil, or at least selfish enough to do horrible things to some people and exploit the Guardian, while Magnus seemed pretty okay to me. However, it could be that he lost his memories/regretted his actions, etc. Although, I do think it was hinted at that Magnus doesn't have any supernatural powers/magic which would be strange for a dragon. Etta as the blue dragon's incarnation makes a lot of sense though.

Well if you think about Eastern Philosophy and the idea of Yin Yang, there is not good and evil, just opposing forces. So McAllen isn't really evil he's just on the opposing side of the Balance from Cortez.

[oniric.sound]

What a mess. The Draic Kins are sorely missed and I hate the implication that Cortez induced Brian to walk a path that lead to genocide.
What a mess.

[IAmTheSteve]

I've been thinking about this too.

The draic-kin came to split the world because humans were becoming too powerful and were destroying the planet.

Come TLJ, there is a threat of the worlds merging, Cortez sends April off to subdue that.

Come Dreamfall, Cortez saves Westhouse, which in turn, gets him possessed by the undreaming which puts things into motion - which ends with the worlds still being split.

There will be a war of the balance and the worlds will merge, but until then, Cortez is still doing everything in his power to prevent that.

I'm thinking he doesn't want to see a species get more powerful than his own.