No one likes raven players?

[Mons7erz]

So, Im curious-Does Raven have a lot of butthurt in the Elsword community or something?
It seems like I see no Raven (well few) players in PvE/PVP. I play as Raven, I have a BM and WT. Is Raven OP in comparison to the rest of the Characters or Do people just not like how fast he can potentially be?

Another thing is people say hes a Lag sensitive character, and it affects the person against it more than it affects the player. I have at one point been lagging on my BM, I could not do crap with him, How does it affect the person playing against a Lag-sensitve Character more than the Player them self? Gotta say, That don't make senes.
Thoughts?

[Mons7erz]

Цитата допису YrsofEXP:

he times I do go out of my way to point out otherwise is if its to show something is atrociously overpowered (like a VC with a +7 level 57 weapon consistently outdamaging a EM with a +10 level 60 weapon).

We've already established that A VC is OP, Im pretty sure everyone would agree there xD I mean really, A ZZZZ combo that doesn't knock you down until you get Maximum damage output, I'd agree OP haha. Overheat too is slightly OP in sesne it doesn't do enough HP damage.

Honestly, I get Evac is the most annoying thing in the world, despite its small chance of occuring. But where would a Raven be without it? And if someone says "Balanced" I would disagree. Like I said getting behind Raven puts them at a disadvantage. Sure, If they've got shadowstep they could get away if they see it coming, but theres a delay between using the skill and actually leaping. The canceling of the skill happens more often then you think. Evac, Like I said, Annoying. 13% Chance, How unlucky right? I understand that it probably means that after roughly 10 hits it would activate. but that is a rough estimate, surely you've seen people use it like it was an active, Their maybe something wrong with between the Stated change and the Actual chance. But why add something so annoying to the Game if it would cause so many problems? Why would the programmers add it in to the game?

I don't think it would be because they thought "Right, we need an OP character, We need him to have an escape mecanisim that activates almost like an active skill"

I don't see that occuring. I ponder you this, Why Add something to the game that will cause so much controversy within the community, or why add something OP such as this if it did not have reason to be there? I mean raven has shadow step, Surely that's enough for an escape, right?
Okay so, I don't know how long you have played, So I could be misjudging this situation as you may have racked up more game time than I, so apologies if it comes off as "I know best" sort of thing. It really is not my intention. I'm just another Raven player :o.

However,You seemed to have mentioned Evacution alot before I started talking about it. I probably missread that somewhere so apologies if I am wrong.

It feels as though that's just the Absoulte reason for players to dislike/hate Raven?

once again, Why add something to the game that would surely cause Conflict between players? Surely that wasn't the programmers intent, Right?

[Star Dream]

Цитата допису El Psy Kongroo:

Цитата допису YrsofEXP:

he times I do go out of my way to point out otherwise is if its to show something is atrociously overpowered (like a VC with a +7 level 57 weapon consistently outdamaging a EM with a +10 level 60 weapon).

We've already established that A VC is OP, Im pretty sure everyone would agree there xD I mean really, A ZZZZ combo that doesn't knock you down until you get Maximum damage output, I'd agree OP haha. Overheat too is slightly OP in sesne it doesn't do enough HP damage.

Honestly, I get Evac is the most annoying thing in the world, despite its small chance of occuring. But where would a Raven be without it? And if someone says "Balanced" I would disagree. Like I said getting behind Raven puts them at a disadvantage. Sure, If they've got shadowstep they could get away if they see it coming, but theres a delay between using the skill and actually leaping. The canceling of the skill happens more often then you think. Evac, Like I said, Annoying. 13% Chance, How unlucky right? I understand that it probably means that after roughly 10 hits it would activate. but that is a rough estimate, surely you've seen people use it like it was an active, Their maybe something wrong with between the Stated change and the Actual chance. But why add something so annoying to the Game if it would cause so many problems? Why would the programmers add it in to the game?

I don't think it would be because they thought "Right, we need an OP character, We need him to have an escape mecanisim that activates almost like an active skill"

I don't see that occuring. I ponder you this, Why Add something to the game that will cause so much controversy within the community, or why add something OP such as this if it did not have reason to be there? I mean raven has shadow step, Surely that's enough for an escape, right?
Okay so, I don't know how long you have played, So I could be misjudging this situation as you may have racked up more game time than I , so apologies if it comes off as "I know best" sort of thing. It really is not my intention. I'm just another Raven player :o.

However,You seemed to have mentioned Evacution alot before I started talking about it. I probably missread that somewhere so apologies if I am wrong.

It feels as though that's just the Absoulte reason for players to dislike/hate Raven?

once again, Why add something to the game that would surely cause Conflict between players? Surely that wasn't the programmers intent, Right?

Replying to bolded

- "Being at a disadvantange when you're behind them" is not exclusive to Raven. And even then, how big of a disadvantage is this? There's no delay for turning around, and the only time that this becomes an issue is if you're mindlessly attacking.

- The game doesn't use pseudo RNG or anything like that. It's always 13% no matter what. And trust me, it happens so often that you'll tear your hair out at times. It's just something that shouldn't be in the game in the first place

- It's pretty much considered that KoG does not know balance considering they even make characters like VC exist.

- I've played since the game arrived in NA, and a bit in the original KR server. So I've seen and been through all the changes. I've played during the time my character was fairly strong, then nerfed to garbage levels, then brought up to being mid-strong level. At the same time, I've been thorugh others being relatively strong, being overpowered as ♥♥♥♥, then shoddy game mechanics making everything overpowered. I keep mentioning shadow strafe and evacuation because the former is a means of raven escaping out of his shield hitstun (when someone eariler kept insisting that was a downside of awakening), while my point is that a passive like evacuation is something that shouldn't even be in the game. I mean another passive that works similiarly is RS' reflect passive, it gives him a 12% chance to reflect any projectiles that hit him (and me being an EM, all of my combos and even some skills involves projectiles, I have a 12% chance on every hit to have my combo ruined or even give him an opening on me)

- I've already mentioned why I personally dislike some of the Raven players, espesically the BMs. In your case, it could just be the typical person that screams "overpowered" at everything they lose, or they've had experience with legitmate doughnut holes.

[Mons7erz]

Цитата допису YrsofEXP:

Цитата допису El Psy Kongroo:

- I've already mentioned why I personally dislike some of the Raven players, espesically the BMs. In your case, it could just be the typical person that screams "overpowered" at everything they lose, or they've had experience with legitmate doughnut holes.

Well Won't aruge with you there. People say the strangest things when they are pissed. haha I've seen a few myself, im pretty sure everyone has at some point in time haha.

As for everything else:

*impressive game time. you've seen some sh!t XD

*That earlier comment(The one stating the reason as to why people hate BM's) wasn't directly aimed at you, I thought I chose my wording carefully to avoid that feeling, Apprently not XD What I meant in that segment was well people can't find another reason to hate Raven players so they just hate the skill XD sad really.

*the hitstun. Like others have said (myself included) I still remain confident that the hitstun is STILL a downside to raven's awakening. I mean It may not be enough to counter-act the core doing more damage then the actual skill itself/ actual combo itself but i still remain firm it is a downside. You don't get evacuation until 60, so earlier levels of PvP remain a bit more difficult considering Shadow Step still has that odd chance of reseting upon usage.

But Im glad to see someone has quite a decent reason to not like Raven Players. to be honest, I don't think just because you've had maybe a few bad experiences with Raven players and those who play him.
Also, thank you for answering that answer towards the progammer segment, I will be honest it was not what I expected, I more expected some half-assed reason as to why they would put something like that in the game. So thank you for that, always nice to have an expirenced player view on that. How was Raven back then anyway? I've only been playing for maybe 2-3 years with breaks in between, but even I have my own Experiences.

[Star Dream]

-Honestly, the hitstun thing is just sorta...there. I mean in the end, it's still reducing damage taken , and it only works against you in hit trades (both sides receiving hitstun, the difference is that Raven's is longer due to blocking, but like I said, he can strafe out of it, and thats usually a safe bet because the other person is also in hitstun from trading with you). Anything outside of hit trades and you legitimately got caught; you'd get combo'd anyway regardless of if core was active or not. And like you said, it doesn't really offset all the other benefit it gives (damage, catching, and especially the heal/mana return at the end)

-And as I've said before, everything I mention takes into account that the players are level capped. If you're not PvPing at level 60, then of course it's going to be different. But now, can you really call someone else overpowered, or mention that you have flaws because you're under leveled?

-Way back when the game came out, BM was relatively weak compared to other characters, but was still capable. He wasn't stuck in a trench where he couldn't do anything at all (that'd belong to classic RS, old EM and to a lesser extent, current TT).
Then they gave him core that initially, was overpowered beyond belief (it wasn't unusual for an awakening -> skill to chop off at least 40% of someone's hp)

And then I swear that every other changes he's gotten acted as if he never had core in the first place...especially the design of VC; All the ravens have access to fairly strong combos and reliable resets (all have X drops, BM has ZZZX~X which hits for 200%~ per hit) topped off with strong skills. The Ravens I'm fighting all manage to deal a good chunk of my HP unless I mana break almost immediately, and they don't even have core out (which would just add onto the damage) If you were to take core out now, then Raven's damage would be relatively tame to everyone, exception being VC. And even then, you still have some design quips like evacuation and ...VC in general...

[Doko]

Raven is like a trian, once he starts comboing he doesn't stop for anything, and only few of his combos give Super armor. BM's ZZZX X~X Gives super armor, thats the one i mostly see. Hell i Do it too."

Erm, let me correct it a bit, XXZZ~Z (after the revamp, 2 Z inputs are enough).

"It really is not my intention. I'm just another Raven player :o."

Which job are you playing on? And what is your level?

Also, *cough*

"I mean raven has shadow step, Surely that's enough for an escape, right?"

Do you know that Shadow Step's animation can easily be cancelled?

Oh well, I'm saying in a not-too-serious way, every character requires skills, Ravens too. Among his 3 jobs, I think:

+ BM: Sucks at intial catching and catching after launching opponent (so I got Shadow instead of Evacuation), hard at combo-timing (yeah, he slashes really fast, I did ZZX<<> with RF and VC in just 2 days, but BM, well, 2 weeks, no less, just an example). But he's very durable (yeah, Bloody Accel + Sonic Slash + Fnisher = almost immortal in dungeons, this combo drains HP from monsters like hell, you may not believe, but I don't even have to use consumes in Secret Dungeon Luto mode at all). Did he got buffs? Yes, I dare say, after the skill revamp, he's a lot more easier to handle.

+ RF: He's just a normal guy in normal state. But when he got you and especially in awakening mode, he's far from deadly. High damage core + exploding skills. Let me tell a just-for-fun story, I had a PVP match with my classmate, he used RF, I used BM. He let me slash him until there's only 1/10 HP on his bar, then, he awakened, full 3 beads, burn my whole HP bar in just 1 combo.

+ VC: Yeah, he's OP, I won't say "you mad?" like trollers or something but players have to watch over his HP bar because of Overheat function. That's all. Easy combo, high damage and burning effect.

Also, I haven't heard anything about Ravens being hated, is that something new recently?
Correct me if I'm wrong.

[The Waffle House]

I'm just gona say this but, the core is real not overpowered, its only overpowered baced on how you use it.
I've played elsword befor the updae for the reaven's rage update, befor you came across a raven and you would beat his face in as a LK, a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ LK, even BM saw kinda weak(once you figure out how to doge "derp")an eve, ashia, rena could easy doge teh RF attacks, RF,( before teh skill tree update) litraly had to be skilled to win with him because all of his skill were stupidly hard to combo off, and if you won a 1v1 as RF you got ither a GG or someone blaming your win on lag.
BM was kinda bad even in early EL. days the factor that you could easy get the OP skills super early(also did you know that BM's common spams*which are final slash and sonic slash* he could get both of them and use them at the same time*excluding skill slot B D: *)
so truly they nerf him so BM isn't full of spam, and RF isn't totaly useless when it comes to noobs trying to combo, also with the raven's rage update give him(IN LITRAL WORD FROM THE RELEASE!!!) A DOUBLE EDGE SWORD.
also to those who are gona still complain about raven go to this website: http://www.elwiki.net/w/Main_Page
READ (I know reading its realy hard) UP on your foes and git gud in pvp, elsword is known for haveing a realy crazy and cool combo's and moves but each one has a weakness, learn it for ♥♥♥♥♥ sake so your not that guy in pvp(you all know what i'm talking about)

also as a closer, around fall of this year EVE IS GONA GET A OP BUFF so don't rage on raven yet.

[xX_420sc0p3sz_xX]

Цитата допису gigiRAR:

also as a closer, around fall of this year EVE IS GONA GET A OP BUFF so don't rage on raven yet.

Dat Queen's Core doe.... effortless catching for hornet sting

[Lasna]

My friend told me that she just thinks that all ravens are just weird

[Mons7erz]

Цитата допису Doko:

Raven is like a trian, once he starts comboing he doesn't stop for anything, and only few of his combos give Super armor. BM's ZZZX X~X Gives super armor, thats the one i mostly see. Hell i Do it too."

Erm, let me correct it a bit, XXZZ~Z (after the revamp, 2 Z inputs are enough).

"It really is not my intention. I'm just another Raven player :o."

Which job are you playing on? And what is your level?

Also, *cough*

"I mean raven has shadow step, Surely that's enough for an escape, right?"

Do you know that Shadow Step's animation can easily be cancelled?

Oh well, I'm saying in a not-too-serious way, every character requires skills, Ravens too. Among his 3 jobs, I think:

+ BM: Sucks at intial catching and catching after launching opponent (so I got Shadow instead of Evacuation), hard at combo-timing (yeah, he slashes really fast, I did ZZX<<> with RF and VC in just 2 days, but BM, well, 2 weeks, no less, just an example). But he's very durable (yeah, Bloody Accel + Sonic Slash + Fnisher = almost immortal in dungeons, this combo drains HP from monsters like hell, you may not believe, but I don't even have to use consumes in Secret Dungeon Luto mode at all). Did he got buffs? Yes, I dare say, after the skill revamp, he's a lot more easier to handle.

+ RF: He's just a normal guy in normal state. But when he got you and especially in awakening mode, he's far from deadly. High damage core + exploding skills. Let me tell a just-for-fun story, I had a PVP match with my classmate, he used RF, I used BM. He let me slash him until there's only 1/10 HP on his bar, then, he awakened, full 3 beads, burn my whole HP bar in just 1 combo.

+ VC: Yeah, he's OP, I won't say "you mad?" like trollers or something but players have to watch over his HP bar because of Overheat function. That's all. Easy combo, high damage and burning effect.

Also, I haven't heard anything about Ravens being hated, is that something new recently?
Correct me if I'm wrong.

Quite note on shadow step-That was me coming trying to replicate an opinion that comes from outside the elsword community, I did state earlier that Shadowstep could easily be canceled with so much of a hit.

Secondly; Yeah I play BM, Although when I wrote this post, I hadn't played him in a fair while, so the actual combo ZZZX X~X Might have been wrongly displayed haha. Yeah That is a common one, Deals an immense amomunt of damage ,plus the super armour.

Thirdly-VC is just VC. XD A very large amount of damage output from normal combos, Stupidly large amounts of damage.

And, Yeah Raven (from my experience,anyway) has alot of hate in the community, I
m surprised you haven't seen this much. As YrsofEXP stated, at least hes got a legitimate reason(s) to not like Ravens, I mean some of the people I meet just hate him because he kicks thier butts in PVP (As YrsofEXP said, Typically people who scream OP everytime they get beat down by a Raven)

Sadly, I rarely see RF's in PvP :( I enjoy fighting them because its interesting to see how people handle the speed of the combos, people say hes slow, but i beg to differ.

[Mons7erz]

Цитата допису Pyonage:

My friend told me that she just thinks that all ravens are just weird

Depends on how you mean "Weird" xD Normally I'd say "We're all weird! :D"
But, in this situation it doesn't apply D:

[76561198102799856]

Цитата допису YrsofEXP:

Цитата допису Yukio:

[

See what I am saying is... (this only happens in the front of a Raven during awakening) If you were just to hit the Raven once the Core Shield comes up to protect Raven by absorbing that hit which delays him from moving for again about 4-5 seconds at best, he can't just "get out immediately" I mean try comparing this to just normally hitting them. Ravens you are usually comboing on are pretty fast at that point yes, they can just jump out of it and such. Using core doesn't really give you much advantage either too, cause one everyone has an awakening that boost there power for some deration it's just how Raven's awakening is "uniqueness" is what I call it, and two if you haven't noticed core can actually miss the target ( usually misses when trying to hit in the air or sometimes the angling of it just isn't right which also effects some other skills), even on the ground sometimes it can miss, so it's not like it's totally reliable.
Again Raven's core its not really overpowered it's just a challenge to overcome Raven's have used core a lot and people win against them some have no problems, some again just how it is. It's just whether you overcome the challenge or not. Every character has there weakness saying some character is "Overpowered or what they do is overpowered" is just silly, anyone can say this but, in the end the Overpowered talk is not true at all, again other people have beaten them so, why can't anyone else?

Replying to bolded parts...

-His hitstun in core is nowhere near that long, a second at the longest. And even then, did you forget that he can shadow strafe out of the blocking animation?

- Everyone has awakening that boosts damage by 20%. Raven has that damage boost on top of core which acts as another source of damage.

-Core only misses if you graze the target (which means lag is involved). Otherwise, it hits without fail because it auto aims after a successful hit.

- There's a difference between calling something overpowered because you can't beat it, and something overpowered because it is legitmately overpowered. Hell, you thought some of the stuff Aisha or Chung has was overpowered, despite not knowing what it actually does >_>. It's not even an opinion that some of the stuff I've mentioned is overpowered, but its all statistically on paper and numbers. Or are you going to try and convince people that "69% damage reduction isn't overpowered" or "killing an overgeared classin one hit/combo with average gear isn't overpowered"?

Well, again as I have said I am pretty sure in one of my earlier post that again I don't know the exact names or info on the moves considering again I didn't do any research on them so, your basically stating something I already said, again I wasn't sure.
Alright Ravne has that extra 20% right? Just another extra edge in battle like some of therother characters like Rena for example with her double just which she can reach higher places much faster than any normal character would, or Elsword and Elesis with that Aura thing whatever it is, which from my point of view which I have seen gives them a little invincibility for some time so the part I don't see is what is wrong with an extra edge we all have it's not that big of an issue and as a matter of fact I don't even hear most of the community complaining about this even a little. And that is not true either lag doesn't have to be involved. I fought someone with a good connection another Raven like myself also doing this made me a smooth sailor too (Lag free as I call it) once we started fighting he used awakening/core (Lot of Ravens liek to keep me in the air) He knocked me in the air, Used Hedgehog core came at me, but it missed this doesn't happen too much, but sometimes you do get a break once in a while, So, really you can't say too much on this part cause I have personally witnessed this even more than once. Difference in being overpowered? When one these so called "overpowered things" have been beaten cause one, they have weakness obviously so, that definitely doesn't make them overpowered but, just a little harder to win against, and two while your talking about how something is overpowered those people out there who are just figuring out weakness and just playing to get better and learn more on how to defeat these people heck some say fighting Ravens is easy, but yeah everyone isn't the same so. Also noting that for one it's not like I said everything up here is based on opinion first off and it's not really the fact that I don't know it's more of an observation so, it would really be called "misinformed". Who am I trying to convince btw?< When did I ever even imply such things? Heck I just came here too simply comment nothing more. There's such a thing called Mana Break true you can't do it all the time but, why would you let someone one hit combo you when you have the chance, and again if your a high level with op gear and can't beat a Raven when he's using core too either then there is something very wrong, ( Also most people know advanced steps too btw, so, what there doing there thing but, called op when the practiced and trained for this stuff right? makes total sense.

[The Waffle House]

Цитата допису Lain:

Цитата допису YrsofEXP:

Replying to bolded parts...

-His hitstun in core is nowhere near that long, a second at the longest. And even then, did you forget that he can shadow strafe out of the blocking animation?

- Everyone has awakening that boosts damage by 20%. Raven has that damage boost on top of core which acts as another source of damage.

-Core only misses if you graze the target (which means lag is involved). Otherwise, it hits without fail because it auto aims after a successful hit.

- There's a difference between calling something overpowered because you can't beat it, and something overpowered because it is legitmately overpowered. Hell, you thought some of the stuff Aisha or Chung has was overpowered, despite not knowing what it actually does >_>. It's not even an opinion that some of the stuff I've mentioned is overpowered, but its all statistically on paper and numbers. Or are you going to try and convince people that "69% damage reduction isn't overpowered" or "killing an overgeared classin one hit/combo with average gear isn't overpowered"?

Well, again as I have said I am pretty sure in one of my earlier post that again I don't know the exact names or info on the moves considering again I didn't do any research on them so, your basically stating something I already said, again I wasn't sure.
Alright Ravne has that extra 20% right? Just another extra edge in battle like some of therother characters like Rena for example with her double just which she can reach higher places much faster than any normal character would, or Elsword and Elesis with that Aura thing whatever it is, which from my point of view which I have seen gives them a little invincibility for some time so the part I don't see is what is wrong with an extra edge we all have it's not that big of an issue and as a matter of fact I don't even hear most of the community complaining about this even a little. And that is not true either lag doesn't have to be involved. I fought someone with a good connection another Raven like myself also doing this made me a smooth sailor too (Lag free as I call it) once we started fighting he used awakening/core (Lot of Ravens liek to keep me in the air) He knocked me in the air, Used Hedgehog core came at me, but it missed this doesn't happen too much, but sometimes you do get a break once in a while, So, really you can't say too much on this part cause I have personally witnessed this even more than once. Difference in being overpowered? When one these so called "overpowered things" have been beaten cause one, they have weakness obviously so, that definitely doesn't make them overpowered but, just a little harder to win against, and two while your talking about how something is overpowered those people out there who are just figuring out weakness and just playing to get better and learn more on how to defeat these people heck some say fighting Ravens is easy, but yeah everyone isn't the same so. Also noting that for one it's not like I said everything up here is based on opinion first off and it's not really the fact that I don't know it's more of an observation so, it would really be called "misinformed". Who am I trying to convince btw?< When did I ever even imply such things? Heck I just came here too simply comment nothing more. There's such a thing called Mana Break true you can't do it all the time but, why would you let someone one hit combo you when you have the chance, and again if your a high level with op gear and can't beat a Raven when he's using core too either then there is something very wrong, ( Also most people know advanced steps too btw, so, what there doing there thing but, called op when the practiced and trained for this stuff right? makes total sense.

just wana contribute but...
the high lvl the people that stomp you are usaly people like me where they know what their dealing with like fighting a elsword IS, they had experience with fighting aginst the class you are and can predict your moves. (cuz knowledge is power :D)
I'm just saying that if your gona complain about the core and already know about it coming then its like wineing about Ryu and Ken being the easiest charcters in street fighter becuse of their move set.
just quit wining, buck up, enter a sparing room and spar with a raven, and read up on their attack on elwiki.net and gut gud ya nub.

[AethonWalker]

I never thought of specific characters having attitudes. I play as Raven, and in the couple of weeks of playthrough I wondered why people would get pissed at me. I'm generally a nice person, and I loved chatting with people, but this explains the cold welcomes.

The only bad thing I have to say about RF is his speed. I hate PVP because I get stun locked all the time. I'm also not very good with buff systems, so that's problematic, but so far most of the equipment I build up, most of his damage seems to lack a strong edge to it. I recently got into using Aisha because she is based mainly on magic, rather than being all around decent.

Finally, I don't appreciate the PVP arena setting at all. I don't fight people except when sparring with friends because I would get paired up with people many levels higher than myself. Even if we have the same damage, they have an edge because they have more skills. It's just unfair, and I think anybody could agree with that. I refuse to fight players more than 5 to 10 levels out of my range, because I want to fight at the same grounds. I've played matches as a level 12 Raven where I was pitted against level 50s, and all I could do was evade attacks until I could use his punching skills to blow them away. One hit takes a good chunk of health, while Cannon Blade only takes a smidgen. You can understand my frustration.

So far, I myself haven't met many snobby players, except in terms of level. I suppose you get some right to brag that you got your character to a level 60, but many people seem to be rather nice. If you don't like the player's attitude, either ignore them or leave. Many players don't like getting stereotyped, especially in a game they only chose a character based on looks and description. That's hopefully not too much to ask, right?

[Raevenent]

I've never encountered any Raven haters, I honestly think Raven is badass, I enjoy using my Reckless Fist, usually the haters are just people always pointing a finger to play the blame game just because you get the best of them.

"Lag Raven noob"

Honestly, I've dealt with a lot of laggy players(Laggy Ravens, laggy Elswords, etc) good players fighting a lagger know how to deal with it.

[Ffom]

look as a RF raven I cant hit very far, nor can i shoot.I rarely see any ravens in pvp but i see a ton in pve. we are not that op