Blackwell Epiphany ending (Spoilers!)

[chris]

So i was looking forward to this game a lot and it was a very bittersweet feeling for me to play the final blackwell game. I took my time (my first playtrough took me 9 hours) and i think i enjoyed it more by drawing it out a little.

I had a feeling that Madeline might be behind the ghosts dying after talking to her for the first time, thought i expected it to be because she went berserk after losing her host and being in the void for so long.
What really surprised me was when she revealed that she had been the reason why Lauren and Rosa's grandma went mad and had to die. That was the point where i lost my sympathy for her, since i really liked Lauren, even if she wasnt as invested in the soulsaving business as Rosa.

The fact that Rosa had to die in the end may make sense storywise, but i felt it was so unfair after saving every single lost soul on the planet(except joey).
I LOVE Rosa and Joey as a team, and i had hoped they really would get a vacation and after a while start doing their thing again. Knowing that Madeline caused the breakdowns in her family, they wouldn't have to do it in fear of rosa going crazy anymore, but purely because they belive in the work they're doing.

I really hope that turning Joey into a living, breathing Person again will give him the ability to move on eventually and that he wont forget about rosa, or rather, the blackwells, comletely.

So, the Ending for me was heartbreaking, it wasnt the Ending i wanted, but the one the Story needed. Nothing can last forever, and it is better to end Blackwell in a fulfilling way instead of drawing it out endlessly.

So thank you Dave, for making this awesome Series happen, for this awesome last game - and damn you for making me cry like a little girl.

[Delta]

Actually I'm fine with the Rosa dying part (narritavely I mean, obviously it's sad). They said possession drives a person insane, and I kinda like that they didn't allow Rosa to break the established rules just through some magic willpower or something, that always feels like a bit of a cop-out (though maybe I'm just being cynical).

My problem was with the sudden increase in scale (story's previously been small-scale and personal, but suddenly the whole city will be destroyed for some contrived reason? Seemed like a slightly cheap attempt to raise the stakes rather than an organic plot progression) and the indoruction of new mystical elements (Rosa'a Will of the Universe stuff and Joey's resurrection) without any foreshadowing or proper introduction.

Again, I really liked the game, especially the darkest hour in the hospital and the emotive ending, but a few of the plot details seemed a bit clunky and not properly established which slightly marred an otherwise great experience. Personal taste I guess.

[Foxhack]

I already bugged Dave Gilbert with this over Twitter, but:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=946lSJU9Yps

Oh man. Just... the ending was going all silly happy yay vacation time then no nope Rosa's gonna die no helping it nope no she gotta die.

At least when she died, she helped -every spook- in the world (universe?!) and helped Joey come back to life. He settled things with Danny in the previous game, so other than his duty as a guide, and his attachment (no pun intended) to the Blackwell family, he really had no reasons to remain on this side.

And the minute Madeline mentioned the Countess I put one and one together and realized it was the girl who was with her when Joey was rescued. I actually said Holy .

What I want to know is this.

A) Joey crossed over. Why was he chosen to become a guide? Why doesn't he remember crossing over?

B) What is this about Commissioner Silva? Is this mentioned in the commentary?

C) It was a pretty weird coincidence how both this game and Murdered Soul Suspect share a specific plot point. I know this game came first. I just found it kind of funny.

[Delta]

As for answers:
A) It's never explained, which I think is a shame. Despite revealing how he died the game doesn't really explore him much or why he's there.

B) I'm a bit hazy but I think the previous game implied Rosa would be taking on the cabal of emotion-eating psychic vampires revealed at the end of the previous chapter of the story. IIRC at the end of the game the Commissioner did a broadcast saying they would bring to justice the killer (of the vampire, i.e. Rosa), implying the vampire cabal has ties to law enforcement.

Unfortunately that whole plot arc got axed by the look of things, meaning Rosa's resolve to take them down at the end of the previous game never gets any payoff.

C) Haven't played Murdered but wouldn't surprise me if these games crib plot points off each other (ghost who has to solve their own murder is a common plot hook in these stories).

Speaking of ghost games, I recommend checking out Ghost Trick: Phantom Detective on the DS (and maybe other devices?) at some point. It's by the Pheonix Wright guys so you know it'll be funny, but unlike those titles there's a strong central plot and actual gameplay.

[animaniac]

It's a pretty good twist that Joey was just at the wrong place at the wrong time. There 's nothing special about him, he just became a guide by accident.

Still, I can't forgive Gilbert for thinking killing Rosa was a good way to end the series. It's been overused in recent years and it closes the series with too many unanswered plot lines.

[Foxhack]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Delta:

B) I'm a bit hazy but I think the previous game implied Rosa would be taking on the cabal of emotion-eating psychic vampires revealed at the end of the previous chapter of the story. IIRC at the end of the game the Commissioner did a broadcast saying they would bring to justice the killer (of the vampire, i.e. Rosa), implying the vampire cabal has ties to law enforcement.

Unfortunately that whole plot arc got axed by the look of things, meaning Rosa's resolve to take them down at the end of the previous game never gets any payoff.

It didn't imply it, I was sure that the fifth game would deal with Rosa looking for them and taking them down somehow. But well. :(

I just thought the ending for Deception implied that Rosa's actions just got her noticed by the police without outright saying that they would be hunting her for her work as a Bestower, but more like they would be looking for her for killing Gavin (unrelated to the whole vampire thing.)

I dunno.

Do you really think Rosa would be the kind of person to go and hunt down these spiritual vampires? Maybe if there was some sort of Bestower organization... but that is never said, so...

[Delta]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Foxhack:

Do you really think Rosa would be the kind of person to go and hunt down these spiritual vampires? Maybe if there was some sort of Bestower organization... but that is never said, so...

Heck yes she'd hunt thejm down and stop them. Rosa gives a whole speech at the end of Deception saying she can't just react to these threats anymore and has to be more proactive and go on the offensive. She knows this shadowy cabal exists and is harming people the way Deception's villain did her and the other victims, and she seems resolved to do whatever it takes to stop them.

That's an interesting change in her approach and character arc, so it's a shame the sequel basically ignored it.

[GabrielK]

I might have to play again... but some parts don't make sense at all.

Also, certain motivations are unclear, I do understand the Countess' frustration, that led her to "imprison" Madeline in the void in the past, but that woman simply wanted a break from her duties (understandable), not to break the bond per se.
To me it seems like her journey from being a bestower with a spirit guide to the mad woman that we know was just a matter of a short time.

And as others mentioned, the energy leecher sub-plot is never resolved.

God-like powers seemed off as well, one of my faves regarding the Blackwell series was, that it was just one or two steps away from reality.
The characters were believeable, if it were the spooks, the main cast or whatever.
But this... vortex-saving-all-spooks-then-die-turning the spirit-guide-into-a-mortal-human-again was just too much...

And again, not having a romantic ending in mind.... but simply giving Rosa something after all that hardship, not only since she inherited Joey through family, but we are talking about a five year old girl that gets "rescued" from her raging aunt before latter gets admitted to the hospital and falls into a coma until she dies, while Rosa grows up at foster homes.

And Rosa... always knowing herself that even without the gift is not the most social person... still tries to "fit" in.
If it is her neighbor or the moment she gets closer to the artist that is killed by the Countess.

So yes, regardless of how much I liked the series, this ending seems off and gives me a feeling that no matter what, nobody gets something out of it.
Rosa dies without achieving peace and after a hard life, Joey is alive again but must feel completly fallen out of time etc.

So, sorry... but though I like how polished and long THIS game is and that it was Gilbert's intention to bring the series to an end, I just have to say, I don't like the way it was wrapped up.

[Delta]

I seem to remember some implication somewhere that the Countess was manipulated into sealing away Madeline by the energy vampires, the same way Rosa is persuaded to at the end of Deception. Don't think this was shown in Epiphany though, apart from maybe Countess's mantra of freedom when she does away with Madeline.

[Phoenix-san]

Just finished the game..
Had to replayed previous games before starting this.
I was sure that epiphany will be about Rosa and Joey fighting Soul Vampire's cabal, with Police comissioner with them i presume. Really disappointed that they dropped that plotline.
The ending feels too bitter. My night spoiled :(

[Kalisto]

I really liked the game. As always good job!
I was slightly disappointed by the very, very end. When she fell down I had hoped that Joey and Rosa would go to light together. That he would stay with her until the end and only after that could move on. The resurrection thing was just so sudden and made it seem like a door is open for spin-off with Joey. Which I would not be against, but if that's not planned then I'm sad I'll never know the end to his story. Maybe if the ending was extended a bit to see him how he actually lives on even during the credits would have made the closure more fulfilling.

But that's pretty much my only thing. Loved everything else :)

[Ceriden]

Finished it yesterday and would agree with the majority that the ending wasn't bad it was just not fulfilling in a closure kind of way.

Was about to write that I don't remember any reference to bestowers going insane. Then remembered that Madeline implied that something would happen to Rosa, when she was forced out. But the n i g g l e (That's not a bad word Steam) is that, to my knowledge, we don't have a clear answer to the insanity question. I don't remember meeting any other active bestowers to confirm the claim. The Blackwells and Countess were all being affected by Madeline in some fashion and Michael couldn't fully be one due to Benjiro's influence.

I figure Dave couldn't figure out a way to have a story about the vampire's. Also he didn't want to work on the Blackwell universe again either for lack of interest or ability to conceive of another story. Also don't think the fans of the series would accept a change of protaganists. Though I would have been interested in one where Joey was the Bestower and Rosa the ghost.

All in all I do come away from this game and the entire series with a net positive. The world functioned with set rules and when new things happened they were plausible. As opposed to say the space child. I game because of story and that's what Blackwell provided and did a good job of it.

[Ailes]

The twist didn't make much sense to me mainly for Gavin. If I remember well he was refering to whatever force that tore him apart (that means supposedly Madeleine) as "they". He was making phone calls to some sort of cult/organization he worked for. He genuinely seemed to fear something, a force his organization might have had a contract with or not, at the very least knew in ways. There didn't seem to be even the slightest indication that this force was supposed to be Madeleine. As such it felt a little like a cheap "the butler did it" thing. A reviewer wrote that Gilbert had this ending planned all along but I'm sorry I don't buy it. I too was expecting Rosa and Joey to fight Gavin's organization and as such the twist/entire last third or so and ending felt a little "meh".

I was seeing a less closed ending. There would've been room for spin-offs with Madeleine and Michael getting to know each other. But everything went kinda over the edge.

[Ailes]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Ceriden:

[...] Also don't think the fans of the series would accept a change of protaganists. [...]

♥♥♥♥ that, it's such fan entitlement that prevents games like FFXIII-2/Lightning Returns or The Walking Dead from unleashing their full potentials. Is Gilbert writing for himself or to appease fans? Writers shouldn't lick their readers/players' boots.

[rockabore]

I just finished it a few minutes ago. I absolutely love the series and I don't hate the ending... but I have issues with it. I wouldn't have minded Rosa passing on since she went out a hero and earned the right to see her family in the next life. Personally for Rosa I'd have preferred to see her live. She grew so much with each game giving her character focus to grow as a person and make friends and be less socially awkward and to me that was the message of the 4th Game. I mean she did do that but it's still a shame that it was cut so short.

Joey being resurrected just felt needless to me (other than for the scattering of ashes ending) Joey has lived long past his natural death and he was ready to move on way back when he met Madeline and Contis back in the 1920s. Having him be resurrected seems more of an unfortunate burden for him to bear rather than a 2nd chance. After all he has no one close to him alive in present day, no money, no place to live, no Rosa, and he's proudly a curmudgeon about modern conveniences that everyone else in the world is used to. He's basically set up to be a wanderer and lonely.

It's sad cause I LOVE Joey though (he's my favorite character) and I'd have preferred to have him move on and get to reunite with Lauren since Dave Gilbert said that Joey loved Lauren and felt yearning to express his feelings for her but couldn't back when they were partners. I think it would've been a more satisfying ending for Joey to move on and finally be with her personally. I mean inevitably Joey will die someday but it seems like Rosangela wasn't doing him a favor by forcing him to adapt to a world he's become jaded by.

I'm also infuriated that Madeline got exactly what she wanted, she DESTROYED the souls of characters that the player grows to care about and relate to (I certainly did feel for Peter and Heather and Michael) and It broke my heart that they ended up not being saved. It bugs me that Madeline did get her wish. The people she killed deserved it, not her.

[Archanioł]

I finished this game yesterday.
Ending sequence is just very bad.
Ending doesn't fit with story presented in previous games at all (especially with Deception)
All souls saved (except Joey). Rosa dies. Joey alive. Durkin just disappered in the middle of a game without a word.
Deception ending was more mysterious and i had hope that there will be answer in this title but looks like somebody trashed this idea. Gilbert just trashed almost everything from the past.
This is perfect example how whole series shouldn't end.
I love normal endings (books or games) and i prefer happy endings when whole franchise ends.
This trash ending reminds me Fahrenheit game. First part was brilliant but second part was just a garbage.
This for Gilbert