A Game About Murder in the First Degree.

[Sunbow]

I've made this point before - there are way too many violent video games. I'm not talking about team games like Counter Strike, where you work with other people and develop tactics and have a match; but the games that take it to another level where violence is the central theme in the story, like Assasins Creed, Far Cry 3 and GTA and so on. This title appears to be another one of those.

May be we should reflect a bit on how depraved these games actually are. And for those of us with children, would you be happy if your teenagers were playing games like these?

[edit] - Just clarified this and toned it down to make it less troll-like. Also changed "kids" to "teenagers", as it caused some confusion.

[Tyrant (My Vision is Augmented)]

Have you played a hitman title? Violence is hardly the central theme. In fact, if you were to make a list of ALL the things that are important in a Hitman title, "violence" probably wouldn't even be in the top 20 list.

Hitman is a stealth game, and like all stealth games, it is a puzzle game at heart. The central themes to Hitman are problem solving, attnetion to detail, and creative thinking. The emotions that these try to provoke in the player are tension and satisfaction. Imagine soduku where the puzzle is actively trying to keep you from solving it... and you have a very good idea of what hitman is about and the process the player's brain goes through when trying to successfully complete a mission. Imagine the thrill of sneaking in somewhere you weren't supposed to be as a child and getting away with it. You have an idea of the emotions the games attempt (and generally succeed) at evoking.

The issue at hand is that the OP is woefully uneducated in this series, made base assumptions after watching a quick video on the internet or playing a bit of Absolution (with no consideration for the entire work of the 4 other games in the series, which has been around for over a decade), and come here to spout some nonesence.

If you REALLY have a problem with violence in your media, you look like quite a fool for talking about it here. Hitman is rather lite on the violence. Heck, across 5 games, I reckon I've "killed" less than 40 people... and spent countless hours planing and observing and just... walking around.

As a parting concept... have you ever played chess? I belonged to a chess club when younger, and I must say, in my years of playing, I have slaughtered thousands. Countless knights cut down with swords and lances, poor foot soldiers run aground, towers sieged - royalty beheaded and hung, feet still twitching as I walked away. Chess is remarkably violent. The only difference is the dressing... how we paint it. Moving wooden pieces around a board doesn't feel violent at all, but they are obvious analogues for warfare. I think it is important - if not essential - for us to ask what has changed. Moving your thumbs around and pecking at keys and watching pictures move on a screen doesn't feel violent. But it's an obvious analogue for sneaking into a man's room and slitting his throat with a kitchen knife. If you consider Hitman violent and chess innocent, I think you should ask yourself why that is... and at what point the change happens. I can promise you, if Hitman is to be considered violent, it pales in comparison to the atrocities I've committed on the chess field -- calcualted acts of positioning disposable soldiers, all to commit regicide - to assassinate one man.

[Acid-Seltzer]

I do think you have a legitimate point. I'm sixteen and I my favourite kind of games are ones that are violent and purile for the sake of being violent and purile, like POSTAL 2, and, really, I shouldn't be but ,when given the opportunity to play games like that, I wouldn't turn it down because I find that fun and it hasn't affected me morally thus far, I'm still sqeamish in real life and understand that killing, torture, rape and defecating on corpses is wrong. Still, age ratings are in place for legitimate reasons and, whilst I don't abide by them, I can see why playing a game like POSTAL 2 or GTA 5 would make a younger person feel upset or uncomfortable. I also agree that the market is oversaturated with games that in some way include killing or maiming people and, whilst I don't think that this is necessarily a bad thing or a partucularly important subject matter, I think it would be nice to see more games innovate into ways of interacting with your environment which don't involve some kind of weapon.

[Pie Filler]

our lives is all about testing our boundries , as 1 (sane) can't go outside and do what he does, we get to simulate that in video games, hardcore driving , epic team battles, magic and wizard'ish crap , games don't seduce you or suggest you to try it in the real world , games REPLACE the idea of doing it in the real world , Sane people don't need to copy what they see in the game as they are able to do it and enjoy it , there is pleasure of being able to , slash throats and setting up horrible traps , then again , all fictional with no suggestion for real life stuff , they did not put real like characters just for that very reason , not to motivate people, the idea is to simulate the experience , and this is what companies battle for , who can deliver the most realistic game that'll drag you out of the real life zone and push you into the gaming world.

Hitman is a great example , you probably can barely do 1 out of the 1000 possible features (ingame) in the real world (you can only do 1 thing out of 1000 in the real world) , you can't sneak like that , you can't change clothes taht easily , you can't kill people and sneak and dodge and , not jsut like that not jsut waking up and being lik "GOD IM TIRED OF LIFE IMMA GO BE HITMAN1!!!! tananananananananananananananna HIIIIITMANNNN :D" nope o.o , sadly , but nope.

also , the illusion of respawning , the more you die the more you understand how critical death is.

I palyed BO2 for a lot of time , the MP , with time i was getting very scared, with time i was like "wow...death is...not so much of a joke" , i died lots of times, and then i figured that its like , its just a game , and the more you die the mroe you can see it.

there is nothing bad about video games, should be embraced and developed.

The same way we could've said "Fantasy games are bad , they make you try do magic in real life and attempt to hurt others with casts and spells" , its just like , no , its just a game and trust me companies do alot so a game won't be suggestive to real life action.

I hope this brings light upon you.

Games are made to enjoy , yes, scary to think they may motivate someone , but its probably too hard to do , to my opinion.


Cheers ^.^<3.

[el Cheeto]

Sounds like the only person thats comparing it to reality and saying its a problem is you!

Also you point involving FPS games saying there acceptable because they build teamwork and tactical strategy is invalid and biased! if your going to complain about games being nothing but violence and say how there wrong then you do that for all games and no just personal ones you want to put down! SO that means you precious FPS games (which rarely anyone works together online if i may add) Are more to the point of killing others then any other game! More then the hitman games as well!

In fact in hitman in every level you only have one main target! and to get to that target you can leave every other character alone thus making your FPS resort more around killing then Hitman since an FPS is "kill anyone who is an enemy or they will kill you". I can do a similar comparison with all the other games you mentioned where its about player choice! and it comes down to how the player wants to go about the game since all those games have sense of "freedom".

Now, if you wish to be as naive and biased as you presented yourself then makesure you don't show it and leave yourself wide open! Due to being biased personal anything you have said contains no meaning to anyone else this remaining a void statement and seen as nothing but a trol comment! So enjoy and such it up!

[Sklave]

This is a game not a qualification to a murder :D

[el Cheeto]

Цитата допису Akku Amde:

This is a game not a qualification to a murder :D

if it was a qualification to murder then that would be the easiest entry ever xD

[Trejos]

And what do you suggest? To censor these games? Prohibit violence? Of course it is not suitable for young audiences, but that doesn't mean that violence in video games should dissappear as a thing. Just because it is extremely violent doesn't mean that people playing it can't discern it from reality, same applies to cinema and violent music. If I like listening to Cannibal Corpse that doesn't mean im going to eat a bunch of people.

So yes, violence in games is fine, and if you are not happy about your kid playing these games then don't let them. I want my games violent and blood dripping.

[LeGloriousUnderboob]

Tl;DR: Non-existent.

This seems a point that should be aimed at games other than Hitman. It's a point that is stated by many under different contexts, be it the gamers' complaint that there's just too little creativity or originality in todays market or your kinda outdated pretense of excessive video game violence being a danger to society.

As games are becoming more cinematic and are an increasingly popular medium for story-telling, the situation isn't too different from that of cinemas. Developers tend to follow a checklist of what a game in the genre should have, give it a nice coating and sell it of as a brand new project. Off the top of your head, how many games do you know that don't rely on violence much or at all are very successful (mostly platformers I think). There are some but those are a few because it's much harder trying to innovate in a way that you can't predict will sell well or not instead of using tried-and-tested practices in development that have repeatedly proven to be very successful and enjoyable.

Only in a few cases now do I see people rehashing this argument against video games, it's getting weaker and weaker as more people have essentially become gamers (be it on consoles, PC, mobile devices or internet T.V.s), kids and adults alike, and while you go around stating your point as a fact actual studies have been done and have not concluded a relation b/w video games and violence.

It seems you don't know the concept of narrative. Many of those violent games are popular for their narrative and game development has been leading up to getting you as engaged in the story/characters as possible or giving you the freedom to write your own fantasy story. Far Cry 3 is a question of what you are willing to do to survive and to save your friends, and whether you believe in destiny. Assassin's Creed, somewhat similar to Hitman I guess, is about the (classic) secret world of espionage but is also an interesting and incredibly large scale tale of conspiracy (AFAIK, dunno if AC4 nullifies it.)

But the narrative and gameplay are often two seperate things I believe and games that focus on the former and skimp on the latter are sometimes (mockingly) called interactive movies. Games are essentially a mental (or physical) challenge and that's where action & objective come in. Most of the action nowadays involves shooting people/things and as graphics are improving you're afraid the images are too close to reality. As games give people more freedom, countermeasures are placed to prevent GTA-like antics; some games will fail you for killing multiple citizens, some games will make you lose points, wealth, reputation, gameplay time etc. and some games like the Witcher series make you question the lives you take as they are usually of significance and can alter the narrative. GTA's countermeasure (if any) is perhaps the cops/military attacking you but that has become a fun challenge in itself ('cause the consequences leave no impression).

Other countermeasures, I guess, include giving players more objectives and activities to do + achievements to put on display. E.g. GTAV is a much bigger world than before that has a lot to discover, a lot to do in your spare time, many player-developed challenges and activities etc. so running around shooting people is really a waste of game time, also, NPC have more character and are in effect more interesting to observe than kill (IMO.) Most of the mindless violence is for the entertainment of others (i.e. to put on uTube and whatnot).

Coming back to Hitman, it's perhaps the best example of gameplay that encourages less killing and more intelligence: the more people you kill (aside from the target, whom is usually the lowest of the low), the worse you are at the game, the lower your score, the lower your reputation, the farther away from an achievement you are (I guess). You're tasked to assassinate your target (as in secretly), leave no evidence behind, leave the place looking undisturbed for the most part and get out. Perhaps you're thinking the game could do away with the theme of people killing other people & replace it with a different theme with similar gameplay but I think the theme is just something we're familiar with and it naturally incorporates that gameplay style, we can more accurately observe humans and understand their behaviour (and our own.) Now that I think about, it's hard to differentiate action & violence when you have to interact with other characters, how many non-violent actions can you perform to craft fun, interesting gameplay mechanics? (Not saying it's impossible, butit's a challenge.)

Having said that, if you actually wish to support non-violence & creativity in video games, that's fantastic! Please go ahead, pitch ideas to the community/industry or partake in its development. These days I really feel indie games are the more creative games and don't rely on purdy graphics and violence as much as AAA titles. I've actually been thinking about an RPG wherein the main character's fighting style involves protecting themself, disarming enemies and maybe rendering them temporarily immobile rather than directly attacking them (something like using a whip to pull weapons away, topple bodies over etc.) Whadya think.

Extra: Seems to me this fear of brainwashing violence mostly exists in white communities :/ I barely know any families who completely block such content from their families and there's hardly any effect. I've played games since I was a wee lad, I played most genres & with any rating and I liked action adventure games. In primary school I watched movies that depicted raw violence (gladiator) and some mature content and I watched anime that involved brutal dismembering of bodies (Elfen Lied). I freely browsed the web and discovered various things about what people in the world were like (I didn't like to be ignorant, but I didn't partake) but all in all, I'm about the most moral person I know (and I do know many). Although, at the same time I loved watching cartoons and comedy, playing puzzle games and yes, doing lots of outdoor activities (basicaly, cheerful and sunny hobbies too). I'm not exactly proud that my parents didn't monitor my internet use or gaming & didn't condition me but I chose what to incorporate into my character from the stories I experienced. I've never so much as punched someone in the face or uttered the F word. I never treated women in any derogatory fashion. I never enjoyed watching evil men do evil things. It's all in the mind, maybe you should see the early flavour in games kids have. GTA definitely wasn't my first or favourite game, I didn't hear "You can kill anyone in this game, including police" and suddenly get hyped. Maybe those are the kids you should be worried about. Maybe you oughta be worried when VR or AR becomes popular though =x

[LeGloriousUnderboob]

Also, why do people like you refuse to see violent games/media (with little to no substance I mean) as a way to vent off any violent tendencies one might be keeping within themselves and insist on seeing it as the cause?

[el Cheeto]

Цитата допису NemesisStabiliser:

Also, why do people like you refuse to see violent games/media (with little to no substance I mean) as a way to vent off any violent tendencies one might be keeping within themselves and insist on seeing it as the cause?

Exactly! and in the end if someone does do something violent and get charged. Most of the reasons people blame it on games or movies is because they simply can. And in the end if they can prove something brought them too there own actions then there sentence would get slightly reduced!!! as well as the company behind that product could get sued!!!! thats why Now we have the Rating system on games indicating what age group is right to follow...and if people are playing at an age group that is higher then them then they can't blame the company!

[LeGloriousUnderboob]

Цитата допису Morgan Freeman:

Цитата допису NemesisStabiliser:

Also, why do people like you refuse to see violent games/media (with little to no substance I mean) as a way to vent off any violent tendencies one might be keeping within themselves and insist on seeing it as the cause?

Exactly! and in the end if someone does do something violent and get charged. Most of the reasons people blame it on games or movies is because they simply can. And in the end if they can prove something brought them too there own actions then there sentence would get slightly reduced!!! as well as the company behind that product could get sued!!!! thats why Now we have the Rating system on games indicating what age group is right to follow...and if people are playing at an age group that is higher then them then they can't blame the company!

Morgan Freeman speaks! Honestly, I dislike the rating system. Western people tend to only make childish content for children, I liked childish AND mature content since I was a child (something intellectually stimulating). Funny thing is the rating system is kinda like parental controls, they're just an option or guideline for people to use but many don't. It allows people to judge what they're mentally capable of handling though and that's great. Like I said in my essay above, too many people game nowadays for the accusation to stand (due to mobile tech and other means of entertainment).

OP is mostly referring to youngsters here though so there's no sentencing involved :/ Games are actually used to educate children now: educational narrative with a focus on positive influence, intellectual & innovative puzzles, games that educate kids about problems they're facing (e.g. mechanisms of cancer etc.) See: ESA (I think it's Entertainment Software Association)

[el Cheeto]

Цитата допису NemesisStabiliser:

Morgan Freeman speaks! Honestly, I dislike the rating system. Western people tend to only make childish content for children, I liked childish AND mature content since I was a child (something intellectually stimulating). Funny thing is the rating system is kinda like parental controls, they're just an option or guideline for people to use but many don't. It allows people to judge what they're mentally capable of handling though and that's great. Like I said in my essay above, too many people game nowadays for the accusation to stand (due to mobile tech and other means of entertainment).

OP is mostly referring to youngsters here though so there's no sentencing involved :/ Games are actually used to educate children now: educational narrative with a focus on positive influence, intellectual & innovative puzzles, games that educate kids about problems they're facing (e.g. mechanisms of cancer etc.) See: ESA (I think it's Entertainment Software Association)

Psshhh i always speak....most people just don't decide to listen :3
Yeah, We have parents buying there kids T or M rated games when they aren't legally old enough and just let them play! Hell most of our gaming communities are underage! and its embarrasing, specially when they tell others off! When it comes to online and games there is no respect for the rules set in place to prevent ♥♥♥♥ from happening as well as there is no respect for those pointing out that the rules and ratings are there for a reason!

[LeGloriousUnderboob]

Yeah, online gameplay is hard to manage but developers these days don't even try to moderate, moderators are important in such an environment. If their service ends up providing more harm than good, they oughta discontinue it. The least they could do is censor curses and give people sufficient control on who can communicate/interact with them. But children need to be disciplined IRL before being disciplined online I guess :/

[el Cheeto]

Цитата допису NemesisStabiliser:

Yeah, online gameplay is hard to manage but developers these days don't even try to moderate, moderators are important in such an environment. If their service ends up providing more harm than good, they oughta discontinue it. The least they could do is censor curses and give people sufficient control on who can communicate/interact with them. But children need to be disciplined IRL before being disciplined online I guess :/

The problem with anything online is that.....Anyone can put in a fake birthday to give themselves access! Maybe if Online (anything involving a certain age) required our actual credentials to prove our legitimacy.....maybe....just maybe the age group would be controlled....but....thats just an idea for online! Especially since there is no way to prevent a kid from accessing anything.....and even if there is...theres still access to the settings that decide upon that (I wasn't a dumb kid when I used my parents computer....so i found out how to get into blocked parented content!). Just a brain fart that happened now

[Fang]

Oh for the love of... Games and movies are for E-N-T-E-R-T-A-I-N-M-E-N-T. Anything else is overanalyzing things. "BUT VIOLENCE!" It's a game. "BUT PEOPLE WILL GO CRAZY!" It's a game, not the game's fault. "BUT IT EXISTS!" It's still a game. "BUT-" IT'S NOT REAL!!!

Go check out "Hatred", troll those forums. At least there I can still see some point to it, here I'm playing as a BALD PERFECT CLONE that can slow down time with his mind and change clothes on the fly and be unrecognizable.