Worried about EU5

[kampfturke]

I just wanted to get this off my chest.

I dislike the ever worsening predatory DLC practise of companies.
I find the DLCs for EU4 were borderline and am worried that it will get even worse for EU5.

Dear Paradox. I am not a piggy bank that you can keep milking. I literally buy less of your games, as I do not want to spend 100s every year on DLC. Plus the quality of the DLCs is getting worse.

So please release EU5 in a good state and please stop locking everything behind DLCs.

I hope the community is behind me, as if we keep letting companies milk us, we will keep getting gutted releases and overpriced DLCs and addons.

[Malvastor]

Escrito originalmente por AdmiralPiett:

Escrito originalmente por Malvastor:

You literally quoted this post yourself.

Now reread through most of Chatbots later posts where Chatbot goes back on that entirely.

He has exactly one later post in this thread and it does not in any way contradict or go back on what he said in the post I quoted.

I really can't tell if you're not reading what people say at all, or if you read it and just make something up anyway.

[AdmiralPiett]

Escrito originalmente por Malvastor:

Escrito originalmente por AdmiralPiett:

Now reread through most of Chatbots later posts where Chatbot goes back on that entirely.

He has exactly one later post in this thread and it does not in any way contradict or go back on what he said in the post I quoted.

I really can't tell if you're not reading what people say at all, or if you read it and just make something up anyway.

It does if you actually read it. He heavily implies the Tinto team was seasoned PDX personnel and not cheapo new hires from local areas

[Malvastor]

Escrito originalmente por AdmiralPiett:

Escrito originalmente por Malvastor:

He has exactly one later post in this thread and it does not in any way contradict or go back on what he said in the post I quoted.

I really can't tell if you're not reading what people say at all, or if you read it and just make something up anyway.

It does if you actually read it. He heavily implies the Tinto team was seasoned PDX personnel and not cheapo new hires from local areas

No, he says that they're all Paradox employees (because they are) in response to your claim that they're subcontractors, and that some of them transferred from other Paradox projects (because they did). He said they were new when Leviathan came out (because they were) and then points out that the same group has been working on EU4 from that time until now.

Nowhere in that does he imply that they were all seasoned personnel when Leviathan came out.

[AdmiralPiett]

Escrito originalmente por Malvastor:

Escrito originalmente por AdmiralPiett:

It does if you actually read it. He heavily implies the Tinto team was seasoned PDX personnel and not cheapo new hires from local areas

No, he says that they're all Paradox employees (because they are) in response to your claim that they're subcontractors, and that some of them transferred from other Paradox projects (because they did). He said they were new when Leviathan came out (because they were) and then points out that the same group has been working on EU4 from that time until now.

Nowhere in that does he imply that they were all seasoned personnel when Leviathan came out.

So then he's derailing the conversation (as are you). When Leviathan was being developed, they were new hires, basically subcontractors. THAT is the phenomenon and policy we're talking about here and whether or not it will be used for EU5 development, NOT the current activities of Tinto 4 years later. Please stay on topic. The issue is whether or not PDX will revert to the anti consumer cost-cutting methods they did for Leviathan and HOI4's Trial of Allegiance, which bit them in the ass HARD.

To put it another way, nobody ever cared about what Marshal Grouchy did after Waterloo, no matter how well he did it. The point is that he was an untested asset given far too much responsibility and completely botched everything when it really mattered

[HB]

Escrito originalmente por AdmiralPiett:

Escrito originalmente por HB:

He answered, you just did not like the answer and insulted him, spamed your question in spite of having it fully answered. Your OT posting derailing of the thread, is a tactic you complain about others doing, but here you are not holding yourself to the same standards you try and impose on others.

Where did I insult him?

Where did he answer the question "what are we paying for if pre release QA isn't necessary?"?

I have no interest in explaining your issues, to you, they are plain for all to see, except you.

[AdmiralPiett]

Escrito originalmente por HB:

Escrito originalmente por AdmiralPiett:

Where did I insult him?

Where did he answer the question "what are we paying for if pre release QA isn't necessary?"?

I have no interest in explaining your issues, to you, they are plain for all to see, except you.

So you are unable to back up your accusations? We can therefore only say they were untrue

[Malvastor]

Escrito originalmente por AdmiralPiett:

Escrito originalmente por Malvastor:

No, he says that they're all Paradox employees (because they are) in response to your claim that they're subcontractors, and that some of them transferred from other Paradox projects (because they did). He said they were new when Leviathan came out (because they were) and then points out that the same group has been working on EU4 from that time until now.

Nowhere in that does he imply that they were all seasoned personnel when Leviathan came out.

So then he's derailing the conversation (as are you). When Leviathan was being developed, they were new hires, basically subcontractors. THAT is the phenomenon and policy we're talking about here and whether or not it will be used for EU5 development, NOT the current activities of Tinto 4 years later. Please stay on topic. The issue is whether or not PDX will revert to the anti consumer cost-cutting methods they did for Leviathan and HOI4's Trial of Allegiance, which bit them in the ass HARD.

To put it another way, nobody ever cared about what Marshal Grouchy did after Waterloo, no matter how well he did it. The point is that he was an untested asset given far too much responsibility and completely botched everything when it really mattered

... What?

You were the one who brought up Chatbot's further posts. If the only thing you care about is Leviathan's development, then this is the only relevant statement for you:

Escrito originalmente por Totally Innocent Chatbot:

The 1.31/Leviathan problem stemmed from many issues, but one of the biggest was that it was developed by a mostly-new dev team

And if you care about how they'll handle EU5 then your question is answered because Tinto is handling EU5.

Which is where Chatbot's other post comes in; if you could read you'd realize it's not "derailing the conversation", he's making the point that Tinto is no longer a mostly-new dev team, but has been working and gaining experience with EU for nearly 5 years now.

[Marquoz]

Engaging in good-faith argument with trolls is pointless, which is why I bailed on it a few pages back.

[HB]

Escrito originalmente por Marquoz:

Engaging in good-faith argument with trolls is pointless, which is why I bailed on it a few pages back.

A wise policy.

[Malvastor]

Escrito originalmente por Marquoz:

Engaging in good-faith argument with trolls is pointless, which is why I bailed on it a few pages back.

Smarter man than I am.

[OA7]

About the DLCs, You don't even need to think about it , YES, They will spam DLCs and it will take a whole decade or even more to complete the game, So the real question is:

How old will you be after 10 years from now ?

[AdmiralPiett]

Escrito originalmente por Malvastor:

Escrito originalmente por Marquoz:

Engaging in good-faith argument with trolls is pointless, which is why I bailed on it a few pages back.

Smarter man than I am.

Yes, that's correct, I am

The issue is still that PDX engages in quantity-over-quality, anti-consumer staffing policies

[Totally Innocent Chatbot]

Escrito originalmente por OA7:

About the DLCs, You don't even need to think about it , YES, They will spam DLCs and it will take a whole decade or even more to complete the game, So the real question is:

How old will you be after 10 years from now :SadGuest: ?

Worth pointing out that several of their dev diaries have mentioned features that are DLC-locked in EU4 because of how much later they were added, that will be fully a part of the base game for EU5. Will there be DLC's? Yes. Will the game probably feel a bit bare compared to EU4 with all DLC's on release? Probably. But all signs so far point to this game being far more fleshed-out at launch than say EU4 was for its first couple years.

[AdmiralPiett]

Escrito originalmente por Totally Innocent Chatbot:

Escrito originalmente por OA7:

About the DLCs, You don't even need to think about it , YES, They will spam DLCs and it will take a whole decade or even more to complete the game, So the real question is:

How old will you be after 10 years from now :SadGuest: ?

Worth pointing out that several of their dev diaries have mentioned features that are DLC-locked in EU4 because of how much later they were added, that will be fully a part of the base game for EU5. Will there be DLC's? Yes. Will the game probably feel a bit bare compared to EU4 with all DLC's on release? Probably. But all signs so far point to this game being far more fleshed-out at launch than say EU4 was for its first couple years.

My biggest fear is the game releasing with the content for the first 3 DLCs already fleshed out, which would mean they deliberately didn't include those features in the base game so they could sell them separately

Funding continued development with DLC model is one thing. Deliberately stripping the base game at release of its full potential so you can sell half of the original base game separately within the first 6 months is terrible

[Rusty Booper]

Escrito originalmente por kampfturke:

I just wanted to get this off my chest.

I dislike the ever worsening predatory DLC practise of companies.
I find the DLCs for EU4 were borderline and am worried that it will get even worse for EU5.

Dear Paradox. I am not a piggy bank that you can keep milking. I literally buy less of your games, as I do not want to spend 100s every year on DLC. Plus the quality of the DLCs is getting worse.

So please release EU5 in a good state and please stop locking everything behind DLCs.

I hope the community is behind me, as if we keep letting companies milk us, we will keep getting gutted releases and overpriced DLCs and addons.

Paradox came out not long ago to be fair, and apologised for being so greedy, and to do better, if they do they do, if not, they not,