How can you break up alliances?

[Paragon]

As the title asks really. I know you can use the great power interaction, but my current target won't budge, and for rather decent reason too. Spain is allied to Austria and myself, but I would like them to not be, so they can help me murder them instead.

One additional issue. Apparently Austria has SEVEN (7!) diplomatic reputation, which is an absurd +35 modifier to war calls. So I probably won't be able to catch the spainiards with their pants down.

[Paragon]

Originally posted by AN:

Attack a third party ally of the one you want on your side and force them to break their alliance in a seperate peace.

Forgot to mention, religious leagues went active and i'm on the other side of everyone Austria is allied to. Even Albania. So I can't do that.

[Khorps]

just give up your squabbles and make friends with everyone

[tinisiyo]

Call Spain in one war and start another vs Austria.

[Frozenkhan]

Austria gonna Austria.

[Arcium XIII]

As alluded to by tinisiyo, a country can't be on your side in a war and on the opposing side against you in another war so you can call Spain into a war against someone else and they won't join a war you declare against Austria. That being said, the moment the war ends, assuming the conditions are still met, they will get called in, so you either need to keep the first war going until the second one ends or get the war against Austria to the point where they can't call anyone in (war score >=25% is the easiest way to do this, but there's also a timer that kicks in). Sadly, if you can't declare wars against any minor powers to force Spain to dissolve the alliance, there aren't really any options available to you to actually get Spain to join the war on your side. You could just try keeping a close eye on Spain to see if they get bogged down in any messy overseas wars; if their debt and/or war exhaustion ever get high enough, given that you're friendly with them, they may get to the point where they wouldn't honour a defensive call to arms against Austria. You'd then be looking for an early peace with Austria, for as little war score as you can manage, to declare on them ~5 years later but calling Spain in this time (if debt is their problem, you can then send them money to pay it off).

[w.engler]

Actually I think of this as a flaw in the game. In a current game Portugal, Spain, and France have been allies .. for 200 years. And together the three carved up the new world and parts of the UK (while I was dancing on the Commonwealth, Mamaluks, and Russian graves as the Ottomans for fun). Nothing I can do will get this triumvirate to break up. None of them want to ally with me no matter how much I up my Dip rep. They even stopped allying anyone else outside that group of three. Sorry but this game needs some CK3 like actions (costly yes but it would really make the game far better than 200 year alliances which is BS).

[Marquoz]

Why did you necro a thread from 5 years ago to make this comment? And it's easy to break up alliances if you have any skill at all. Attack a nation that is the ally of one of the triumvirate. That will call one trimvirate member into the war. Then force them to break their alliance in the peace deal.

Easy. Straightforward. No changes necessary.

[Malvastor]

Originally posted by Marquoz:

Why did you necro a thread from 5 years ago to make this comment? And it's easy to break up alliances if you have any skill at all. Attack a nation that is the ally of one of the triumvirate. That will call one trimvirate member into the war. Then force them to break their alliance in the peace deal.

Easy. Straightforward. No changes necessary.

He did say they'd stopped allying anyone else.

Still shouldn't be an issue if he's 'dancing on the graves' of the Commonwealth, Mamluks, and Russia. Should be plenty large enough to grab a couple other allies and assault the alliance block. Or just ignore them and expand East until he's large enough to do so.

[ChaffyExpert]

Originally posted by Malvastor:

Originally posted by Marquoz:

Why did you necro a thread from 5 years ago to make this comment? And it's easy to break up alliances if you have any skill at all. Attack a nation that is the ally of one of the triumvirate. That will call one trimvirate member into the war. Then force them to break their alliance in the peace deal.

Easy. Straightforward. No changes necessary.

He did say they'd stopped allying anyone else.

Still shouldn't be an issue if he's 'dancing on the graves' of the Commonwealth, Mamluks, and Russia. Should be plenty large enough to grab a couple other allies and assault the alliance block. Or just ignore them and expand East until he's large enough to do so.

Yeah, and you can always promise land then break said promise (assuming it's a throwaway alliance) to get them into the actual war, because of the whole favors thing.

[ChaffyExpert]

Originally posted by w.engler:

Actually I think of this as a flaw in the game. In a current game Portugal, Spain, and France have been allies .. for 200 years. And together the three carved up the new world and parts of the UK (while I was dancing on the Commonwealth, Mamaluks, and Russian graves as the Ottomans for fun). Nothing I can do will get this triumvirate to break up. None of them want to ally with me no matter how much I up my Dip rep. They even stopped allying anyone else outside that group of three. Sorry but this game needs some CK3 like actions (costly yes but it would really make the game far better than 200 year alliances which is BS).

You can wait for one or all 3 of them to get into a war, then declare war on one of them when the others won't answer the call to war. Then in the peace deal annul treaties.

Honestly, sometimes you just have to wait for a good opportunity instead of brute forcing it.

[Marquoz]

Originally posted by Malvastor:

Originally posted by Marquoz:

Why did you necro a thread from 5 years ago to make this comment? And it's easy to break up alliances if you have any skill at all. Attack a nation that is the ally of one of the triumvirate. That will call one trimvirate member into the war. Then force them to break their alliance in the peace deal.

Easy. Straightforward. No changes necessary.

He did say they'd stopped allying anyone else.

I don't believe him. The AI is coded to use its diplo-relations slots. For three great powers to ally no one but each other (consuming just two slots each) would be literally unprecedented. I've never seen it in 5000 hours of play, and no one has ever posted screenshots or videos of such a thing either.

While you're right that it shouldn't be an obstacle for him even if it's true, I don't think it is.

[ChaffyExpert]

Originally posted by Marquoz:

Originally posted by Malvastor:

He did say they'd stopped allying anyone else.

I don't believe him. The AI is coded to use its diplo-relations slots. For three great powers to ally no one but each other (consuming just two slots each) would be literally unprecedented. I've never seen it in 5000 hours of play, and no one has ever posted screenshots or videos of such a thing either.

While you're right that it shouldn't be an obstacle for him even if it's true, I don't think it is.

Maybe they are allied to other nations but he can't dec on them, thus making them irrelevent to this situation.

Or the other slots are taken up by vassals, or gurantee-ing? AI loves to be a prick by doing that.

[Marquoz]

Originally posted by Palpatinate:

Originally posted by Marquoz:

I don't believe him. The AI is coded to use its diplo-relations slots. For three great powers to ally no one but each other (consuming just two slots each) would be literally unprecedented. I've never seen it in 5000 hours of play, and no one has ever posted screenshots or videos of such a thing either.

While you're right that it shouldn't be an obstacle for him even if it's true, I don't think it is.

Maybe they are allied to other nations but he can't dec on them, thus making them irrelevent to this situation.

He says the triple alliance has lasted for more than 200 years. There's no way he couldn't declare on one their allies in that time frame.

Or the other slots are taken up by vassals, or gurantee-ing? AI loves to be a prick by doing that.

All of them? For three nations, not just one? Again, I don't believe it. This kind of assertion requires proof.

[bri]

A guarantee just gives you the alternate target you need to break them up. And in the absolute worst case scenario you always have the no CB option (although 200+ years of them being allied means you should be really close to imperialism if you don't already have it).

[ChaffyExpert]

Originally posted by Marquoz:

Originally posted by Palpatinate:

Maybe they are allied to other nations but he can't dec on them, thus making them irrelevent to this situation.

He says the triple alliance has lasted for more than 200 years. There's no way he couldn't declare on one their allies in that time frame.

]quote]Or the other slots are taken up by vassals, or gurantee-ing? AI loves to be a prick by doing that.

All of them? For three nations, not just one? Again, I don't believe it. This kind of assertion requires proof. [/quote]

Hey i'm just providing possible explanations here. Maybe they only have like 3 diplo relations, or nobody else will ally them. I don't know, AI does weird ♥♥♥♥ sometimes.