Blood Bowl 2

Blood Bowl 2

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RDR Sep 26, 2015 @ 10:58am
Solo League AI Difficulty Setting Question
Any chance the DEV's, or anyone that knows could answer this question.

If you play a friendly game against the AI you have the option of selecting the AI difficulty (ie Easy, Medium or Hard).

However when you create a solo league you have no such option (or at least none I could find).

I am hoping this means that the AI difficulty is set to HARD for all teams in the league, but am unsure. Its just as likely the game assigns one of those three difficulties to each team, which would be the worst of both worlds regardless of the skill of the player.

QUESTION : What difficulty is the AI set to in a solo league, and is it the same (ie Easy,Medium, Hard) for each team in the league or is it variable.

Also is there any way to decrease the time for matches in a solo league ?

Please can we not derail this thread into a pan the AI thread.

Thanks everyone.
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Showing 31-45 of 52 comments
Timur Sep 30, 2015 @ 12:18pm 
Originally posted by Dichotomy:
As for the biased rolls I do not beleive so.

It is absolutely so. Either that or the rng is wrecked. Seriously there is no other way. I tried two games against an High Elf Team with my chaos team and the Elfs didn't miss a dodge ONCE in two games (2+), while my Minotaur was out of action half the game (also 2+ for Wild Animal) and when he was in action, I rolled three Attacker down on a 3 dice block with him. The AI on the other hand had not a single Turnover from anything.

And those were only two games of now well over 20 by now that all worked out like that. I even saw Human teams just runing past my team all the time, because even the 3+ dodge roll almost always worked for them. It is not that I lose, I mostly win, but without the dice biase the AI wouldn't have even less of a chance and if it really is set on hard for the solo leagues it would make sense. It is a very bad way to make the game more difficult, though, because now the AI has no risk anymore doing even the most unlikely blocks.

Originally posted by jaynz:
As for the AI giving itself better rolls.. yeah, I've confirmed that. It's still random, but it effectively gets a +1 on about half the rolls, most notably in things like 'picking up the ball', 'dodge', and - more worryingly - armor rolls. Now, some mount of cheating is to be expected in a strategy game to make up for poor AI... but in a game alrady this random? Yeah, can't recommend this one.

They make it very cheeky, though. If a piece has the dodge skill, it can actually fail the first roll but the second will always be secure.
Last edited by Timur; Sep 30, 2015 @ 12:22pm
Zourin Sep 30, 2015 @ 12:26pm 
I'd say the League AI is good about almost never rolling 1's.

Friendly Match ai is completely different.
jaynz Sep 30, 2015 @ 12:27pm 
And there you sum it up. I played 7 games with the AI, won all seven.. enjoyed two. The others were just annoying to see the computer pull off rediculous rolls time after time after time, while I would regularly fail the 83 percent rolls. I still WIN, but I know I'm not really playing Blood Bowl... I'm playing 'outsmart the cheater at Poker', and I'm just done with that.

As I said elsewhere, I got this game for the PS4. It's going back in today. I could probably still recommend it for die-hard fans who play a lot against other human players... but I can't for solo players or casual players. It's just too masochistic.
Zourin Sep 30, 2015 @ 12:28pm 
I spent about 6-8 games in Solo League hammering my head against Brets, Orcs, and Skaven (as LIzardman), fired up a Friendly Match for practice, and the difference was like night and day.



Compared to the friendly AI, League AI is essentially infallible except in fringe cases. It can be outplayed, but it's almost guaranteed to end a half with rerolls to spare if it started with 3.
Last edited by Zourin; Sep 30, 2015 @ 12:30pm
jaynz Sep 30, 2015 @ 12:30pm 
But sadly, since 90 percent of the game is league play, and requires that so-called 'hard AI' (IE, the cheating somubitch mode)...
CaoCaoTipper Sep 30, 2015 @ 12:50pm 
Originally posted by jaynz:
As I said elsewhere, I got this game for the PS4. It's going back in today. I could probably still recommend it for die-hard fans who play a lot against other human players... but I can't for solo players or casual players. It's just too masochistic.

THIS ^

I can't agree more. If I hadn't spent 10 hours on it already I would return it on steam :/ A shame too, it's one change away from being a game I could adore.
shplody Oct 5, 2015 @ 5:47pm 
♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ about the AI cheating is just venting steam because you got ♥♥♥♥♥♥ over with poor IQ, blame yourself, your imaginary god and your parents instead, it'll be just as productive.

Or second, learn how to play.

You will roll double skulls a lot. 16 turns, several 2 dice blocks per turn, thats a lot of dice. You're almost guaranteed to roll a double skulls at least once.

The dice's job is to ♥♥♥♥ you up. Now your job is to be ready when that happens.

Go watch some tutorials, stop crying.

I suggest cknoor. watch the blood bowl 1 tutorial series, if it taught me a few things, itll probably teach you how to play.

Whether the AI cheats or not, I'm 15-0 against it, it is lame. I'm sure the veteran community feels the same way.

Also, if it took you ten hours of gameplay to realize you weren't into a game, you must be, as he said, a masochist - keep playing, you obviously subconsciously enjoy being terrible at the games you play or you'd have done your homework before hand and learned the basics.
jaynz Oct 5, 2015 @ 6:57pm 
Was the anti-religion comment REALLY neccessary? Or did you just throw that in there because you weren't quite being a smug jackass ENOUGH with that post and needed just that little bit more to really push it over the edge?

It's true that most, nearly all, strategy-based games have AI that cheats. I've written enough to know that... the trick is to keep it subtle so the challenge is there but it's something to overcome, not something so blatant that you feel ripped off. And, for MANY people, the AI in leage mode is just both poor and cheating like a sumofabitch. So it's not too hard to beat the cheats, but it's not rewarding, either.

And, yes, it may take some hours to figure out just WHY this game, which we clearly really want to love, just pisses us off. Blood Bowl doesn't play that quick, and 10 hours may not be more than six or seven games.

Like I said, I won EVERY game that I played, but it was an unrewarding experience a lot of the time. This isn't about my penis-size, as you seem to want to make it out to be, but our opinion on if other people, in general, would enjoy the game or not. And, given how the game is selling, and how its being rated, seems like most people agree with us.

So kindly take your trolling "I'm better than thou" post, and shove it up your endzone.
rinku Oct 5, 2015 @ 6:57pm 
The campaign (especially early on) may well have a few rigged rolls where required for the story, but I've not been seeing any bias in Solo League or Friendly.
jaynz Oct 5, 2015 @ 7:01pm 
It's most blatant with AGI-based teams, particularly Scaven. (Where the exaggeration of additional +1 seems to be the most obvious.) Typically the game will favor dodge where needed and block where needed. It doesn't seem usually to get /critical successes/ out of the ether, just a lot of little ones that really start to add up.
Smegmata Oct 5, 2015 @ 7:16pm 
Originally posted by Ofan:
Originally posted by Timur:

You must play the "easy diffuculty" AI then. ;)


Who plays friendly lol If I solo I play league/tourneys :p.

Sure there are a few rough games where you get 3 injuries on turn 1 but then there are games like the one my Human team rolled against a pretty high level chaos team where I ruined them.

I gave them 8 injuries by the end of the 1st half and they only took out (killed unfortunately) one of my linemen by the end of the match. Sadly I could just not get any of those those last 3 players down

Highly satisfying!

Folk just get mad when the plays don't go the way they want and as a result of course "the game is rigged" then rather than just accepting it's all part of Nuffles grand plan

Anyone who complains that the AI is benefiting from biased dice has a burden of proof they must bear if they expect to be believed. A background in even basic (high school level) statistics and probabilities should be suffient to prove the dice are loaded in the AI's favor, if indeed they are. The process should be remarkably easy. I encourage dice-conspiracy theorists to do so.

In the past, people have had the same compliant about the old blood bowl game (muh dice are loaded!) and a few dutiful spreadsheet junkies showed no credible evidence of AI cheating. So this old complaint isn't new, and I expect it's probably every bit as imagined as the last iteration.

Last edited by Smegmata; Oct 5, 2015 @ 7:17pm
Ninjafroggie Oct 5, 2015 @ 7:29pm 
Anyone who thinks the solo league AI is hard has no idea what hard games are. The AI is laughably easy to beat.
jaynz Oct 6, 2015 @ 8:49am 
I have to wonder if you guys read these posts or are just interested in saying how much other palyers suck so you can feel better about yourselves in life?
RodHull Oct 6, 2015 @ 9:04am 
Originally posted by Zourin:
I spent about 6-8 games in Solo League hammering my head against Brets, Orcs, and Skaven (as LIzardman), fired up a Friendly Match for practice, and the difference was like night and day.

Compared to the friendly AI, League AI is essentially infallible except in fringe cases. It can be outplayed, but it's almost guaranteed to end a half with rerolls to spare if it started with 3.

Simply not true I hate to say it but anyone struggling vs the AI is simply not playing well.

I have a wood elf team in a solo league and won my last match vs a skaven team with 8 rerolls (yes the AI had 8 rerolls per half to my 4) by 5-0

The previous game vs Orcs (who all had ridiculous level up stats of + st and ag) I won 3-0

The previous game vs a TV1750 value chaos team I won 4-1

In fact of seven I am yet to lose, indeed this teams career so far (well over 20 games all in league mode) it has drawn just 1 match vs high elves in its early days when I had no leveled players, am yet to lose vs any AI team.

In fact Ill go one better of my 3 main teams I play vs AI in league mode (wood elves at TV1980 chaos at TV 1850 and lizardmen at TV 1280) Ive lost just 1 game and drawn 3 from well over 80 games.

So either Im a tactical genius (im not) or you are doing something wrong. The AI often gets awful luck just like I do.

The AI in league mode (not played friendlies) is nowhere near infallible in fact it makes some terrible decisions sometimes and often does things which actively prevent it from winning. Its very conservative, the way to beat it is to constantly present it with situations where it must take massive risks to score and it will spend its turns aimlessly bunching up and blitzing people of no consequence...
Last edited by RodHull; Oct 6, 2015 @ 9:05am
RDR Oct 6, 2015 @ 10:28am 
Originally posted by Zourin:
Random events are just that, and can hurt you more than the AI. I had to concede a game (vs ai) because of a turn 1 riot stunning five of my team and none of the dwarves. That I can chock up to bad luck.

That league AI ran roughshod over the lizard lines in blocks in the next game, but that's mostly because the sack-draggers were chain-assisting/chain-blocking the lizards over and over, since I kept the ball out of their reach. 10 dwarves on 7 Lizards is not pretty, and it's a miracle nobody died..oh wait, one did. Thank Nuffle for apothecaries.

It's easy to say every face of a die is 17%. When you're talking about PHYSICAL dice. This isn't physical dice, but a D100 translator (because that's how programming rolls, literally). Whos to prove that different levels of AI don't have different odds of getting each face?

It's done in XCOM Classic difficulty, where the AI has a +10% success chance. They're just up front about it. It's not about whether or not it's appropriate for league AI's to have a statistical advantage, it's a matter of how heavy-handed and being honest about it.

It could be that league AI's have a 10% chance of a 1, and 18% chance of other numbers. It would be hard to prove, but the effects would be VERY visible. Kinda like what we're seeing here on the forums. People are seeing it.
Mate sorry but this is rubbish (re RNG's)

XCOM bias the RNG on Normal difficulty (or more specifically bias the reporting of what the RNG's actually generates). It actually reports the percentages wrong, to agree with peoples biased view of what percenatges should be.

People have a major issue going from normal to classic primarily due to the "player cheats" being removed. Like the above, or the fact that your chance to hit goes up and your chance to be hit goes down for every person you have below 4 in a mission. It is even more aggregious on easy difficulty.

Classic DOES NOT GET A 10% bonus to die rolls. Different AI species get different bonus to their accuracy (and on clasic the bonus are more prevalent in CRITICAL CHANCE and DAMAGE then in accuracy), but that is just like saying your seargent gets biased rolls over your rookies. Check the code, the txt file for the AI species enumerates them all.

This has been confirmed by the DEVS, please google or check the ufopedia for more info if you find it hard to beleive. SM (Firaxis) and RP (Blizzard) gave a talk on the RNG bias thing here http://www.shacknews.com/article/62807/sid-meier-and-rob-pardo

Where JS and SM completely screwed the pooch IMO was to accomodate players feelinsg and change the results (ie make a 80% chance be reported as a 65% chance). This made the expected success rate in line with a players emotions, but out of whack with reality. When this was removed players cried foul, and for once I would agree with them. It was a stupid mechanic that just created many more problems than it solved.

Education is far better then obfuscation in the long run. IMO it shows a distinct lack of respect for the player base, implementing a methedology that assumes the players are too stupid or histrionic to understand.

As for how games like this generate the results. Saying they all use a d100 is patently false. I have written a long article on these forums (as have others) about RNG's, their types, code etc.

RNG's are very basic bits of software. BB1 used Merseinne Twister algorithim, and BB2 likely uses the same one (perhaps 64 bit this time if BB1 was not).

I am sorry if my post comes off as a aggressive. That is not my intent. I am just tired of people misrepresenting how RNG's work and how games implement them. The code for MT or a LCG are only a handfull of lines long. The elegance or dificulty in the code is not in its implementation, but in its design.

You seem to be a much more reasoned person then most of these discussions tend to have. I hope you will look into what I have said. If you are intrested in how these types of things are coded just google MT or LCG. The code for them will be in the first handfull of results. If you have specific questions post back and I will do what I can to help.

Have Fun

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Date Posted: Sep 26, 2015 @ 10:58am
Posts: 52