Rat Ogre or not?

[Snorri Nosebiter]

I'm having a terribly indecisive day.

So, my Skaven team's sitting at 1130 TV. Three GRs have one skill apiece (including a mutation), and I have Guard on a Stormvermin.

If I drop a lineman and add a Rat Ogre, I'll be bumped up to 1230. I'm one hell of a procrastinator, so I can't decide if it'll be worth the hike in TV- I mean, I could get another 5 skills for the same price for a more well-rounded team and no unreliable Big Guy.

[Haree]

You can live without it. It comes with it's own advantages but also obvious disadvantages, I tend to get it early, not on the starting roster though because I like 4 GRs. If it skills up well and the rest of my team is getting the right skills then I keep him. I may sack him in the future though if he is just bloat and certainly if he gets an injury because I can use the wizard to better effect than the ogre.
If I am up against a lot of strength teams with mighty blow and tackle I will keep one just so it's a little bit of help stopping the important guys getting hit but don't be surprised if he goes out in the first few turns.

If the league you are playing in is based on TV though (does the game match you against same TV?) then don't use him, he will just stack the game against you.

[Twist3dM1nd]

Of course Rat Ogre

[Jeheil]

If you want fun...and if he roll's good a pain bringer...they are ace

Block and some armour pen (claw or whatever it is on them) and muhahahahaha

If he hasnt rolled well by his 4th roll, dump and rebuy...too much TV for no gain.

Guard, Block, Claw, Break Tackle, Pro make them scary AS

[Kayeka]

Most really, really good players would say "no", because of the reasons you've given. But considering the odds of you actually playing againt said really, really good players, I'd say it's up to you. Rat Ogres are great fun, and pretty much the only reliable "out of the box" option you have for removing opposing team members, either by blocking or surfing. It will leave you less vulnerable to bashy team, and can cause major headaches to speedy teams.

Heck, you don't even have to make blocks with them. If you position them right, their very presence can cause trouble for your opponent, thanks to Prehensile Tail and STR 5.

Just don't put them on the Line of Scrimmage when defending. Seriously, don't do that with any big guy. It's bad juju.

[Snorri Nosebiter]

Thanks for the advice, guys. I've decided against it due to being in a TV-matched perpetual league. Maybe when we start ladder tournaments I'll get one. :)

[HobbyCathartic]

I always have one in my opening roster. He bashes and bruises, even though he's a dumb animal. Also, if you get one don't waste rerolls on him. It seems obvious, but I've wasted several in the heat of the moment.

[blindside]

He just seems too useful in the early league period not to have him reason being he's your only player over 3 strength.

[Kayeka]

Originally posted by blindside:

He just seems too useful in the early league period not to have him reason being he's your only player over 3 strength.

Is he more useful than having four Gutter Runners? I'd say not.

[Obiwan]

the RO is one of the few big guys whose disadvantage trait really isn't that bad provided you keep him active. Not to mention his MA is i believe the best?

I think to rule him out is unwise.

[Harukage]

Rat Ogre is one the best big guys you can get. And is a major boost for your team who generaly lacks in bashiness. Ruling him out is... unwise. Use him to support your rats and for some tactical nuking and you will see an increase in your quality of life.

[BobbleShot]

My personal opinion is that the Rat Ogre is indispensible. I can't even comprehend choosing to not have one. Personally, I feel he's one of the best big guys in the game. Here is why...

Firstly, people tend to talk about unreliability when deciding against Rat Ogres, but really it's a fallacy, it's just confirmation bias. They remember that game when they got 6 Wild Animals in a row and they feel it cost them the game, but forget all the games where he worked every turn and was devastating. He works 5 times out of 6 if you use him correctly, which is a pretty low failure rate for a piece that powerful.

Also remember, it's not the Big Guy's fault when you block with him as your first action, and get a turnover. Always use him as late as you can in the turn in case things go pear-shaped.

So, here is why you want a Rogre:
- Fast for a big guy. Has 6MA, which is insane.
- Keeps tackle zones, even with Wild Animal.
- One of only 3 pieces in your entire team that has guard access, and is also the hardest one to put down.
- One of only 3 pieces in your entire team that can have Mighty Blow.
- Has frenzy for surfing, and is difficult to push out himself.
- Has a prehensile tail. So when you put him next to the ball carrier, he imposes a -1 to any dodge away from him, and he is a serious pain in the rear to remove once he's there.
- Most importantly, he HAS A LITTLE RAT WITH A FLAG ON HIS BACK!

Play to his strengths.
My Rat Ogre has Juggernaut and Break Tackle which keeps him mobile and in the action for offence and defence (he has 6MA after all), and largely negates his lack of Block. I use him as a roadblock when on offence, and a ball-carrier-marker in defence.

[BobbleShot]

Is he more useful than having four Gutter Runners? I'd say not.

At the start? My god, yes.
Do you really need 4 Gutter Runners to score a TD? I managed fine with just 2 at the start with my Skaven team. Remember that each Gutter Runner you take weakens your defence almost as much as it strengthens your offence, especially if you don't have a Rat Ogre either.

I mean, with 4 str 2 pieces and no Rogre, once the opposition has formed a cage, they can practically just walk past you to score.

[Harukage]

Mmmm... Actualy i never even put more than 2 runners on a pitch. 4 is an "overkill", where either your team get murdered with you 4 ST2 rats. or you has too much maneuverability and speed you never actualy use to full extent. Most of the time puting 2 extra linerats instead to screen enemy off is better. Does not mean that you should not have 2 more runners as a spare though.

[Snorri Nosebiter]

Well, my GRs all have Wrestle so survivability is a little higher, and when my opponent cages I usually want him to score as fast as possible.
It's not hard for rats to make a comeback- especially if you get to kick first.

I'd definitely take one in an organised league- I'm just worried about the extra 100k TV in the perpetual MM league this team is in. That could be five more Tackles or MBs I come up against.

[BobbleShot]

The choice is yours really, but I don't find that the MM seems to care about TV too much. Not having that Rat Ogre doesn't mean you won't face that team with 5 more tackles or MBs, it just means you'll face it with 150k more inducements. ;)
On one stream, I saw a guy get matched up with someone 600TV below him.

With Skaven, I tend to say screw TV and just bring the best 16 rats you can, that way after they've knocked out or injured 5, you can still field a full team. ^^

Considering rats can still score with only 6 or so, they basically have to get rid of over 10 rats to stop you scoring.