Deathroller + Free Bribe Stadium Upgrade So Broken

[Jasta]

Just played a Dwarf team with a Deathroller (12th bashy team game in a row incidently) They also had the stadium upgrade that gives both teams a free bribe which means the roller was on for two thirds of the match because he kicked off and couldn't even score in 8 turns. Ended up killing my rat ogre though. So unbalanced. None of the other upgrades benefit a team even 10% as much as that one benefits Dwarves.

I noticed out of all the stadium upgrades that only one actually helps agility teams (albeit just barely) Elf grass. The rest are either neutral or mostly there to cause more casualties.

Sick and tired of playing boring smashmouth teams that make half the skills and half the teams in the game pointless. Crap like this is just the last straw.

Give people some incentive to play non bashy teams - any kind of incentive at all in the next patch or this game is dead. Vermintide is out and it's Warhammer and actually fun.

[RodHull]

First up let me just say yes that stadium upgrade is broken... massively unbalanced.

The deathroller while risky is the single best Big Guy piece in the game, it has no negatrait EXCEPT that normally you only get to use it for one drive and maybe another if the bribe works. Thats how its balanced. This upgrade completely breaks that balance by allowing a free bribe.

And god when they add gobbos its going to be equally a must buy upgrade for them (bombardier ftw)

With that out of the way sorry OP but rest of the complaints come across as salty whining. The trade off in BB between skill and bash teams is a clear one. Playing skill teams your generally gonna win, sometimes easily cause the ridiculous BS you can pull off compared to bash teams, the downside of that is you are also gonna die a lot and especially if you play like I see some AGI players play (basing orcs/chaos for no reason etc)

When you play bash teams your way to win is to reduce the other team to so few players they cant stop you scoring. Both play styles have their good and bad points. And as an aside if your playing AGI based teams at really high TV of course your gonna meet loaded kill teams, manage your TV and you wont.

As with many similar posts the issue here is with the open ladder format, as winning and losing is essentially pointless so it doesnt matter to a dwarf DR team if he draws 50 games in a row and causes 100 injuries hes advancing...

[Jasta]

Цитата допису Dave Hedgehog:

Matchmaking in perpetual leagues sucks. It always has. This is the major problem- I know you've probably heard this a thousand times before, but have you tried joining different leagues, OP?

I've tried three different leagues... all end up the same. I don't have time to play in organised ladders.

The solution seems obvious. Give people a limited number of chances to refuse a match instead of being sucked into the first one every time. Maybe three chances per day to refuse a match up.

Ridiculously roided up bash teams will suddenly find they get to play 1/3rd as many matches as they have to wait longer each time. They'll wise up and roll a team that has more purpose than just specifically making someone elses life miserable.

If it ends up that people get sick of constantly running into AGI teams as a result? The pendulum will swing the other way.

Currently the pendulum is locked rock solid in favour of bash and it is just getting so old.

[Deadworth]

Ultimately I still agree with the OP. The free bribe benefits dwarves with deathrollers to a *much* greater extent. Considering that a free bribe costs 100k in inducements further compounds the situation when a higher TV deathroller team gets the free bribe without having to spend 1-2 games worth of income on it.

Are there ways to still win that game? Sure. But the OP is right, imo. Both teams get a free bribe, but in this case it doesn't benefit both teams in a remotely balanced way. It does, however, bring a poerful new meaning to "home field advantage."

The fix? I know coaches are sick of this tune but... playing in a private league where the Admin prohibits free bribes / all stadium upgrades would solve it. I don't even recall if stadium upgrades are part of table top blood bowl.

[dynamoDes]

Цитата допису DFunck:

I don't even recall if stadium upgrades are part of table top blood bowl.

They aren't, they're an unplaytested, non-optional addition to this version. I've no problem with the game evolving, but heck - give people a way to opt out of it (blitz mode in BB1, for all it's weirdness did have the pro of you being able to avoid it if you wanted to). While I don't have any data to back it up, those stadium upgrades do not come across as particularly well balanced (and for the counter argument that the teams aren't balanced - I say they are, just not 'equally' balanced :) ).

[Moffin Bovin]

most of the upgrades are not that great since they benefit both teams. The Free bribe atm is definatly one that favors dwarfs more than anyone atm (goblins too if they ever become DLC, but they are not a "real" team so its not so important.)

If you are dwarfs and you have a death roller then the free bribe upgrade is pretty much a given.

[Blinckx]

Цитата допису RodHull:

The deathroller while risky is the single best Big Guy piece in the game, it has no negatrait EXCEPT that normally you only get to use it for one drive and maybe another if the bribe works. Thats how its balanced

He still have Loner trait, can't pick up the pall. is easy to lock him in a tackle zone and, even if you habe one free bribe, if you face an AGI quick team he won't stay much on the field
To be honest is not a great big guy at all, pretty suck honestly

[export]

Цитата допису Blinckx:

Цитата допису RodHull:

The deathroller while risky is the single best Big Guy piece in the game, it has no negatrait EXCEPT that normally you only get to use it for one drive and maybe another if the bribe works. Thats how its balanced

He still have Loner trait, can't pick up the pall. is easy to lock him in a tackle zone and, even if you habe one free bribe, if you face an AGI quick team he won't stay much on the field
To be honest is not a great big guy at all, pretty suck honestly

Don't forget that he alone gives the opponent a free wizard.

[WardenUSA]

I like that there is a home field advantage....I do wish they could come up with some more though. Like a +1 to all KO's or something.

[Jackal]

adding the beer stand that gets +1 to injury whit DE against a coach that did not see a witch elf blitzing you into a crowd can be lovely

[rinku]

One small point. If they're using their free bribe to keep the Deathroller on, they're not using it to back up a Foul. Feel free to use *your* free bribe to do so. Fouling Dwarves is a traditional Blood Bowl activity after all...

Low TV teams might want to take the Stadium Enhancement that lowers the cost of Star Players (you can replace that later if needs be). Likewise for the one that douubles Fan Factor gain or loss - if you have low FF, that advantages you nicely.

As to the inducement cost of the bribe... well the free Wizard one is more, and you get an inducement of the same value.

[Odoyle]

concrete also helps elves actually. when you have sure feet you can GFI all day with more moves per turn than most people. THEY have to GFI to catch you when they would not have sure feet. imo elf turf helps low movment teams more than concrete.

[Jasta]

Цитата допису rinku:

One small point. If they're using their free bribe to keep the Deathroller on, they're not using it to back up a Foul. Feel free to use *your* free bribe to do so. Fouling Dwarves is a traditional Blood Bowl activity after all...

Except of course so was he. He fouled a bunch with a free bribe in his pocket and the choice of being able to use it on a player or save it for the Deathroller.

Strangely enough with a team almost entirely consisting of AV9... he came out ahead on the injuries list.

I got one miss next game, one death, and one -1 MA

He got one miss next game on a runner, one of the few players I could actually hurt.

[2LambBuna]

the odd time i played dwarfs, and saw friends play dwarfs (in tabletop) i thought the death roller wasn't worth it. Its hogging TV for a peice that can get sent off without fouling. golden rule of fouling is only foul players more valuable than your player doing the foul. its why teams like skaven, chaos dwarfs and goblins suit fouling so much and teams with all high value players like the various elves and dwarfs dont (unleess its a really high value target like a leveled witch elf, wardancer, night runner, kroxigor, minotaur or most blitzers)

I would rather field just 12 dwarfs, keep the rerolls around 2 or 3 (2 for more skilled up team) and play at lower TV. at high tv dwarfs arent that great. they're a front loaded over career team like amazons & norse, rather than a back loaded team like lizards & chaos.

krox is best big guy. hes fairly reliable for a big guy, he ties people up well and he's fast.

[2LambBuna]

Цитата допису Jackal:

adding the beer stand that gets +1 to injury whit DE against a coach that did not see a witch elf blitzing you into a crowd can be lovely

this also works for dwarfs with the troll slayers. Its good to mimic WEs on your TSs and give them jump up. nasty suprise from that "harmless" downed player in the middle of the pitch who pops up and surfs your player near the side line into the crowd.

[2LambBuna]

Цитата допису MofineBovine:

most of the upgrades are not that great since they benefit both teams. The Free bribe atm is definatly one that favors dwarfs more than anyone atm (goblins too if they ever become DLC, but they are not a "real" team so its not so important.)

If you are dwarfs and you have a death roller then the free bribe upgrade is pretty much a given.

any bash team benefits form a free foul.

teams with cheap players you dont mind loosing like goblins, skaven & bretonnia benefit from fouling like hell when ever they can

this free bribe thing might make goblins more competative in BB2 than table top. which will be a good thing. everyone loves cowardly and weedy but crazy mushroomed of their tits goblins cheating, sneaking and being generally psychopathic on their way to victory, or mess everything up on the ref or couple of bad rolls then get beat to a pulp. they just fit the warhammer lore so much as a team.