In the end, this game is too difficult to enjoy.

[CalUKGR]

Well, I've struggled. I've persevered. I've lived in the benefit of the doubt and I've refused to give up. Until now. Enough is enough.

BB2 initially - to the unitiated like me - seemed like it might be a promising new prospect, until I discovered that even when I'm playing a friendly match with a team vastly overpowered against an AI opponent, somehow the AI team consistently conspires to throw all the best moves, never trips on a run (or if it does it absolutely always recovers), never fumbles the ball (or if it does, it always recovers) and never fails to land a devastating punch.

The AI is at the very least very poorly balanced, given that I was playing a 1600 team against a 1000 team - and I know this because I've played 21hrs of this stuff against the AI with precisely those odds and I've never once come even close to winning a match, managing only to score a touchdown once - ONCE - in 21hrs of play.

So, tell me again - how is this meant to be fun?

I remember when developers understood how to code discernable gradients between 'Easy' 'Medium' and 'Hard' difficulty settings - those differences actually meant something. The player had to be able to detect the shift. BB2 throws that out of the window - and gleefully boots you in the guts while it does it. Easy? Nope. At least no definition of 'Easy' I've ever encountered before in a video game. Perhaps a more honest way to grade the AI would have been 'Hard', 'Harder' and '**** You'.

Okay - you can open fire now. At least I got to speak my mind first.

[Blind Reverend]

which race did you play?

[Jeheil]

Game is best against humans....seriously...that is where the fun (and blood and tears) is.

[Blind Reverend]

The game AI is really not that great, might be some lucky dice throws that screwed your game.

Once you know the AI's typical game plan, its really easy to win. Just remember not to start your turn with risky moves. Always go for 2 dice blocks first. If you don't plan to blitz with a thrown down player, stand them up before you tke on any risks.

[konni]

Here's the kicker - the AI is playing with the same rules as you, and the same dice. The reason it seems hard is because Blood Bowl is not like chess, it is not like XCOM, and it is definitely not like any sports game. It is not a game that explains itself well, even the tutorial campaign, and it is not a game that you can learn by yourself if you don't have the basics down pat. I encourage you to find cKnoor on youtube and watch his beginners videos, even if you think it's retreading old ground. I encourage you to seek out experienced players willing to help (e.g. chat in cKnoor's steam community - there are other places like bbtactics forum or fumbl forum I assume - but that's the one I'm familiar with) and, if possible, play a game or two with an experienced player with voice chat who can teach you what you need to know to get started. No one expects you to be having fun if you can't beat the AI, and if you can't beat the AI you have a lot to learn. Good luck!

[CalUKGR]

Originally posted by cccino:

Here's the kicker - the AI is playing with the same rules as you, and the same dice. The reason it seems hard is because Blood Bowl is not like chess, it is not like XCOM, and it is definitely not like any sports game. It is not a game that explains itself well, even the tutorial campaign, and it is not a game that you can learn by yourself if you don't have the basics down pat. I encourage you to find cKnoor on youtube and watch his beginners videos, even if you think it's retreading old ground. I encourage you to seek out experienced players willing to help (e.g. chat in cKnoor's steam community - there are other places like bbtactics forum or fumbl forum I assume - but that's the one I'm familiar with) and, if possible, play a game or two with an experienced player with voice chat who can teach you what you need to know to get started. No one expects you to be having fun if you can't beat the AI, and if you can't beat the AI you have a lot to learn. Good luck!

Thank you - that's a kind comment with some useful suggestions. Despite the total whinge of my OP (I just had to get all that off my chest) I can't help myself from enjoying BB2. Even though I am clearly (absolutely beyond any doubt) a terrible player I still enjoy the slow pace, the thoughtfulness of the moment-to-moment gameplay. I just get really frustrated by 'the cheating' AI (and I'll never know if it really does cheat or simply knows what it's doing - as opposed to myself, who clearly doesn't).

I watch quite a few BB2 streams - yes, I really do like kicking back with a coffee and just watching other people (who do know what they're doing) play the game strategtically - and I enjoy their banter as they encounter each potential crisis along the way. I wish these players didn't make BB2 look so easy - because to a newb like me it's anything but.

Just on a side-note: although I have 21hrs logged with the PC version here on Steam, I probably have another 5hrs or so (so far) logged with the PS4 version. I have to say the PS4 version is really a pretty faithful reproduction of the PC version (or vice-versa) - although the PS4 AI is...very...slow...in...making...any...decisions. Seriously, sometimes the AI actually just sits back doing nothing until the timer runs out on it. The devs really need to sort that out.

[Askic]

You scored once in 21 hours VS the AI ? I can understand why you can't enjoy the game. The Ai isn't cheating at all, in the 8 games I played against it it even seemed more unlucky than average to me. You should follow cccino's advice and play against an experimented coach who could explain you what you are doing wrong, because there is definitely something that you are doing wrong. But yeah BB is harder to master than it looks like at first glance, and that's why I love this game. Keep trying to improve, and when you can beat the AI on 80% of the games, play multiplayer. It is way more fun and you will learn faster by playing against humans. Good luck !

[TheB0ulder]

QQ more and get rekt by Nuffle.

[Farsha]

Play few matches against real players, then you'll see how bad AI is.
25hr is not enough to get a grip of this game, also read stuff like art of blocking (google) and read thtough BB tactics web (try the tests there they are really great for understanding what you can do tacticaly in the game)

- AI can score, specially with Agi based teams (elf BS) but it cannot defend really well, it ussually does not pressure the ballcarrier enough at all.
And most notably AI does not realise what turn it is, it will not try to put it's players into scoring position on turn 7/8 15/16 for more risky end of half TD tries, that is a huge flaw and can be exploited too esily.
And no AI is not cheating it just makes so stupid moves, that when they work you thing it's cheat, but no, it's just all nuffle giving AI a good roll. When AI fails these stupid moves which is often you just don't rember it as well, like in the case when it pulls it off.

[CalUKGR]

Originally posted by Farsha:

Play few matches against real players, then you'll see how bad AI is.
25hr is not enough to get a grip of this game, also read stuff like art of blocking (google) and read thtough BB tactics web (try the tests there they are really great for understanding what you can do tacticaly in the game)

- AI can score, specially with Agi based teams (elf BS) but it cannot defend really well, it ussually does not pressure the ballcarrier enough at all.
And most notably AI does not realise what turn it is, it will not try to put it's players into scoring position on turn 7/8 15/16 for more risky end of half TD tries, that is a huge flaw and can be exploited too esily.
And no AI is not cheating it just makes so stupid moves, that when they work you thing it's cheat, but no, it's just all nuffle giving AI a good roll. When AI fails these stupid moves which is often you just don't rember it as well, like in the case when it pulls it off.

Yeah, I know - it's a game of strategy and luck - A LOT of luck. I have to try and remind myself of this every time my players get tripped, or fumble the ball or fluff a pass. I'm terrible at putting it into perspective. I think I've shouted at my computer/TV more lately than I have with any other game in a long time. Quite funny, really. I always think I'm going to pull off some grand plan, only to see it disintegrate moments later before my very eyes, lol.

This game. It really doesn't pull any punches.

[Captain Super Credit]

Hahahahahaha! (NOT laughing AT YOU).
This game is a board game with a BUNCH of complex rules. To master it you have practice practice practice. Many players have over 10 years experience.

Some things you can do If you dont want to give up or decide to come back...
Read the Rule Book (Google: Blood Bowl Living Rule Book) and learn how the dice are decided.
Then checkout some cool websites which outline strats for each team.
BBtactics.com is a great resource for this, as well as player skill ups.

Its a brutal game. 1s ALWAYS FAIL, and 6s ALWAYS achieve. Even the best of us have AWEFUL AWEFUL AWEFUL matches... and it rarely ever seems to any player that *everything is going my way*.

Best to just watch your opponents move (in your case the AI) and decide how you want to go about making your moves in the next turn... making the most likely actions first (2dice blocks etc). Once youre able to master that move on to Player placement... tackle zones placement to prevent player from moving.

Game takes WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY longer than 21 hours to figure out with genuine success.

Oh yeah, dont forget...... player management is huge too... so... knowing which players can be replaced easily etc...

The Game will destroy the faintest of cocky egos... which is why many of us love it... its just *for fun*.

The Table Top version was more like a hobby (paint the minitures etc).. people who tend to enjoy it take it as that... and the new players who follow suit generally are the ones who play long enough to gain some mastery at some of the teams.

Cheers
(hope ya feel better)

[Jethro Dull]

CalUKGR, to enjoy Blood Bowl there are different ways:

Watch it as a fun game and accept that you will loose. It is still funny to try silly things and to see what happens.

Get highly experianced and you will be able to win without severe tension. I win against the AI for example, but i feel the pressure nevertheless. Against humans i have to concentrate and then have a chance to win. Experianced players don't need to concentrate against AI at least.

Get extremely high experianced and accept Blood Bowl as a sport. Play it regularly in leagues and read everything about it to do the best you can to win against AI and human players. Of course then it will be competition and maybe feel a bit like work. :-)

[Captain Super Credit]

Having some of the gimmick teams might hold interest to people flaming out.... who wouldnt love throwing snotlings and halflings and goblins?

[Massakka]

Hi CalUKGR,
when I started playing BB2, I directly played in the NAF without any experience and ragequitted the first 10 games (and thought about deleting the game) due to bad rolls that SEEMED to be unfair to me.
Then I read a few tips and used these tips in games vs AI and my win ratio increased to 80% vs AI (with high elves). Meanwhile my NAF results (with Lizardman) are 12 - 4 - 2 (which I find is not that bad for a noob) and I really started to enjoy this game.
Here are my tips:
1. When you build your team buy min. 1 reroll (they are cheaper before the first match). You could buy some more cheaper players an replace them later with more expensive ones to buy more rerolls. Try to buy the apothecary after first or second match and save it for a permanent injury or death on important players.
2. It's all about avoiding risks. So plan your turn and start with the lowest risky moves.
3. As long as you have only 1-2 rerolls, SAVE THEM for critical situations that allow you to score (or to deny a TD of you opponent)
4. When you attack, your priority is to protect your ball carrier, so build a cage and slowly move forward until you have the chance to score. Never let you ball carrier alone.
5. When you defend, your priority is to slow the opponents cage so he cannot score. You don't need to get the ball.
6. In general try to avoid as much as possible to let the opponent hit your players.E.g. if you block 1 vs 1 and you roll a push - don't follow if it is not important.
7. I NEVER conceded any more. I had many games where i thought I'm gonna loose and thought about conceding again. But I continued to play and I didn't lose due to rolls or mistakes of my opponent. Hell, these games where the best and funniest in the end!
These tips are my personal experience, hopefully they can help you to win and to enjoy the game, finally.

PS: Sorry for my bad english

[khinra]

I guess the big difference here is whether you ever played the tabletop game or not,
I played it a lot like 20 years ago and the AI seems terrible to me, I have well over 100 wins and only 3 loses vs the AI so far. Learn the rules, learn risk management and accept that sometimes you get whacky rolls (the numnber of times I roll a 1 and reroll it into another 1 is just baffling).

[siggi]

Hi CalUKGR,
it seems u are not willing to give up on this game or u wouldnt have written that post.

This game is difficult indeed, but it is worth it.

Its a bit like chess on higher level.

Maybe read some guides and if u still have problems punshing the ♥♥♥♥ out of your opponents, maybe contact me and we´ll do some teaching :).

Feel free to. See ya

edit: maybe u should start playing orcs, they are strong and able to manage the ball, which makes them the easiest team in my oppinion