Sooo, how are you supposed to win with amazons?

[Döktor Jönes]

I tried them. Played 7 games with them. I don't get them.

I read in the guides "running wide cage".
Srsly?
Running?
Maybe nobody cared to explain the term, but what does running mean in that context???
They are so slow and I can't do the usual elf stuff that could circumvent their low movement.
Dodge might help their survivability, but if they stand before a wall that can't be penetrated with their low strength?
Running around the wall? With what movement? I can't even set-up a scoring thread with my catchers, because they're SOOOO SLOOOW.


In general, not only for Amazons, I get the feeling there is something in these guides and advices that they don't tell, because they assume everyone knows everything.

Yeah, I'm ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ mad, I know, I just need to vent some steam.

[Zorlond]

Originally posted by DarthPhysicist:

Wrestle has its place, but there is such a thing as too much. There is never too much block.

Well, you may be misunderstanding my last statement. When I say I have six Linewomen on an Amazon team, most with Wrestle, they're not all on the field at once. Four Blitzers, Two Catchers, One Thrower (one for offense, one for defense), and that leaves four spots for Linewomen (Kicker Blodge on defense). Not an unreasonable amount of Wrestle on the field.

And for anyone who thinks I run with too deep a bench, I just have to point to all the people in this very thread who keep saying Amazons are fragile.

[DarthPhysicist]

Amazons are best cheap. the blitzers and the linewomen are all you need.

and 4 wrestle is too much, especially on the bench

[Zorlond]

Originally posted by DarthPhysicist:

Amazons are best cheap.

In which case you never play them above 1200, cutting yourself off from most of the game and even preventing yourself from getting more than one skill per player on your team of 11.

I, on the other hand, am having loads of fun passing, running, and bashing with a deep bench of lvl 3-4 players through the 1500-1700 TV range. So...

[DarthPhysicist]

You're kidding right? You can level up with loads of skills for <1500 without adding the catchers and throwers. They are one of the most TV efficient teams around so while you keep your TV low, you can kick the crap out of other low TV teams that are simply undeveloped, all without passing at all. You might find it fun to pass all day, but if you want to win, forget about it.

[Zorlond]

Originally posted by DarthPhysicist:

You're kidding right? You can level up with loads of skills for <1500 without adding the catchers and throwers. They are one of the most TV efficient teams around so while you keep your TV low, you can kick the crap out of other low TV teams that are simply undeveloped, all without passing at all. You might find it fun to pass all day, but if you want to win, forget about it.

Oh -that's- your logical assumption. Right there. Nobody 'passes all day', not even high elves. On Amazons, at most, I get two good passes in (7 squares or less) the entire game, and I don't even do one pass every game.

That's the entire basis of your argument here? You actually think the entire 100% of the plan is to pass? Sheesh, you just skipped over all the clues, hints, and even blatant statements that it's just one approach among all three. If the best answer is run, I run. If the best answer is bash, I bash. And if the best answer is pass, then I pass. Apparently the very concept of 'jack of all trades' is just swahili to you.

That's the strength of human teams. No opponent can counter all three plans simultaneously (most just straight up suck at one or another, like Halflings and bashing)

[DarthPhysicist]

Originally posted by Zorlond:

'jack of all trades' is just swahili to you.

Yeah that's me. Just ignorant and inept at the game.

[Zorlond]

Originally posted by DarthPhysicist:

Originally posted by Zorlond:

'jack of all trades' is just swahili to you.

Yeah that's me. Just ignorant and inept at the game.

Well at least you admit it. Now how about not offering advice you don't have?

[DarthPhysicist]

Originally posted by Zorlond:

Well at least you admit it. Now how about not offering advice you don't have?

Just about as fast as you shut the ♥♥♥♥ up.

[licker34]

Look, it's great if people want to play the game however they want to play the game. Making stupid rosters with crap skills might be fun if you like that sort of thing.

But, and here's the only issue really, don't run around the forums pretending you have any clue what you're talking about, you don't.

[koadah]

Originally posted by ADEnglish:

I didn't want to get involved in the thrower epic.

However, amazon blitzers get guard stand firm. One guard mighty blow. Usually guard first.

Primary goal of zons is protection and positioning. They are not a bash team like orks or dwarfs are a bash team. Much like other human teams are not a bash teams, unless facing a squishy opponent.

I wouldn't go guard first on three or four blitzers. Some of the guides/advice may seem to (accidentally?) imply that all positionals are built the same way. That is all wrong IMO. A team should take what it needs. What it needs will change as the team changes.

Though I said MB, I often take tackle first. I'll then aim to get that player to tackle-POMB ASAP. In that case, guard on the next two is good. I might still go MB on the fourth.

With four guards you still may not be stronger than the real bashers. IMO you don't want to get into a toe to toe battle with them anyway. You are still going to have fairly even strength with hybrid teams so a couple of guards is enough to start with. The guards should be mobile so that you can get them where you need them. Rather than spamming like dwarves. Dodge helps with mobility.

[koadah]

Originally posted by Zorlond:

Originally posted by koadah:

Wrestle? Might be OK if you'd taken block on some of those others. As you haven't it should be block. Early on block does damage to blockless players. Later when more opponents have block, wrestle gains value.

Considering the love affair most coaches have with Block (including some others in this thread...

Originally posted by avaririot:

Amazons are all about blodge blodge blodge and more blodge.

... taking Wrestle is perfectly logical option, since Wrestle overrides Block. Most of my six Linewomen on an Amazon team would be Wrestlers, except for the Kicker who would indeed be Blodge. Throwing a Blocker against a ball carrier who also has Block risks a useless Blitz. Throwing a Wrestler at the same ball carrier and you've got much better odds of getting the ball dropped.

Of course, you want a wrackler or two. They are especially nice on zons as they are just as quick as blitzers. But you don't need five of them. Especially early on.

[Döktor Jönes]

Update:
7:6:7
Only need one draw.

But I still don't get it how they are a good team.
My goal is now to become the best Amazon Coach there ever was, just to prove that they aren't a good team and it's just Dwarf propaganda.

[Dode]

Top teams for Amazon on PC CCL:
1. dionysian 16-4-2 (72.19),
2. Willking15 15-4-3 (68.21),
3. Panicoblack 15-4-7 (61.33)

[koadah]

Originally posted by Spiked-Wall Man:

Update:
7:6:7
Only need one draw.

But I still don't get it how they are a good team.
My goal is now to become the best Amazon Coach there ever was, just to prove that they aren't a good team and it's just Dwarf propaganda.

It is bit of an environment thing. At low TV or leagues where people don't take much tackle they look very good. They start to suffer as teams get more tackle and blitz with their tackle POMBer.

[Hairy Coo]

Originally posted by Zorlond:

Originally posted by DarthPhysicist:

Amazons are best cheap.

In which case you never play them above 1200, cutting yourself off from most of the game and even preventing yourself from getting more than one skill per player on your team of 11.

I, on the other hand, am having loads of fun passing, running, and bashing with a deep bench of lvl 3-4 players through the 1500-1700 TV range. So...

Lol I would love to play such a bloated team that try to pass with ag 3. Elfs or rats will have you for breakfast, and you will be losing games fast if you try something else but no fouling/stalling league.