Gutter Runner - Skill or movement?

[Caridor]

Hello BloodBowl hivemind!

So my first gutter runner leveled up (finally. third game of the league) and I rolled a 6 and a 4, which means a skill, a movement point or an armour value (lol).

So normally, a movement point would be a no brainer but gutter runners are already stupid fast, so it seems excessive. I've had success in the past with going for Dauntless so gutter runners have some offensive capability but I thought I'd ask for more experienced player's opinions.

[DarthPhysicist]

MA hands down

[Kejiruze]

MOVEMENT. Literally every Skaven coach should be desperate for move up Gutters.

Second time I've seen this question recently :/

If you give it sprint (then sure feet, hopefully a doubles for two heads, or even an Agi up) you can sit it on the half way line give it the ball and click the endzone.

[Hairy Coo]

Hivemind, thats funny :) one that always argues internally.

Ma10 player is never a bad idea. U can either specialize him for natura ottd by giving him sprint next ornjust have a very fast ballcarrier/receiver with blodge step ma10.

Dauntless is kinda meh, i take it on a second wreste gutter if i aready have wrestle strip. And even then i pray for horns or +str instead.

[Caridor]

Ok, thanks everyone. He's going to be one speedy rat.

[RodHull]

You need 1 MA gunner
1 Dauntless wrastle gunner
1 blodgestep gunner
1 other gunner

And you can pretty much win any match by making a few 1d and 2d rolls if the dice are feeling nice to you... but you do have to play Skaven which makes you a filthy scumbag who deserves nothing but death.

[Hairy Coo]

I’d argue u need two wrestle gutters, as they are likely to die young.

First one should go wrestle strip and should be forcefed before he reaches these two skills. Skaven are all about going after the ball and without this guy ur tools are limited early on. On the other hand, only so many teams start with sure hands bc so early wrestle strip is very good.

Second gutter should go wreste and horns/strength/dauntless. Dauntless is a poor mans option but will do in a pinch.

[Caridor]

For wrestle, you'll most likely need +2 strength from assists in order to get a 2 dice block, while with dauntless, you only need 1.

I'm guessing it's better because there are 2 sides of the dice (potentially 3 if the enemy doesn't have dodge) where the defender goes down, instead of 1/2? Better to make a 50% block on 1 dice, than a 33% block on 2?

I dunno, I'm just trying to work through this in my mind and it's not quite computing for me.

[RodHull]

+ag and strip ball is also pretty nice, lets be frank here gunners + any skills or stat ups are good they are digsusting players who are always good in all forms, even joke gunners with silly mutations can win you games, their only weakness is literally they die a lot :)

[Hairy Coo]

Originally posted by Caridor:

For wrestle, you'll most likely need +2 strength from assists in order to get a 2 dice block, while with dauntless, you only need 1.

I'm guessing it's better because there are 2 sides of the dice (potentially 3 if the enemy doesn't have dodge) where the defender goes down, instead of 1/2? Better to make a 50% block on 1 dice, than a 33% block on 2?

I dunno, I'm just trying to work through this in my mind and it's not quite computing for me.

Its not choice beetween wrestle and dauntless. U need both wrestle and some way to make it at least 1d. 1d wreste dauntless hit against someone without dodge is 4+ to sack and 2+ not to fail, odds are not so bad. +str or horns is still preferable imo as dauntless requires another roll. Also sometimes bc is str 2 (gutter, skinks, stunty, etc), and dauntless is useless then.

As i said, wrestle dauntless is poor mans choice but it will do in a pinch

[Kejiruze]

Wrestle and Strip Ball vs a non Surehands player you have something like a 70% chance to get the ball off the carrier on a red dice block.


I've seen slackers built Wrestle Strip Leap before Dauntless and they do very well.


You don't need a white dice block to get the ball off the carrier.

[RodHull]

Originally posted by Kejiruze:

Wrestle and Strip Ball vs a non Surehands player you have something like a 70% chance to get the ball off the carrier on a red dice block.


I've seen slackers built Wrestle Strip Leap before Dauntless and they do very well.


You don't need a white dice block to get the ball off the carrier.

This... with a reroll you only need to avoid a skull choice and your golden. But again it requires playing skaven which means you should be castrated (or neutered) if you play them :)

[PapaNasty]

Yeah 31% chance of a skull. Means only about a 9% chance of a skull if you are willing to burn a reroll.

Scatter usually kinda sucks with stripball, and surehands negates it, but it’s still extremely powerful when you’re able to just dive into a cage with it.

Personally I go for dauntless over +str/horns, as it means your gutters can hit stuff when Not blitzing and doesn’t require doubles (which could go towards two heads or extra long legs instead).

Only 1x doubles on my current CCL gutters, and it was +str, but I skipped it for twoheads instead. Same gutter also rolled +MA so turned out to be a particularly good decision :)

[Caridor]

Originally posted by Hairy Coo:

Originally posted by Caridor:

For wrestle, you'll most likely need +2 strength from assists in order to get a 2 dice block, while with dauntless, you only need 1.

I'm guessing it's better because there are 2 sides of the dice (potentially 3 if the enemy doesn't have dodge) where the defender goes down, instead of 1/2? Better to make a 50% block on 1 dice, than a 33% block on 2?

I dunno, I'm just trying to work through this in my mind and it's not quite computing for me.

Its not choice beetween wrestle and dauntless. U need both wrestle and some way to make it at least 1d. 1d wreste dauntless hit against someone without dodge is 4+ to sack and 2+ not to fail, odds are not so bad. +str or horns is still preferable imo as dauntless requires another roll. Also sometimes bc is str 2 (gutter, skinks, stunty, etc), and dauntless is useless then.

As i said, wrestle dauntless is poor mans choice but it will do in a pinch

Well, you got to get one of them first.

[Hairy Coo]

Well, it shouldnt be too hard to get 2 skills on all gutters within first 5-10 games (provided they dont die ofc). Skaven favor aggressive high score play and gutters are great at scoring.

Gutter with strip ball doesnt need dauntless, I agree. Wreste-strip-leap and he is just fine. I usually build one like this and a second with wrestle-dauntless/horns/str and tackle.

[licker34]

Dauntless is like the 4th or 5th skill on a gutter anyway, totally acceptable to just fire healthy 4 skill gutters who don't roll anything interesting. Assuming you have cash to replace them anyway.