Is extra armor ever worth it?

[Uporcpine]

And if yes on who?

[Arlen Tektolnes]

Weren't you two arguing that Orc throwers are the absolute worst thing in the world, primarily due to having lower AV?

It seems like an odd view to hold in conjunction with 'AV is worthless'.

[koadah]

Messaggio originale di licker34:

Dode refuses to see it this way because he's a pedant...

He is.

But he's still right. ;)

[Dode]

Messaggio originale di licker34:

I see no need to be so charitable. I mean what's the ultimate question? Does taking a certain skill improve your team.

Taking AV on a lineman DOES NOT IMPROVE YOUR TEAM. Thus, it is 'worthless'. (actually worse than worthless, but whatever)

Dode refuses to see it this way because he's a pedant when it comes to his personal definitions of words. However, he fails to realize that the actual meaning of a word is dependant on the context it is being used in.

Time after time he plays this semantical game when he knows he's basically pissingin the wind and hopes that enough obfuscation on what the actual question was, and answer given, will make people forget about what was actually said.

Utter ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ from a total ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ artist. Words have meaning: use the right word or you're conveying the wrong meaning. "Worthless" has a meaning, and it is not the same as "sub-optimal" regardless of how you try to redefine words.

I'm done with the subject but if you're going to defame me then I will respond to your lies.

[DarthPhysicist]

Messaggio originale di Arlen Tektolnes:

Weren't you two arguing that Orc throwers are the absolute worst thing in the world, primarily due to having lower AV?

It seems like an odd view to hold in conjunction with 'AV is worthless'.

No because an orc thrower with an av bonus is now 100tv worth of ♥♥♥♥.

[Dode]

Messaggio originale di koadah:

Messaggio originale di licker34:

Dode refuses to see it this way because he's a pedant...

He is.

But he's still right. ;)

Thinking charitably, maybe this is a US English vs proper English misunderstanding?

[koadah]

Messaggio originale di Dode:

Messaggio originale di koadah:

He is.

But he's still right. ;)

Thinking charitably, maybe this is a US English vs proper English misunderstanding?

I think it is more to do with thinking that one's opinion is the absolute truth in all situations.

Maybe that is an American trait. ;)

Maybe that is why they like that President guy.

[licker34]

Messaggio originale di Dode:

Messaggio originale di koadah:

He is.

But he's still right. ;)

Thinking charitably, maybe this is a US English vs proper English misunderstanding?

No, it's an understanding of context and how not all words have to have only one meaning or one useage.

If you feel defamed perhaps you need to reasses your stance on how language is used. Nothing I have said is incorrect. It's your personal interpretation of my statements as attacks on you which is entirely due to your interpretation of the words used.

You are a pedant. (this isn't a bad thing)

You enjoy turing conversations into debates on the meaning of words which are clearly understood in the context of the discussion to have a specific meaning relative to said discussion.

You do this repeatedly when you are losing a point, or are simply wrong in your assesment of whatever topic.

You can look at those as attacks if you like. I have no reason to attack you though, I only attack the arguments. And when someone is clearly wrong, yet continues to attempt to obfuscate the point by simply talking about how words were misused, well, I search for reasons why that may be case.

And yes, I know you will say something about mr. opinion as fact, but the problem there is the same as the problem here. You don't understand the facts in many of these discussions.

You had an issue with someone saying +AV (on linemen) was 'worthless'. You could have simply stated that it's sub-optimal and left it there. Did you do that?

The proof is all over this thread.

Why you would even care if someone said it was 'worthless' is beyond anyone at this point. Howver, in point of fact, it is both sub-optimal and worthless depending on what particular question you are trying to answer.

It's also useful, in the niche case of specific circumstances. Though those circumstances are basically pointless to argue as they are extremely niche, and most questions are asked looking for the general answer. If you bother to actually read the intial replies you will see these niche aspects did get lip service, which then left it to the OP to decide how relevant they were to his circumstance.

[licker34]

Messaggio originale di Arlen Tektolnes:

Weren't you two arguing that Orc throwers are the absolute worst thing in the world, primarily due to having lower AV?

It seems like an odd view to hold in conjunction with 'AV is worthless'.

You cannot possibly be so stupid as to not understand that there is a difference between starting AV and wasting a skill slot on improving it can you?

That's a rhetorical question by the way.

[Dode]

No, it's an understanding of context and how not all words have to have only one meaning or one useage.

Which is why, when questioned, it should be clarified. Darth did so and clarified as I expected: the meaning of worthless meaning "worth nothing". This is wrong.

...more ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥...

licker, you're talking bollocks again. It used to be that it was possible to have an actual two-way conversation with you, but you're so hard over on your opinion being fact, and in deflection (something you do all the time) that it's actually not possible now. If there were an ignore function you'd be on it because there is no two-way flow of information with you. You are almost actually worthless in these discussions because it's not a discussion when you are involved. The proof of that is all over this forum. FUMBBL too, lately.
You do, most of the time, give good advice. But that advice is opinion and nothing more. If your opinion on how to play BB best were indisputable fact then you'd be a far better player than you are. The fact that there are better players than you means your decisions must, at some point, be wrong. That means your advice also likely is. Or are you going to blame it all on the dice?

You had an issue with someone saying +AV (on linemen) was 'worthless'. You could have simply stated that it's sub-optimal and left it there. Did you do that?

Erm, yes. Then that person came back and said clarified that they meant worthless (see post #20). Who should drop it here? And why are you the arbiter of that? And absolute was used and is demonstrably incorrect. You can sit in your circlejerk of ignorance and claim the meaning was different all you like, but it was clarified.

Why you would even care if someone said it was 'worthless' is beyond anyone at this point.

Because words have meaning. You might like to play with the meaning of yours, but when the meaning is made clear and there is disagreement over a concept which has been made clear then discussion happens.

If you bother to actually read the intial replies you will see these niche aspects did get lip service, which then left it to the OP to decide how relevant they were to his circumstance.

If you bother to read them you'd have noticed that mine was one of those which did that. It stopped being about the OP's question quite some time ago.

[licker34]

Messaggio originale di Dode:

If you bother to read them you'd have noticed that mine was one of those which did that. It stopped being about the OP's question quite some time ago.

Becuase of...

That's right, your inability to let any topic like this go.

Do even understand how language functions? At times I really wonder.

Is there any possible way to misconstrue what 'worthless' means in the context of this dicussion?

Apparently there is, but it seems you are the only one with the inability to understand it.

worth·less
ˈwərTHləs/
adjective
adjective: worthless

having no real value or use.
"that promise is worthless"
synonyms: valueless; poor quality, inferior, second-rate, third-rate, low-grade, cheap, shoddy, tawdry, cheesy;
informalcrummy, nickel-and-dime, low-rent
"the item was worthless"

Again, properly used in this context.

[avaririot]

Messaggio originale di DarthPhysicist:

Messaggio originale di avaririot:

So AV9 is worthless because of claw? Gotcha.

At high TV? Gonna be flamboyant here: yes. AV 9 is useful for low TV. At high TV where Claw is a thing, you want to be either a claw wielding basher, or an av 7 elf/rat. Adding +AV doesn't make the team function any better and in the long run, doesn't even help them survive. Teams like norse need to be kept as trim as possible, especially in a MM environment where they are (ideally) matched with similary TV. An AV 10 dorf is the same as AV 9 is the same as 7 when it faces Claw...

Bullocks, +AV helps against normal blocks, MB blocks and fouling, all of which will combine for waaaay more armor rolls on the palyer than Claw. I play Norse (1700's) and Skaven (1900-2k) in bash heavy high TV COL and my +AV linos are the best linemen I have.

[Dode]

That's right, your inability to let any topic like this go.

That's rich! You've had the last post in this sort of topic every time so far. I've been the one to walk away. Hypocrite.

Do even understand how language functions? At times I really wonder.

I do indeed. You're the one regularly conflating words like "opinion" and "fact".

Is there any possible way to misconstrue what 'worthless' means in the context of this dicussion?

I understood it in terms of the dictionary definition, which you so kindly provided:

having no real value or use.

And yet it does have real value or use! Again, higher AV breaks less than lower AV - I doubt even you would dispute that. Whether that "value or use" is greater than other options is neither here nor there: it does have value.

Now I expect you to go down the "but the synonyms..." route. A synonym can have exactly or nearly the same meaning as the word for which it is a synonym, but "inferior" and "worthless" are not the same; something can have some worth but be inferior, just as it can have no worth (i.e. be worthless) and be inferior. That's why there are so many words with almost the same meaning: nuance.

[licker34]

You ignore the context, as usual.

Yes, AV10 breaks less than AV9.

However, no one is arguing that. Covered the reasons before, completely understand why you continue to ignore them and instead focus on the one aspect literally no one cares about.

Because you cannot accept the context which invalidates your premise. And yet, that context is the ONLY thing which is relevant to this discussion.

Taking +AV on a line orc is worthless in the context of does it help you to win. That's quite literally the only thing which matters, and maybe no one said it explicitly, because, you know, it's just so obvious?

No idea why you fixate on meaningless distinctions, but you must enjoy it I guess.

[Franz]

No need for synonyms. The thing in question has no real use, you said yourself it is ("probably", ofc) not the optimal choice, which means there are other things that have more use, to the extent this one has a theoretical value, not a real one.

This is surreal, again getting close to 100 posts of "you don't understand nuance" while refusing to let go one word that someone said on a forum to convey an idea.

[avaririot]

Messaggio originale di licker34:

You ignore the context, as usual.

Yes, AV10 breaks less than AV9.

However, no one is arguing that. Covered the reasons before, completely understand why you continue to ignore them and instead focus on the one aspect literally no one cares about.

Because you cannot accept the context which invalidates your premise. And yet, that context is the ONLY thing which is relevant to this discussion.

Taking +AV on a line orc is worthless in the context of does it help you to win. That's quite literally the only thing which matters, and maybe no one said it explicitly, because, you know, it's just so obvious?

No idea why you fixate on meaningless distinctions, but you must enjoy it I guess.

Because getting the AV 9 of an Orc lino = CHAMPIONSHIIIIIP

That's the crux of your orc thrower meltdowns, amiright?