Amazon - optimal TV and number of playes

[skydancer]

Zons are very strong team early on and i'm doing well in champ ladder with those cheesy girls.

My tv is about to hit 1500TV and i've 13 players. What do you think is optimal TV and number of players with zons in a MM league?

[DarthPhysicist]

That sounds high to me, but I guess it depends on your stat ups. Without st and ag bonuses getting you there, you might need to examine what skills actually get used and which ones just end up doing nothing.

[VoodooMike]

Originally posted by "skydancer":

My tv is about to hit 1500TV and i've 13 players. What do you think is optimal TV and number of players with zons in a MM league?

The lower your TV the better. Amazons are absolutely a cheese team, but their strength is the ability to quickly field a whole lot of blodge... do exactly that, while keeping your TV as low as you possibly can.

Your players are the ultimate in disposable - don't get attached to any of them, and focus on making a bunch of blodging linewomen. You might want some blitzers on a fresh team to get the ball rolling, but consider getting rid of them as you firm up the blodging linewomen who basically turn into blitzers after one MVP, minus the strength access, for 20k less.

Resist the temptation to build stars... for amazons in MM, almost anything is bloat after block. Given that you can replace linewomen for cheap, get comfortable giving them their walking papers to keep your TV down.

Now, the main issue you'll have is that while this strategy will let you dominate in open MM, it will not give you a team that is likely to do much if you ever qualify for the champion cup... if you know you're going to do that, you may want to spend a bit of time prepping for it with additional utility skills.

So, the short version: maybe... 900 TV and 11 easily replaceable players? With the 500 TV maximum difference, and an average difference much lower than that, the threat of player loss is not going to be as high as it is for other teams that need more TV, and your linewomen are easily and cheaply replaced and rebuilt. Use your overwhelming blodge advantage to hand low TV teams their asses before they have any hope of matching it. Beward of any team with the word "Dwarf" in it.

[Döktor Jönes]

All that optimal TV in the world doesn't matter, if you face dorf, chorfs or coaches that really hate amazones and go for tackle first

[VoodooMike]

Originally posted by Spiked-Wall Man:

All that optimal TV in the world doesn't matter, if you face dorf, chorfs or coaches that really hate amazones and go for tackle first

Hence the last line of my original post. Amazon teams perform poorly against Dwarf and Chaos Dwarf teams because they all have early tackle and plenty of block, which negate the early advantage that amazons enjoy.

Those are only 2 rosters out of more than 20... the rest of the time you'll be enjoying an almost unfair advantage over your opponents.

[Hairy Coo]

I'd optimise by taking 4 blitzers, 1 catcher for a carrier and the rest of linewoman. Might be ok with 12 players, because 11 is just to unreliable with av7 and ag3 (fail a dodge or suffer a pow and that could be it), but more is a a bloat - if you run into mb tackle even 14 might not save you. Zons are actually not fast and not that agile, so playing down in numbers might be hard.

What Mike is suggesting also works, but it is kinda super boring imo. But then again, zons are kinda a boring one-trick pony, might as well treat them as one.

[licker34]

Super optimized zons do not run anything but line women. They also don't care what their TV gets to, they are pretty competitive no matter what, though, rely on stat ups to reach higher TVs usually.

That may not be a very exciting way to play them, but frankly, there isn't an exciting way to play them regardless. They are a team where the base stats of every single player is the same and the best way to build them is to take the obvious good skills. They can't really branch into anything different, either lacking stats or skill access, so you wind up with a mess of blodged players, as much guard as you can cram in there, and sprinkle in tackle as necessary.

You still are at a disadvantage in any matchup with any tackle heavy team and there is simply nothing you can do about it.

[skydancer]

Sure it's the more rock paper etc.... Team ever. I woul like them being a bit different as they're not really intresting to play and develop outside a mm league.

[VoodooMike]

Originally posted by "licker34":

Super optimized zons do not run anything but line women. They also don't care what their TV gets to, they are pretty competitive no matter what, though, rely on stat ups to reach higher TVs usually.

The first part is true, but the second part is not - the win rate on FUMBBL, which would be where you've played or encountered them for the most part - is a pretty persistent downward slope from the lowest TVs to the highest TVs.

If someone is aiming for the optimal TV level for Amazons, it's "as low as you can keep it". The blodging advantage they have starts to fade the higher they go.

[licker34]

The zon numbers from FUMBBL are not for only linewoman builds, they include all builds. I also did not suggest that they maintain the same win rate, only that they are still competitive.

The thing is that the all linewoman build maintains greater efficiency throughout TV levels, so you're just taking that advantage further, but the relative advantage does decrease with TV as opponents will have more tackle (and other skills) generally.

They also will rarely get to higher TVs and stay there. So, my point was that you shouldn't worry about constantly trimming your TV unless you really want to. You can let the TV go up naturally and it will self correct at some point anyway.