How good is the Eternal League?

[axi]

Still thinking about buying, but I'm an offline player, so there was not much the game could offer me before LE hit.

Share your experience, please.

[Sir Texas Sir]

Originally posted by Psyringe:

Originally posted by Tyr:

Don't listen to the elitists here, its fun and you don't always have to play multiplayer. Eternal league is a lot of fun, it reminds me of the old career mode in BB1

People don't need to be "elitists" to point out flaws in the AI. They are really glaringly obvious. It's kind of sad that such discussions always lead to some people starting the name-calling.

Can the game still be fun in single player? Sure, as long as one's own skill level is fairly low. It's similar to me playing multi-player shooters. I'm really bad at those so I'm fine playing with bots, I'm simply not good enough to recognize their flaws. Competent players _will_ see these flaws and will not enjoy playing against these bots, but since I'm not a competent player in this type of games, the bots are still good enough for me.

Same with Blood Bowl. The AI is decent as long as you're learning the game, but as soon as you've grown competent, you'll notice glaring flaws that will make matches against AI much less enjoyable (if you want a challenge).

It's perfectly understandable from both perspectives, I don't really understand where the need for name-calling is coming from.

You kinda explained it better here about how some folks view this game. Yah I have about 100+ hours (some of that is AFK with the game on) but i'm not some player that has been playing this version of the game for a long time. Every time I get to playing I get frustrated and things just go down hill from there and I stop playing. Or if I try to play against other players I get curbed stomped so bad cause my team that has only just be created gets matched up with some one with very high TV. Than the player isn't nice and just crushes my team. I get no rewards or a very poor pay out (I refuse to quit games even if it's unmatched) that I can't afford to replace any injured or killed players. Hell I'm looking at some of the SUPPOSE newplayer leagues in game right now and there are some players with TV's of 1400 and more. How is that going to help any new players?

While all along these competent players (ok not etlistes but what ever) are telling us AI is stupid and we are bad players just turns folks off from trying multiplayer when if we are having this much problem with AI how are we going to even have a chance against other players?

And I do think I'm not understanding TV at all cause there is nothing that explains this in game. Now that I know AI doesn't count SPP on team would explain why later on I'm facing teams with lower TV, but has much better players than mine. Do we know if this will get fixed any time soon?

[Psyringe]

Originally posted by Sir Texas Sir:

So your saying Easy mode is prob more like Hard mode cause it does stupid stuff?

No. Dode said (correctly) that the AI isn't very good regardless of what level you set it to. It just fails differently on "easy" than it does on "hard". On easy, it fails because it tries stupid things (occasionally it may succeed, but it fails much more often). On hard, it fails because doesn't realize when the situation calls for taking a risk.

Originally posted by Sir Texas Sir:

I been playing on Easy and it's the fact I had one match where I got constant 1-2's on all my rolls why the AI never got a roll below a 4 for the most part.

AI level does not influence rolls and the AI does not cheat with rolls. This is easy to check since the game and all its rolls get logged completely. Never trust your impression of who's been (un)lucky with rolls - always do the actual math, it may surprise you. I've played games where my opponent insisted that the RNG was favoring my to the point of cheating, until I showed them that they actually had better rolls on average than I got. I've also played matched where I was convinced that the RNG was shafting me, but checking the statistics afterwards showed no evidence of such. The human mind is not great at processing probabilities.

Originally posted by Sir Texas Sir:

Oh and love how the guys that say, "I'm not elite but above average" All ways have private accounts. Watch it you have hundred of hours in game.

Dode is a very experienced player, and he's open-minded enough to recognize his limitations.

Originally posted by Sir Texas Sir:

I have never been able to get a team past 10 games cause of loosing players and the win pay out hardly pays you crap. Specially if you win a League there is no extra pay outs. Can't afford to replace injured or lost players so you have to just go make a new team and start over.

Which teams have you played so far? Dealing with injuries and losing players is part of the game. Some teams are much more fragile than others, and that's a factor that players need to consider when choosing a match plan. For example, if you have expensive AV7 players, then getting into lots of brawls may not be the best approach.

[bukkie661]

Originally posted by Sir Texas Sir:

So your saying Easy mode is prob more like Hard mode cause it does stupid stuff? I been playing on Easy and it's the fact I had one match where I got constant 1-2's on all my rolls why the AI never got a roll below a 4 for the most part.

To explain how it works. Easy is actually the hardest mode you can play at because the AI will do crazy stuff and dice permitting it will steamroll you. It's quite funny actually, if you can appreciate the humor of it all. Basically, it doesn't care about turn-overs and even a broken clock is right two times a day.
Hard is actually easier because the AI favors save dicerolls at that level, and the upside is that it doesn't stall a scoring drive.

[CalUKGR]

I've only ever played the game in SP and in that sense it has always been fairly entertaining and more than enough for me. No interest at all in playing online.

Eternal League is a good new mode. I mean, if all I want to do is play against the AI why would I be dissatified with it? But the AI is no push-over - I get handed my butt over-and-over. All my plans and strategies get undermined and ultimately stopped dead by the AI in one way or another. It's frustrating, but still I go back for more. I play the game more on PS4, tbh, as I just like to kick back with a coffee and take my time and I find the game actually works pretty well on the console - well enough for me (I am totally not an expert player and I still really only have a vague understanding of the many intricacies of the play).

So, yeah - Eternal Mode is a nice to have. The 8 new races are fun, too. All-in-all, I guess I'm happy with the expansion. Didn't really expect anything more for the game this late in its life, so all good.

[KhanIndustries]

I came from BB1LE and to be honest I was perfectly happy with that. I got this only after the LE released because with the Eternal SP. I'm assuming your like me and play mainly SP, if so here is the good and bad... at least in my humble opinion compared to BB1's SP:

The Good:
The Eternal League does seem like a big plus compared to BB1's SP experience. The main reason (for me) was that if you recall in BB1, when you'd kill or -attribute injury an opponent's player, the next time you faced them their team's roster would be magically regenerated and it just felt that the game just created teams on the fly to try and match your TV. So in short, injuries caused to other teams didn't really do anything in the long run in BB1 it felt like. Now it really does affect that team in a cup. You can see their roster and see their player is carrying that injury around, dead players really are getting replaced by the AI now.

Replays actually WORK and don't get borked when an injury happens!!! A++++++++!!

Cabal Vision is really cool, very easy to watch games being played and nice search features.

(minor)
Graphics are improved, although to be honest they seem pretty close to me still.

The Bad:
I HATE the new log. I really, really miss the old log style where it put everything in a scrollable box and you could go back to see rolls and stuff. Now it just puts it on the botton and scrolls sideways and I can't find a way to make it like BB1's log.

AI seems afraid to pass compared to BB1. The AI plays Elf teams way better in BB1 compared to BB2 IMHO. In BB1 they would score all over you if you weren't careful. There is a difficulty setting in BB2 and I tried messing with the different settings but the AI plays a bit too defensive when it has the ball now regardless of the setting. So in short, I think the AI is a little better in BB1 especially with high agility teams.

After your team gets built up some and your TV gets higher, it feels like I'm facing the same two star players every other match. A Chainsaw and bomber player. Gets a little old after a while to be honest. It's not so much that I mind them, I just wish they'd switch it up some because playing against the same two guys.... just feels a little stale. I wish they'd switch it up some more is all.

(minor)
I miss the old cheerleaders. My chaos slave girls, gone :(


Overall it's worth it IMHO. Just my two cents.

[Psyringe]

Originally posted by Sir Texas Sir:

if I try to play against other players I get curbed stomped so bad cause my team that has only just be created gets matched up with some one with very high TV. Than the player isn't nice and just crushes my team. I get no rewards or a very poor pay out (I refuse to quit games even if it's unmatched) that I can't afford to replace any injured or killed players.

The matchmaking algorithm should prevent very uneven matches, but even if they do happen, you should get lots of inducements to reduce the gap. How do you use your inducements in such games?

Regarding the "no quitting" - I understand where you're coming from, because I never quit games either, but it's important to understand that we're handicapping ourselves. Conceding a game is a valid option to prevent damage to your team. I never concede, but that's my personal preference, and I have to live with the fact that this sometimes crushes my teams beyond recognition in a situation that would have been completely preventable by conceding.

Originally posted by Sir Texas Sir:

While all along these competent players (ok not etlistes but what ever) are telling us AI is stupid and we are bad players just turns folks off from trying multiplayer when if we are having this much problem with AI how are we going to even have a chance against other players?

First of all, I think people don't mean to discourage you (but I can understand why some of the things that are said, end up being discouraging unintentionally). Most people here will be happy to help others improving their skills. The best way is probably to find a nice community with experienced people who give hints after the match - you may lose the match, but you'll learn from it. I remember that it wasn't particularly difficult to find such communities in BB1, I don't have enough experience with BB2 to recommend one though.

Originally posted by Sir Texas Sir:

And I do think I'm not understanding TV at all cause there is nothing that explains this in game. Now that I know AI doesn't count SPP on team would explain why later on I'm facing teams with lower TV, but has much better players than mine. Do we know if this will get fixed any time soon?

It will probably be fixed. And you're right, many things in the game aren't explained very well. There _are_ great guides for Blood Bowl around though. Search or "Blood Bowl Tactics" or "Blood Bowl playbooks".

[Sir Texas Sir]

Originally posted by Bogor Represent!:

Originally posted by Sir Texas Sir:

So your saying Easy mode is prob more like Hard mode cause it does stupid stuff? I been playing on Easy and it's the fact I had one match where I got constant 1-2's on all my rolls why the AI never got a roll below a 4 for the most part.

To explain how it works. Easy is actually the hardest mode you can play at because the AI will do crazy stuff and dice permitting it will steamroll you. It's quite funny actually, if you can appreciate the humor of it all. Basically, it doesn't care about turn-overs and even a broken clock is right two times a day.
Hard is actually easier because the AI favors save dicerolls at that level, and the upside is that it doesn't stall a scoring drive.

I was actually wondering if maybe they did some big joke and put the Easy mode as the actual hard mode and the Hard mode is the easy mode while Medium is just normal. I might test this out and try a match on hard mode.

I know that the modes don't effect the dice rolls, but the way the AI react. It's just when you get 10 bad rolls out of a hundred and they all fall close to each other it seems like very roll is bad, even though you other 90 where good rolls. Like I stated before the game is good at steam rolling you into a bad game or feel like it's a bad game.

[bukkie661]

Originally posted by Sir Texas Sir:

Originally posted by Bogor Represent!:

To explain how it works. Easy is actually the hardest mode you can play at because the AI will do crazy stuff and dice permitting it will steamroll you. It's quite funny actually, if you can appreciate the humor of it all. Basically, it doesn't care about turn-overs and even a broken clock is right two times a day.
Hard is actually easier because the AI favors save dicerolls at that level, and the upside is that it doesn't stall a scoring drive.

I was actually wondering if maybe they did some big joke and put the Easy mode as the actual hard mode and the Hard mode is the easy mode while Medium is just normal. I might test this out and try a match on hard mode.

I know that the modes don't effect the dice rolls, but the way the AI react. It's just when you get 10 bad rolls out of a hundred and they all fall close to each other it seems like very roll is bad, even though you other 90 where good rolls. Like I stated before the game is good at steam rolling you into a bad game or feel like it's a bad game.

Medium always swings to easy, so for of the games that you play on medium, it might as well be on Easy. Just go to Hard and never look back. If anything, it gives you good training for breaking defence against a player who doesn't care if you run down the clock with every decision.

Dicerolls in a video-game are made in a vacuum. (No shaking hands and a wobbly table, for instance.) Other than that, most successful dicerolls are made at times where one doesn't necessarily care about what the outcome actually is. This is amplified by the two-dice pawn-support system. It makes one blind to the fact that one die was favorable as the die that wasn't favorable of the two, is the one that you remember. It gets even more obvious when your game hinges on it.

I'm a huge advocate of teaching new players how to read the dice in live-games. It's the most important skill if you ask me.

[Dode]

Originally posted by Sir Texas Sir:

So your saying Easy mode is prob more like Hard mode cause it does stupid stuff? I been playing on Easy and it's the fact I had one match where I got constant 1-2's on all my rolls why the AI never got a roll below a 4 for the most part.

No, it just tries more, and sometimes gets away with it, on Easy. On Hard it doesn't even try most of the time. The rolls are a different matter: it's just luck. It can seem like it is shafting you, but that's often mostly confirmation buas.

Oh and love how the guys that say, "I'm not elite but above average" All ways have private accounts. Watch it you have hundred of hours in game. I never played BB1, but did play Dungeon bowl back in the 90's on TT so I know the core basics of the game. I have never been able to get a team past 10 games cause of loosing players and the win pay out hardly pays you crap. Specially if you win a League there is no extra pay outs. Can't afford to replace injured or lost players so you have to just go make a new team and start over. I get the game is suppose to be harsh, but it's like a bad train wreck if you start to loose matches and players it's very hard to make it back up when all your opponents have full teams with extra players and constantly get inducements each match.

I do have a good few hundred hours in the game, but that does not make me elite by any stretch. I am a competent, above average, coach and nothing more. The "core basics" are not enough to be able to play the game well.

Would love some proper source to learn why my lower TV's teams keep getting matched up by larger teams with suppose lower TV's but more re-rolls and team mates and players higher levels than majority of my team mates.

If this is in Endless League then there is a bug. If not then it's to do with TV efficiency.

I refuse to play multi player cause I have never gotten another starting team when I had a new team. Almost every multi player OPEN league I tried my little newbie team gets matched up with some team that been around and they just curb stomp me into the ground and cause me to loose most my players. Only one guy took it easy and didn't do anything shady and helped me with some moves and stuff. Though haven't seen him in in ages. The players in game are not very new player friendly.

Your experience seems to have been a poor one, but give it a go. If nothing else try a private league: I find it by far the best way to play, and many have their own matchmaking leagues.

[Anapoda]

Originally posted by Tyr:

Don't listen to the elitists here, its fun and you don't always have to play multiplayer. Eternal league is a lot of fun, it reminds me of the old career mode in BB1

Very true, the game is very enjoyable in solo.

[archonsod]

I only play single player, and it's pretty good (though the caveat there being I largely use it as a substitute for TT when my regular opponents aren't available. I mean who doesn't want to play a match at 3AM?)

Originally posted by Sir Texas Sir:

I was actually wondering if maybe they did some big joke and put the Easy mode as the actual hard mode and the Hard mode is the easy mode while Medium is just normal. I might test this out and try a match on hard mode.

. Some teams work better with riskier play while others work better played conservatively. Since changing the difficulty primarily changes how willing the AI is to take risks, whatever setting you choose means some teams will become easier and some will become harder.

[ajmurphy1986]

I'm be no means an "elite" player either. My record is pretty much even between wins and losses. This game is extremly complex, and most people dont like being told they are bad at something! I realised I was bad early on, and went and watched videos and read up on tactics at www.bbtactics.com after that I became competitive online, and the AI was a joke. I try and be helpful to new players online, but it's a 50/50 split between those who appreciate it, and those who get offended.

Another problem with the AI being so bad is that it teaches new players bad habits. 9/10 what works against the AI will not work against a player who knows what he's doing.

[Bony]

It's fun (on hard), with Underworld I lost the first game against woodelves 1:2 but there is a rematch, so I have a chance if I'm not outnumbered again. The prize is 20 Cyans, so I'm motivated. Not every competition has cyans as prize, you can in theory choose between three different competitions each quarter, but to compete in some you must meet some special requirements like building a stadium Level 3 or such.

I fact it's just some tournaments after another, but with some extras. There are no cutscenes or such things, maybe if you win the Blood Bowl , but I doubt it. But with that many teams (and it's blood bowl, so you already never know what will happen) it's fun. It's better than the Old World League, even if I would like to have the option to reduce the time limit to 2 min instead of 3. But maybe later there is a tournament with different rules.
Eternal League is nothing really special but it's... fun.

[bukkie661]

Originally posted by ajmurphy1986:

I'm be no means an "elite" player either. My record is pretty much even between wins and losses. This game is extremly complex, and most people dont like being told they are bad at something! I realised I was bad early on, and went and watched videos and read up on tactics at www.bbtactics.com after that I became competitive online, and the AI was a joke. I try and be helpful to new players online, but it's a 50/50 split between those who appreciate it, and those who get offended.

Another problem with the AI being so bad is that it teaches new players bad habits. 9/10 what works against the AI will not work against a player who knows what he's doing.

You mean, stalling when you have the ball? Because that's the only tactic that I see used when I spectate matches. I bet you that if I go online right now and select any live match, I'll be dumped in match where two players are stomping eachother without either playing the ball.
'...a player that knows what he's doing.'
LOL
LOL
LOOOOOOOOOOL

[licker34]

Originally posted by Bogor Represent!:

You mean, stalling when you have the ball? Because that's the only tactic that I see used when I spectate matches. I bet you that if I go online right now and select any live match, I'll be dumped in match where two players are stomping eachother without either playing the ball.
'...a player that knows what he's doing.'
LOL
LOL
LOOOOOOOOOOL

The 'only' tactic? What exactly are you looking for then because there is much more to a game than just 'the stall'.

But maybe you only spectate high TV COL matches, who knows.