Blood Bowl 2
How do i defeat lizardmen?
My firends play lizardmen and they feel impossible to defeat. They do everything and they do it all well, i just cant find a weakness, but surely they must have one. How do you defeat lizardmen? I have played many teams, dwarfs, orks, norse and humans. Right now i play humans cause were buying the BB TT starter box and i want to learn humans.
< >
Сообщения 1630 из 42
Just saying. One bad marked saurus and you may get ♥♥♥♥♥♥, cause they can cross at least half the field and still get you.
Other advice has been solid but reiterating, since i'm primarily a lizardman player...

Your motto when playing lizardmen should be "Always blitz a skink"

You should hit a skink every turn, on a knockdown you have a 42% chance of armor break, with stunty they have a 58% chance of out (KO or injury), that's a 14% chance of taking out a skink every turn with blitz alone, not counting frenzy, tackle, if the player fails dodges, or leaves skinks marked, etc. With only 4 skinks on the field that should have all 4 skinks out by turn 16, and gets progressively easier to win with each one out.

Tie up their Saurus. They only have 6, and with AG 1, they are stuck with whatever you have them tied up with, preferably a lineman. Leaving your blitzers to hit a skink every turn, and your other players to rule the field.

More tackle zones is better than overlapping due to stunty. On defense, the normal strategy against dodge teams is lines of 2 players so a blitz still leaves that zone covered. Leaving a space or two instead of back to back creates more tackle zones the skinks need to dodge through.
Lizardmen are not OP at low tv. No block and ag 1 is easy to tie up.
Автор сообщения: Kanelbullen
Автор сообщения: Emoge
lines of 2 players

Are these lines vertical or horizontal? Also, does this tactic work against cages?

vertical, and yes
Автор сообщения: Kanelbullen
Автор сообщения: Emoge
lines of 2 players

Are these lines vertical or horizontal? Also, does this tactic work against cages?


Something like this.

- - - - o - o - - - -
- - - - o o o - - - -
- - - - o - o - - - -
--------------------------
- - x - - x - - x - - x - -
- - x - - x - - x - - x - -

Even if they use the blitz to get one of the front guys they still have to get through 3 tackle zones.
With Block, Tackle and MB on a Blitzer or two, you'll wear down their skinks quickly enough, and try to force them (skinks) to dodge out as much as possible, especially against players with Tackle, if you can.

They either have to take a roughly 11% chance every time to double fail a dodge, which creates a great opportunity for you, or they leave the skinks there and you get to bash them down.

AV 8 is not perfect for marking the Sauri, but if you do it right, they either can't move their cage or have to send the Skinks out on their own, which is how they lose.
Отредактировано Kernest; 4 мар. 2017 г. в 1:59
Автор сообщения: Kanelbullen
I have come to the decision that lizardmen are overpowered. Period. Nothing, NOTHING works against them. They are just better at everything. they have NO weakness in their team once they get block. Its ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ ridiculous. My friend has won almost every single match with them and im beginnign to be a little salty. Tried many teams, ntohing works. Its like banging my head against a wall.

Many have come to the same conclusion before you and they all got told the same thing: get better at the game. Don't take this the wrong way, Lizardmen are strong but they have very evident weaknesses, namely AG1 Saurus and stunty Skinks. Mark Saurus with cheap fodder, keep Skinks on the ground. That's it for the "special tactics" to use against them.
Stats show they are a good tier 1 team but there are better in any TV bracket, they are certainly not OP.
Отредактировано Franz; 9 мар. 2017 г. в 2:01
One biggest issue they have is that Skinks don't have G access on normals. That means you can get easy 2D blocks and Strip Ball works wonders if you can break into their cage.

With Wood Elves, Lizardmen are one of the easiest teams to beat for me, as long as they don't get overly lucky with injuries on the couple first turns.
Dismissing more experienced players' advice as "HAHA lol complete ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥" won't win you any sympathy, maybe a "well, cry some more and enjoy losing" response.

I don't assume anything, I merely state that there is no "secret strategy" to beat any team, you play to your strenghts and against their weaknesses, but the outcome is still decided by who has more skill and more luck. Since luck evens out over multiple games seems to me your friend is a better coach than you are. As a final advice, have you tried to play as the lizards yourself? Maybe you'll see how other people deal with you and learn something.
I'm watching your most recent match (you orcs, them lizards). It's hilarious.

Before turn 1: He doesn't have a krox, which is quite important to a lizardman team.

You are defending first and have put all four black orcs on the line of scrimmage. There are two things wrong with this. Firstly you are giving him an extra free block. Why would you even think that's a good idea? Secondly, you typically want to have your least valuable players on the LoS. While it's sometimes worthwhile to put the high strength guys up there, this is most definitely not the case when playing against a team with more ST 4 guys than yours.

Turn 1: He hits a few of your guys, not really planning ahead for assists and makes a one die for some silly reason. Builds a laughable 'cage' of skinks that actually leavve the ball carrier open to a blitz.

The very first thing you do is make two unneccessary GFIs (dumb). Then blitz the skink with a different player. You base a few saurus, but in a manner that makes it easy for them to get two dies on you then make a one die block and burn a reroll on it.

Turn 2: He plays it smart and goes for a few two die blocks. He doesn't base your players or make a decent screen, but he does at least seem to understand how assists work and prioritises your guys who can reach the ball. Ends the turn in a reasonablke cage/screen combo.

You move a few players back seemingly at random (they don't create a screen) then blitz the skink closest to their endzone (making them temporarily the least valuable skink). Despite being able to place your blitzer next to other skinks (thus forcing a dodge or slowing them down with blocking next turn) you neglect to do so. You then proceed to base a few of their players, but always with overlap so it remains quite easy for them to get free.

By this point your team is fairly split up while theirs is clustered together.

Turn 3: They start off with two die blocks as per usual, then make sure the ball carrier is protected before going for a blitz. I'd personally be trying to move up field at this point, but their actions aren't without reason. You've lost two players to KOs already and as you keep on providing them with free blocks the odds of taking out even more of your players are decent. He probably just wants to whittle you down a bit more so the second half is easier.

By this point you have basically lost this half, short of a miracle. Your guys are in terrible positions and you don't seem to have any plan to rectify that. The 'correct' choice here IMO is to basically ignore the ball. Do as much damage to the skinks as possible and pin your hopes on the second half. It's possible for you to blitz a +MA skink then get a second two die block on another.

You immediately base his guys, AGAIN in a way that allows him multiple blocks against each and easy ways to free his players up. You decide you use your blitz to go for a one die block on a saurus for some unknowable reason. You burn a reroll on this one too, then make a one die block on a skink.

Turn 4: He makes his two die blocks, first to clear a path for the ball cariier and then to free him up. Makes a break for it with his ball carrier skink, leaving it out of range of all your players but one who is on the ground and marked. He makes a couple of unneeded GFIs while doing so and burns a reroll on one. It's not the optimal play, but not a terrible one either.

You move a few guys seemingly randomly then stand up the only player who has a chance of preventing the touchdown. For the record, he had a 41% chance of making the dodge AND knocking down the ball carrier, and an 86% chance of making the dodge and pinning the ball carrier against the sideline, which would have meant they had to make two dodges to get free. You base a couple of guys giving up pointless free blocks, but at least this time your positioning doesn't allow them to break free easily. You dodge out with a blitzer to mark the ball carrier. Why this was better than blitzing it with the other guy I have no idea. You throw a one die block at a skink, injuring it.

Turn 5: He blizes the guy marking his carrier but only gets a push. Marks one of your guys to tie him up then makes the dodge and scores.

You are now on attack. He sets all his saurus up on te LoS. I'm not a fan of doing this, but it is a valid tactic, particularly given that one of your black orcs is still KOd. He puts his skinks in two groups of two, which I really dislike because you can easily blitz one and get a free mark on the other.

You put eight guys on the front line, four of whom are in contact with saurus. I can't see much reasoning behind this setup as it doesn't allow you to get two die blocks, commits more players to the scrum than you need to, and leaves you incredibly vulverable to a perfect defence event.

You mark one group of skinks and move a blitzer down into their side of the pitch. You mark the other group of skinks. You pick up the ball, move your thrower AWAY FROM a lineman, and then pass to him, making a 4+ pass instead of a 3+ pass. Including the catch and pickup you turned a 70% (with a reroll) play into a 59% play. The mind boggles. Anyway, he does catch it. You then make a handoff to a Blitzer and (WTF!!!) you then blitz a skink with him, head on. In such a way that even if you do knock it down you'd still be marked by the skink next to it, wheter you followed up or not. the skink is injured. You then dodge away from the skink successfully and proceed to make a point less GFI (the saurus can still reach you regardless) which fails. You reroll it and than make a second GFI. At this point the saurus need to make a single gfi to reach you. You then throw a couple of one die blocks, resulting in you pushing a saurus one step close to your carrier.

(I gotta say, this is probably the worst played turn I've ever seen that didn't end in a turnover.)

Turn 6: He frees up a saurus and then blitzes your ball carrier. Because of course he does. The odd thing here was not pinning it against the sideline after knocking them down, but w/e. They make a few two die blocks and thhen a crazy saurus dodge right before hitting the guy marking said saurus (dumb!). Marks your players sensibly, fails a dodge with a skink and gets injured.

You start your turn by marking his players poorly again then pick up the ball.. you make a two die block and then a one die block.

Turn 7: He frees up a saurus and then blitzes your carrier, failing and rerolling a gfi on the way. Sidenote: hitting your other Blitzer would have allowed him to avoid making said GFI. He hits your guy on the sideline and stupidly follows up, giving you a surf opportunity. Makes a few blocks and marks your guys more or less sensibly. Ends his turn with a one die block.

You dodge away from a saurus and make two GFI to reach the endzone. You dodge away from a skink, make a gfi, and pick up the ball with a lineman then succeed a 4+ pass and a 3+ catch.

You are now defending. Again you put all black orcs on the LoS, giving your opponent an additional free block.

Turn 8: He gets a quick snap event and stupidly moves one saurus from the LoS to try and catch the ball. He makes a few two die blocks and turns over on an AD/BD result.

You blitz a skink (good man) and make a one die block on a saurus.

Turn 9: He gives you the 'wall of saurus' defence, you set up bizarrely in attack with NINE on the front line and five in contact with saurus. There is no plan to deal with them that I can figure out. You blitz a skink (good man) and mark the other. You randomly charge a blitzer nto their half instead of using him to provide an assist and getting another two die block. You do the same with a second Blitzer. You pick up the ball (burning a reroll). you make a two die block and follow up the push, denying yourself a second two die block. You make a one die block and get BD. The Saurus dies and they concede.

--------------------------------------------------

So to summarise, your opponent played better than you. Subjectively I'd judge them to be below average for a PC players, but not massively so. They made a few silly mistakes and need to work on techniques to start a drive on offence. You played, well, terribly. You made a plethora of rookie mistakes, rolled a ludicrous number of non-block dice and barely hit him. I'd actually be interested in seeing a ones and skulls statsheet for this match because I wouldn't be surprised if you threw more one die blocks than two die blocks. You don't seem to plan ahead much, have little sense of tactical positioning and take far too many risks.

I'm not saying all this just to be nasty (and in your defence, you are pretty damn new to the game), these observations are to prove a point. If Lizardmen are so OP, how did you win this match against a Lizardman coach who is far better at the game than you?
Отредактировано Arlen Tektolnes; 9 мар. 2017 г. в 3:48
See? If people repeat "mark Saurus, blitz Skinks" is because that's a viable tactic, but in order for it to work it needs to be applied on top of a good general game strategy. It's four Gs in a row so you know it's true :)
Lengthy advice including diagrams was here, but screw this guy amirite.

I didn't disrespect you before, I was pointing out you were bad at a game and the specific mistakes you were making. I sure as hell have no respect for you now though. I'm also not sure how I can insult your intelligence when you haven't shown us any yet.
Отредактировано Arlen Tektolnes; 9 мар. 2017 г. в 4:33
Damn, I'm regretting spending ten minutes to type up that last post after seeing your edit.

Gonna edit out the advice now.
...to make you understand rolling a useless GFI is a dumb idea? Frankly everyone here has been surprisingly polite, especially given how arrogant your answers are.
Автор сообщения: Kanelbullen
You know what? Fine. I suck. Im an ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, you did nothing wrong. Goodbye.

So much for "not being butthurt". We spent time giving you advice and all you did was complain. We are not responsible for the tone you decide to read our comments in. Why should he spend ten minutes drawing diagrams just to insult you when he could have just written "lol git gud scrub"?
< >
Сообщения 1630 из 42
Показывать на странице: 1530 50

Дата создания: 3 мар. 2017 г. в 13:34
Сообщений: 42