Dark Elves vs Chaos Dwarves

[Kyle Travis]

Any tips as to how to beat them - I cant get out of tackle zones due to all the anti-dodge stuff and the games played agains they have a minotaur and 2 bull Centaurs which I can't deal with alongside the other stuff.

[skydancer]

Just die. dwarf own elf.

[licker34]

You are faster, and you still dodge on 2+, even if tackle takes away your rerolls.

They have to field some hobbers though, so you can beat on them to just keep the numbers more even.

Also CD with a Mino is a noob build, the Mino sucks, just let him blitz/block to a side then switch the play to the other side and he's bascially useless.

[Done25]

It's a really ugly match up for the elves.

[Kyle Travis]

Played several different teams - they all had a couple of Hobs and Minotaur.

Hobs are in backfield so hard to get to once he has splatted my guys who have to start on skrimich line, then I have to get through the Dwarves.

I am pretty "noob" as well so guess thats part of the problem.....

[licker34]

Well you're doing the right thing and asking for advice :)

You can't out block them, you shouldn't try, you can't mark them up and pray for the best either. You have to play a screen/pillar defense and try to force them to attempt a break away which you can track down and blow up, or a turn 7/8 score that requires them to roll some dodges and maybe gfis.

On offense you should be able to set up a screen and maybe open up a side to push through a second set of elfs to screen to score. Again, CD are not fast, and if they use the hobbers to block off the advance you get to hit them. You should probably just ignore trying to set up blocks on bulls and the mino (sometimes you should, but like everything in BB sometimes you should do anyway). Focus on what you can do, and don't worry about what they can do. If you can dictate the responces to you it gets easier than if you are always responding to your opponent.

[Kernest]

Really ugly match-up for elves indeed.

I'd probably try to crowd-surf as many of them as possible, becomes much easier if/when your Witch Elves have Side-Step to compliment their Jump Up and Frenzy.

Other than that, it always helps to have the ball as deep in their half as possible (Kick), and then just try to slow them down as much as possible. Neither side ought to be scoring quickly or a lot.

One favorite formation for this is deploying your guys in columns of 2 players 2 spaces away from each other, so that every tile in between is covered in a tackle zone, which means the enemy only gets to advance 2 tiles per turn, and you just have to dodge out only about half your players.

[Kyle Travis]

thanks for the tips guys - have been reading up on the column stuff.

[Hairy Coo]

I would disagre about columns - it is ok strategy if they are far from scoring and there are only 2 turns left, but at the start it gives chorfs 8 turns to take their time and grind you.

I'd be agressive on defence - kill their av7 if possible, separate the blockers from the main herd and try to get to the ball. On offence I'd try to stall taking advantage of you being elf and being able to switch sides. Slow teams are not very good at scoring in less then 4 turns if you play it right.

[Kernest]

Columns should work quite well on the defensive, and should force the enemy to make some desperate plays to attempt scoring, such as passing, trying to dodge and so on.

Offensively I don't have any really good advice to give, it really depends on how they deploy, but if you manage to get even a single player with Guard (should be your 1st choice if you roll doubles on Linemen and Blitzers at least), there's usually a weak spot where you can create a hole and pour through using your mostly superior movement.

Postat inițial de Hairy Coo:

I would disagre about columns - it is ok strategy if they are far from scoring and there are only 2 turns left, but at the start it gives chorfs 8 turns to take their time and grind you.

One does not really preclude the other, and obviously you should try to do something with your blitz, but columns is a simple yet efficient mode of defense if you can set it up.

[licker34]

Postat inițial de Hairy Coo:

I would disagre about columns - it is ok strategy if they are far from scoring and there are only 2 turns left, but at the start it gives chorfs 8 turns to take their time and grind you.

I'd be agressive on defence - kill their av7 if possible, separate the blockers from the main herd and try to get to the ball. On offence I'd try to stall taking advantage of you being elf and being able to switch sides. Slow teams are not very good at scoring in less then 4 turns if you play it right.

Colums (I call them pillars) allows them one blitz, and the ability to only mark 4 of your players (usually).

It's hard to find a better 'safer' defense frankly, no matter where they are on the pitch. Evenif they get into scoring range, so long as you get collums in front of them it will be mulitple dodges for them to score.

Marking them up can work if you have spammed blodge, but you cannot mark up dwarfs even with blodge! And that's the matchup here. You can stick a blodger on a bull to take them out of the play, but marking the blockers is just you praying that your armor will hold up, and over time, of course, it won't.

[Hairy Coo]

Well dorfs and chorfs are frustrating to play against with elfs no matter what strategy you are using. I am just speaking from the chorf (or technically any other bash team) side - I like when opponent columns up before me, as I can take my one blitz, hopefully take someone down and foul him if he is still twitching. If I am unlucky with my blitzes, then the defence will work, but how unlucky will i get with tackle clawpomb+foul for 8 turns?

Marking players is surely not ideal either but if done properly it puts a lot of pressure on the opponent to make a run for it. You might not stop the score, but if you force him to score early, this is already not half bad.

[licker34]

Postat inițial de Hairy Coo:

Well dorfs and chorfs are frustrating to play against with elfs no matter what strategy you are using. I am just speaking from the chorf (or technically any other bash team) side - I like when opponent columns up before me, as I can take my one blitz, hopefully take someone down and foul him if he is still twitching. If I am unlucky with my blitzes, then the defence will work, but how unlucky will i get with tackle clawpomb+foul for 8 turns?

Marking players is surely not ideal either but if done properly it puts a lot of pressure on the opponent to make a run for it. You might not stop the score, but if you force him to score early, this is already not half bad.

I don't understand, you can blitz once every turn no matter what defense they are playing.

If they mark you then they are giving up so many more hits against them. Yes sometimes they will get lucky and you won't knock them down, or you'll stupidly block their side step into your cage or whatever.

But the odds being what the odds are, man marking CD with elfs is generally a losing proposition. Now, there is a time and place for it. You should pillar them up to a point, sometimes you just stay in pillars, but sometimes you will have to press them into a breakaway or leaving an easier option at hitting the ball.

It's not do one or the other, it's do one until the cirumstances dictate that you do the other.

But the thing is, you might as well start with the pillars, espeically on a deep kick, becaue until the offense shows that they understand how to advance vs. it you can bide your time.

[Hairy Coo]

I don't disagree with pillalrs in general. As you rightfully mentioned there is a time for everything. Strategy is dictated by the circumstances, very true. I guess a key here is to know when to go balls deep and when to minimise the damage.

[avaririot]

Dark Elves don't have to change their style for nobody. Spread em out, create pockets of 3 on 3's or 4 on 4's, then pounce where you have the better players.