Blood Bowl 2
Skaven Tactics
I'm a little stuck with my skaven team. They win a little more than they lose, but I think they could be better. They are 4 runners, 2 vermin, 2 throwers and a bunch of linerats. No rogre. I get him when I can afford him with the petty cash but I'm not a big fan of him.
Scoring on my drive is not much of a problem most of the time. I had a few games where I was able to score quickly and then slowly break the oppositions formation on their drive, snatch the ball and run away and win 2:0 or 2:1. But I usually don't get much more TDs in a game then 2. I haven't played against other skaven in a while but at least in my early games, I remember almost being overrun by skaven when they had the kickoff. I'm not sure how to approch this tactic, though. Throw everyone near the LOS, run in and hope for the best and if that fails bank on my speed to catch up? Right now I usually fall back a little, try to not give to many blocks away and hit players out of position. But it does not seem to be the best approach most of the time.

Any tips on what to try?
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Сообщения 115 из 17
You don't want 2 throwers. You want to develop your stormvermin (both as killers, 1 mb tackle, the other mb po, claw on doubles for both). You want a sacker (wrestle strip ball leap dauntless tackle). Stats on gutters are great, AG for retrieval, ST for blitzing, MA for oneturning. Also, learn how to oneturn without MA or sprint (some examples here) A linerat gets kick then wrestle, the rest get dirty player then retirement. Doubles are guard, then block. As for gameplay, I'd recommend having a look at these two playlists, because gameplay is a lot tougher to explain than it is to show. =)
Отредактировано the Sage; 27 янв. 2017 г. в 5:52
In case you haven't read this yet:

http://www.plasmoids.dk/bbowl/playbooks/Skaven.pdf

It's a good place to start.
Thanks. I kinda like the two thrower lineup to make relatively save fast play across the whole pitch. But i get the point.
A big problem was, that only one of my linerats so far got a level up. I gave him wrestle, which was very usefull so far, but could never get a kick rat which really came around to bite me in the ass a few times.
I get how a single thrower helps with the fast plays, I run one myself.

But you can only pass once a turn, and a 3+ pass with a build in reroll is only ~5% more likely than a 2+ pass without any RR. And, well, this is what GRs excel at.

You say that you don't generally get more than two TDs a match like it's a problem. IMO the perfect Skaven match ends 1-0 with you scoring on turn 8 or 16. Instead of worrying about scoring more, decrease their chances of scoring.

On offence, hide the ball deep in your end of the pitch (preferably in the hands of a thrower), but them into moving towards you while working on setting up your GRs to bypass them in one turn and fouling any particularly good players off the pitch. Then a short pass and handoff should see you in a position to stall for a good few turns.

On defence, don't worry so much about getting the ball. Screen as well as you can and make them take risks. If they ♥♥♥♥ up then you go for the ball. Try to always have a free GR as a scoring threat.
Автор сообщения: Arlen Tektolnes
IMO the perfect Skaven match ends 1-0 with you scoring on turn 8 or 16.
IMO, a perfect skaven match ends with 4-0 or greater...

Perfect is not always interesting
Отредактировано DarthPhysicist; 27 янв. 2017 г. в 8:07
Lots of ways to play skaven successfully frankly. I prefer getting the ball in the hads of a gutter 'safely', usually means a hand off from the thrower who recovered the ball, or do the pass if the position is totally safe to deal with a fumble. This is far enough up that I can create an opening on a subsequent turn and advance the ball into scoring range, ideally with a big enough screen that the opponent can't cut me off and box me into the side.

Even if they can, you should try to leave an extra gutter towards the center behind your line so that if you have to retreat you can hand off to him and have him run to (hopefully) freedom on the other side if the opponent overcommited to stop your attack.

If your opponent stays balanced you should have enough numbers to push the ball deeper and set up a screen behind the ball to go for the goal line stall. Of course everytihng always depends on match up and what skills your opponent has, so if you are facing leaping wracklers you might decide to just score at the first opportunity and play defense.

Because Skaven can play defense well enough to not necessarilly stop the TD (though they can do this), but to pressure the drive so that you get 2+ turns to score again! That requires specific builds like Sage mentioned, and requires you to not have gotten based to hell so that you have some numbers left, but meh, that's just the reality of skaven anyway.

Of course if you have a natural one turner (+MA and Sprint) you can play the game entirely differently, and hope to win on your T16 with a one turn, just keeping the game tied up until that point (assuming you received in the 1st half anyway). But that's a different discussion.
It's mainly about tactics when you have to kick. I finally got a level up on a linerat and gave him kick, will see how that works out. In the pdf linked earlier, there were some interessting starting formations which I will give a try.
Also interesting was the idea, to always kick first when you get the chance. I was always trying to get the first score, but then that puts a lot of pressure on the skaven for the rest of the game. Will have to try around here a bit more.
Отредактировано awekawek; 27 янв. 2017 г. в 8:55
The Sage's team build advice is solid and well known. Darth's link is what I used to learn Skaven it gives the same team build advice and lots more beside.

My advice is to treat skaven like they are 7 scalpels and not a team of hammers. Going to blitz get in make your cuts and get out, need to setup a ball steal use your gr scalpel with wrestle strip ball, don't try to grind into the cage. Rats are at their best when you bide your time, set up a strike and then put all your effort behind that lightening strike, do it right and the other team won't see it coming and won't be able to react. Try to set it up so blitz, ball steal pass to a retriever and hand off to a gr upfield to score is all done in one turn. Your opponent can't punish you for your cheekiness if you sprung your trap and cut his head off in one turn can he?
Sage's team build and gameplay style is the best I've ever seen, he is a good reference. Alas not everyone played over9000 bb games so you might not do so well:)

Generally though you want to minimise casulties and be violent with clawpomb and fouls like a bash team and at the same time play side switchero and leaping ball sack like elves. Imho main trick is to know when you can stall and when you'd better score and defend. Skaven are op when their armor holds. When it does not though you'd better be leading 2-0. 14 man bench helps alot. Dont take RO if you dont like him from the start - later on he gets even less usefull. Personally I would never take him allthough there are some respectable coaches who prefer to start with one and fire him in mid tv
Everytime I tried adding a RO as my 12/13th the team always tanked immediately, without fail. I have a clean record of like 6-0-0 and then I added the RO and BLAMMO id lose 4 games straight. It is probably the TV bump and the addition of a player that really doesn't fit with my play style (the ball seeking punching bags playstyle).

I see some players doing well with a RO, but now I just steer clear and accept my lot and adhere to the three D's of Dodgeball.
Автор сообщения: kallisti.maya
Everytime I tried adding a RO as my 12/13th the team always tanked immediately, without fail. I have a clean record of like 6-0-0 and then I added the RO and BLAMMO id lose 4 games straight. It is probably the TV bump and the addition of a player that really doesn't fit with my play style (the ball seeking punching bags playstyle).

I see some players doing well with a RO, but now I just steer clear and accept my lot and adhere to the three D's of Dodgeball.


Wild Animals per se have a steeper learning curve than other Big Guys. You have to blitz them and you have to be smart about when to chance it. However the Skaven defense is MUCH better with the Rat Ogre in the clogging middle linebacker role IMHO. Gives the GR's 2-3 extra turns to work their magic clean of bodies.
Автор сообщения: kallisti.maya
Everytime I tried adding a RO as my 12/13th the team always tanked immediately, without fail. I have a clean record of like 6-0-0 and then I added the RO and BLAMMO id lose 4 games straight. It is probably the TV bump and the addition of a player that really doesn't fit with my play style (the ball seeking punching bags playstyle).

I see some players doing well with a RO, but now I just steer clear and accept my lot and adhere to the three D's of Dodgeball.

I am totally in your camp. IMO skaven really care about TV and numbers. You want to be trim but you want 14 man bench. RO bloats up your tv here and traps you into using him - otherwise you have 150k standing there looking cute. And when you use him, he goes all wild on your behind and wastes an action. Skaven can't afford that.
Отредактировано Hairy Coo; 30 янв. 2017 г. в 11:14
Автор сообщения: Hairy Coo
Автор сообщения: kallisti.maya
Everytime I tried adding a RO as my 12/13th the team always tanked immediately, without fail. I have a clean record of like 6-0-0 and then I added the RO and BLAMMO id lose 4 games straight. It is probably the TV bump and the addition of a player that really doesn't fit with my play style (the ball seeking punching bags playstyle).

I see some players doing well with a RO, but now I just steer clear and accept my lot and adhere to the three D's of Dodgeball.

I am totally in your camp. IMO skaven really care about TV and numbers. You want to be trim but you want 14 man bench. RO bloats up your tv here and traps you into using him - otherwise you have 150k standing there looking cute. And when you use him, he goes all wild on your behind and wastes an action. Skaven can't afford that.




Pretty much exactly what I said about Norse goes true again for Skaven. Give me the RO and a 13 man roster. I also cut Tv by taking no thrower and only 3 GR's.



Our disagreemenet lies in where we like to take our risks. I'll take the Big Guy, you'll take the ejections from fouling. I am a very conservative fouler.
Отредактировано avaririot; 30 янв. 2017 г. в 11:19
Автор сообщения: avaririot
Автор сообщения: Hairy Coo

I am totally in your camp. IMO skaven really care about TV and numbers. You want to be trim but you want 14 man bench. RO bloats up your tv here and traps you into using him - otherwise you have 150k standing there looking cute. And when you use him, he goes all wild on your behind and wastes an action. Skaven can't afford that.




Pretty much exactly what I said about Norse goes true again for Skaven. Give me the RO and a 13 man roster. I also cut Tv by taking no thrower and only 3 GR's.



Our disagreemenet lies in where we like to take our risks. I'll take the Big Guy, you'll take the ejections from fouling. I am a very conservative fouler.

Fair enough. In the end it is whatever works best for you, I believe.
Отредактировано Hairy Coo; 30 янв. 2017 г. в 11:37
Currently I am playing Skaven and the key to operating on defense is to punch a hole for your runners to get through then have them swarm the ball quickly.

Offence is fairly straightforward. I have 2 Skaven who can cover 12 squares (1 is Move 10, the other has Sprint so far) and they just run through the opposition, taking the risk they might get taken down.

Defense I line up with my Rat Ogre, 2 Blitzers and 2 Linemen on the middle section. I then have my 2 Throwers (both have block) just behind. Then a row of 4 Runners spread out behind them.
If you notice, I don't line up anyone in the wide zones on D because with Skaven, it's just not needed. You will find the speed of lining up in the center allows you to pick where to kick and move everyone over there quickly, while if they pass around you then your speed will instantly get you back into position to deal with it.

I run 2 Throwers because Block is all you need to turn Throwers from an Offensive weapon to a Defensive recovery specialist (Block and Sure Hands are very good to get the ball out to a runner quickly). I would never use just 1 Thrower because of how important picking the ball up is and how the only skill a Runner needs to accomplish this is the mutation big hands)

Basically with Skaven you have to take Dodge risks both offensively and defensively to get control of the ball, because you cannot afford to get into the "solid tactic" of the cage, you'll lose every time you do. Throwers with Block (and Strip Ball) are awesome because offensively they get all the skills they need to be great so turning them into recovery specialists lets you use them in a different manner on defense (when you don't need anyone at the back).

Also I believe Skaven absolutely can afford to waste actions because you'll generally only use 2 or 3 players a turn doing something useful to get the ball to a Runner to get it into the end zone. You're a 100m sprinter not a Marathon runner - the longer each play takes, the fewer rats you'll have on the pitch!
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Дата создания: 27 янв. 2017 г. в 5:31
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