Capture missions and the AI

[Ballistic Broom]

Dear developers,

I am quite enjoying your game up to this point but there is one major annoyance which really should be looked at, ofcourse, in my opinion.
Once you are trying to capture an enemy ship in a Capture Freelance job and i have wiped out the crew it takes a few ticks to take control over the ship itself. In the meantime the friendly AI in the neighbourhood keeps shooting and shooting at it untill it is finally destroyed and the mission fails. Please make it so that either AI stops shooting while attempting to capture OR when wiping out the crew of the ship. That way i can actually finish a capture mission.

[probe]

I think it was made that way to make capturing ships more difficult. Capturing ships is fun but was a bit too easy. Boosting cap stats and going for an early capture (before the enemy's hull is almost gone) is quite the challenge and something I like.

I can understand it can be frustrating ofcourse but making all quests easy is not the way to go IMO. Just my two cents and I respect that you don't like it. Maybe a skilled modder can take a look at that AI behaviour in such situations at some point.

[Zenoslaf]

I found it pretty easy to capture since I do my capturing two ways.

1. IF the ship I'm capturing is under attack from friendly AI, I don't attack it but board them as fast as I can. Usually I manage to do this faster then AI can destroy it.

2. IF I'm capturing a ship that further away, there is often no friendly AI around so I just damage the ship and then board it.

Worked for me so far. Of course it won't work every time, but it was not intended to. Capturing ships is the best money maker in the game, it's already as easy as it can get.

Actually, back when I started playing, I was not part of LGM team. And as a player I loved the mechanic where you can't tow the captured ship faster than 1/2 speed. Despite my protests, many people asked to be able to tow in PTE. And it was implemented. Then there were people that didn't like AI attacking them, like you said. There are people that are not happy about the fact that sometimes grapple breaks (as intended). And there were even people that wanted to have the ability to put someone from their crew as NPC AI to captured ship and send him back to the nearest station. I think those things would break the game, make it too easy and unchallenging and thus the game would get boring soon. But I also respect community opinions and wishes. Some things were already implemented, some will come in next updates.

Until then, try to capture ships that are not beside the station, but not far into deep space either. That way you won't have AI attacking it and you also won't have to tow long distances.

[bloodprince361]

idk if this is a bug or exploit but if u click the ''send troops'' icon uber fast and it sends the troop wave and wat results (least for me) is a insta KO of all enemy troops. boarding critical somthin or other... my frigate 45 troops boards enemy frigate 45 troops for insta KO of all troops with lik 38 of my guys remaining.

i once had this wierd thing happen to me. i find a lone Luna flying around and im lik ''easy $$$" i launch my grappler and get ''grappler error' and Luna gets osok'd by my grappler. i didnt shoot it or anything! my GRAPPLER killed it XD

[Ballistic Broom]

Originally posted by zzokalj - SPG2 Vice Admiral:

I found it pretty easy to capture since I do my capturing two ways.

1. IF the ship I'm capturing is under attack from friendly AI, I don't attack it but board them as fast as I can. Usually I manage to do this faster then AI can destroy it.

2. IF I'm capturing a ship that further away, there is often no friendly AI around so I just damage the ship and then board it.

Worked for me so far. Of course it won't work every time, but it was not intended to. Capturing ships is the best money maker in the game, it's already as easy as it can get.

Actually, back when I started playing, I was not part of LGM team. And as a player I loved the mechanic where you can't tow the captured ship faster than 1/2 speed. Despite my protests, many people asked to be able to tow in PTE. And it was implemented. Then there were people that didn't like AI attacking them, like you said. There are people that are not happy about the fact that sometimes grapple breaks (as intended). And there were even people that wanted to have the ability to put someone from their crew as NPC AI to captured ship and send him back to the nearest station. I think those things would break the game, make it too easy and unchallenging and thus the game would get boring soon. But I also respect community opinions and wishes. Some things were already implemented, some will come in next updates.

Until then, try to capture ships that are not beside the station, but not far into deep space either. That way you won't have AI attacking it and you also won't have to tow long distances.

I did not realize yet it was the best way to make money in the game, with that in mind it sounds more logical indeed to have it fail more often than not. I thought damaging the ship somewhat helped in troop survival as i read it somewhere but it does not seem to make a huge difference.

p.s. nice to see a dedicated player or modder being aquired by a company again :)

[Zenoslaf]

Capturing a ship can get you about 100k+ per ship on low level, while missions give you much, much less. Trading and Mining too. But the idea was that capturing is something that has to be planned out, and that can always go wrong. Just as breaking in someone's house. Maybe you'll get the loot, maybe you'll find resistance and get killed. :)

To raise your boarding efficiency make sure you:

1. Hire an officer that increases trooper strenght (think one was on Vigo Station)
2. Buy enhancement for transporter that increases transporter capacity

[FuNb0Y86]

Dude. At lv1 just now, I encountered a capture mission where one random ally AI killed the capture target so fast I could not even open my radial menu. Please stop defending the balance on this, and fix the situation!

I mean, aren't these supposed to at least be attemptable?

[probe]

The way I see this is that 90+% of all missions I take on are easily completed. I need some that are just screwed or very hard or impossible to finish. The nature of games is "try this and succeed". There's no failing an if there is the game is probably broken.

I like how this game challenges the concept of that. Making failing from time to time a part of the game. Would you feel better about it if you had begun boarding the ship and then it got blown up with your troopers onboard?

I know not everybody likes to fail missions and seeing the ship you're almost finished boarding being blown to bits can be a pain in the "rear-end" But that's fun IMO and getting trolled by friendlies like that is actually something that I enjoy.

Just my two cents.... But as I stated if everything works out as planned this game would be fun for 10 hours and then it'd just feel boring.

[Karlito]

Hey guys, we're working on this for the next patch.
At the moment i believe we'll make this variable to the set game difficulty.
For example, at normal difficulty and lower, ally/neutral ships will ignore ships you're trying to board, but at higher difficulties they'll keep attacking them to accommodate more experienced players who are used to the old system and prefer a challenge.

We'll give this some further thought before we release this update

[Ballistic Broom]

Originally posted by Karlito:

Hey guys, we're working on this for the next patch.
At the moment i believe we'll make this variable to the set game difficulty.
For example, at normal difficulty and lower, ally/neutral ships will ignore ships you're trying to board, but at higher difficulties they'll keep attacking them to accommodate more experienced players who are used to the old system and prefer a challenge.

We'll give this some further thought before we release this update

good news :) keep it up!!!

[spACES HIGH]

Originally posted by zzokalj - SPG2 Vice Admiral:

Capturing a ship can get you about 100k+ per ship on low level, while missions give you much, much less. Trading and Mining too. But the idea was that capturing is something that has to be planned out, and that can always go wrong. Just as breaking in someone's house. Maybe you'll get the loot, maybe you'll find resistance and get killed. :)

To raise your boarding efficiency make sure you:

1. Hire an officer that increases trooper strenght (think one was on Vigo Station)
2. Buy enhancement for transporter that increases transporter capacity

Following the guide on capturing ships early I got the Taurus gunship, the two officers and the Loctus2 (?) transporter enchancement. All I managed to do was to capture two gunships. After level 5, I also put the trooper 5% perk - only to regret it later on - but still can't get anything else than gunships. A corvete with 28 troopers would - and should be - possible to capture after spendind all these upgrades in capturing, but it is not. That's why I avoid capture missions dear Bakflets...

Troopers don't get killed if you bring the full down to 10 - 20 % as they should. They remain at full strength! I mean, destroying the hull SHOULD, logically, kill the troopers/crew behind the damaged part of the hull. It's not happening! Allied and neutral ships continue to attack even AFTER you start boarding, destroying the vessel thus making the capture impossible...

I really don't know how you do it. Before the patch, capturing was too easy, yes. But after the patch (Ver. 1.2002 I think I have), I've reached Level 10 and I'm stuck with the Taurus gunship, facing cruisers and battleships. Not to mention the Level 70 guy hunting me all over the galaxy... Maybe I should try harder, I don't know, but it's making the game very dificult for me, even at normal difficulty. I agree with Karlito, boarding difficulty should be according to game difficulty...

I believe, damaged ships should have a top speed according to damage taken, not having PTE speed with only 5-10% hull (90-95 % damage taken) as it currently is. It's unrealistic, even for a game. The same should be with trooper/crew strengtt; a 90% damaged ship should have caused a 80 - 90 % crew/troopers losses...

I agree with you on towwing speed, it should be lower. It should be according to vessel size. A big ship can easyly tow a small one at a high speed (PTE), while a gunship should not be able to tow a battleship at PTE...

[Zenoslaf]

The thing is, after the mentioned patch, enemies started to use everything they have at their disposal like items, better tactics, fighters, so they are more challenging and more "smart". I still don't have problems with capturing, but it's harder, I agree. Troopers don't die when you damage the ship, but their morale falls and they are less efficient. Compare this to your troopers that are boosted with officer buff and transporter buff and you have a bunch of marines slaughtering herd of sheep. :D At least in my experience.

Also, as Karlito said, we will try to tweak this based on game difficulty.

I agree with your ideas about slow PTE with damaged hull. I cannot promise we will be able to change that fast, but the idea is valid. Thinking about it, in Elite: Dangerous, when I bring someone down to 1% hull, they just boost away and jump into hyperspace. So if you think our PTE on 10% is problematic, what do you think of 1% hull ships jumping to hyperspace. :) We're still better. :D

[spACES HIGH]

Originally posted by zzokalj - SPG2 Vice Admiral:

The thing is, after the mentioned patch, enemies started to use everything they have at their disposal like items, better tactics, fighters, so they are more challenging and more "smart". I still don't have problems with capturing, but it's harder, I agree. Troopers don't die when you damage the ship, but their morale falls and they are less efficient. Compare this to your troopers that are boosted with officer buff and transporter buff and you have a bunch of marines slaughtering herd of sheep. :D At least in my experience.

Also, as Karlito said, we will try to tweak this based on game difficulty.

I agree with your ideas about slow PTE with damaged hull. I cannot promise we will be able to change that fast, but the idea is valid. Thinking about it, in Elite: Dangerous, when I bring someone down to 1% hull, they just boost away and jump into hyperspace. So if you think our PTE on 10% is problematic, what do you think of 1% hull ships jumping to hyperspace. :) We're still better. :D

I know you are better, that's why I play SPG2 and not Elite Dangerous, despite the fact that the fisrt Space Sim I ever played was Elite back in the GLORIOUS days of the ZX Spectrum, with its "mighty" 48K :)

I've noticed the change in enemy AI and strategy. Btw, I kinda like the way they run back to their base/territory when they get get too low on hull... Also the fact the come in pairs, that they have a wingman and everything...

I will tell you what I honestly think. Since you mentioned Elite, I can mention the X Series, where you may had enen 5% of hull flying at speeds like 1km per year (!) but if you had energy cells you could jump into other sectors in an instance... The speed remained extremely low but a space jump was possible providing you had those cells of course... And, it MADE SENSE to do that.

In short, my point is, say for the corvete I'm trying to capture, it has 28 troopers before the dogfight, and they have 28 after the dogfight (!!!), when their hull is down to 10%. No damage what so ever to them, neither EMP or Radiation effect seems to work. This, does not makes sense to me :(

I understand they are weaker and my troopers "buffed" , but still, there seems to be no time left to capture the damn thing, since the 10% of hull is no match for the allied/neutral ships; they destroy the corvete even if you start the boarding at 1/3 of their ship's hull ! ! I'm STUCK in this Taurus gunship. I seem to be anyway...

I'm sure you know what I mean, and I'm glad you agree with my suggestions for the game. So, with that in mind, yes, thumbs up, keep up the good work guys...

[Zenoslaf]

Yeah, we will solve some of those problems. My first gaming days were also on ZX Spectrum and on Elite. Back in 1986.

I play new Elite, and I kinda like it. Sentimental value, you can say. :) X way sounds more real, I agree. Well, we're working on it all the time so we will continue to improve the game, based on both our ideas and community suggestions, just as we did so far. :)

[bloodprince361]

u capture on 10% hull? i capture on 100% with 80% success rate!!! how u fail is beyond me... there is a massive gas field where lots of Lyras and Adharas camp. ignore the Lunas and capture a Adhara as its easily the best corvette in the game but a lil tug like the Taurus is slow as hell. took me over half a hour towing it back to base at 70% power!

i just captured a hella lot of Lyras and farmed som 2 mil to buy officers and mods. loaded my Taurus out with the best beams i could buy and lvl farmed the Lyras to hell till i found a lone Adhara and captured it. my Pegasus can capture other Pegasuses at 100% with som 20+ troopers still alive. iv recently transfered my crew to this l33t lil cruiser. has less cargo but comes with 80 troopers. i just fly around with a captured freighter which i use to carry my cargo XD

[Zenoslaf]

Originally posted by bloodprince361:

Took me over half a hour towing it back to base at 70% power!

No pain, no gain. :D