Any update on the Denuvo virus removal?

[Acecool]

I want to buy and play this game, but I won't as long as the Denuvo virus comes pre-packed with it. Any update as to when it will be removed?

[SIMΩMEGA]

Originally posted by sharkosaurus:

i thought this discussion died lol

it is but im a resident necroposter, cant really do much abt it lmao

[SIMΩMEGA]

Originally posted by Xengre:

Originally posted by lukaself:

The codefusion errors are all related to Denuvo. The three codefusion servers are hosted by AWS in a server farm located in Ireland and are all owned by Reinhard Blaukovitsch himself, Denuvo's CEO.



No Denuvo, No codefusion errors. quod erat demonstrandum

Incorrect information.

Denuvo errors can occur due to how it is implemented even when Denuvo was NOT the cause. A solid proof example is the Capcom Monster Hunter crashes almost always throw Denuvo errors and are confirmed by both Capcom and numerous fans to have totally unrelated to Denuvo fixes (typically on the user's end). Another example is Dying Light 2.

These kind of errors are almost always fixed by verify integrity of files, turning off a proxy, reinstalling the game, often even just restarting your PC, or a combination of prior, installing necessary Codec packs such as triggering on the launch of the game as it tries to play opening cutscene, using Reshade is a known cause in some rare instances, proton issues (was fixed last I heard, was on Proton's end due to some file management issue and fixed in later Proton versions... was originally causing a 5 day launch limit max without hardware/version configuration changes), and several others including patch updates for bugs that could result in a game crash that had nothing to do with Denuvo such as Monster Hunter franchise was notorious for instability/crashing.

Originally posted by zero.calvin:

piracy has never been a problem for video game, i mean, one of the most pirated franchise is pokemon and yet, pokemon is still huge... i dont remember a single franchise that fail due to piracy.

Multiple AAA develoers for over a decade have reported analyzing their games struggling with piracy rates exceeding 90% (often in the realm of 94-96%) such as Crytek, EA Games, CD Projeckt (yup, CEO got caught in a scandal over it hence their later Witcher 3 you can pirate it stance to reduce public outrage), Ubisoft, and many many more. The reason I tossed out specific names here is so you can easily look it up. In fact, piracy and those public complaints from those specific devs is the reason they gave for NOT providing PC releases for most of their titles during the PS3/360 era. it was only after the PS4/One era began when console architectures began to be far more similar to PC making the port process way more feasible as well as the overall reduction across the board in general PC expenses vs improved PC capabilities making PC gaming more approachable for both developers and consumers that we began to see the shift in PC support again after it dwindled in the late 1990s/early 2000s.

Pokemon isn't proof of your claim. Some of the most pirated games are the most successful like Cyberpunk 2077, Witcher 3, Pokemon, Minecraft, etc. This is due to a lot of complex elements. However, one point can be concluded is that they would likely have generated immensely greater profits than they did if not for piracy considering their success even after the fact of piracy. This is contrary to what you claim below of which more details in the response there.

We have regularly seen franchises fall because of poor sales. Lets not mix it up as purely "blame piracy" because it isn't that simple, however, the impact of piracy as one of the leading elements among several others is a problem. Combined they can cause franchises like Deus Ex, almost killed Project Zomboid (cost them a lot of money in Amazon fees...), Demigod suffered immensely see https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2009/04/demigod-hit-by-massive-piracy-review-scores-take-beating/
And more you can look up, just to name a few.

Heck, some games like Battle Dungeon folded or removed from some platforms because pirated copy players flooded their online servers overwhelming them https://www.cultofmac.com/news/battle-dungeon-ios-game-pulled-from-app-store-after-less-than-a-week-due-to-piracy

You might claim bs or how do they know but they have many ways to find out. Some devs like CD Projekt or Game Dev Tycoon (and many more, not an uncommon tactic) have code hidden in their games to send back analytical data of illegal pirated copies among other useful data for legitimate purposes like bug fixes, hardware statistics, etc. CD Projekt turned all the young women into old grandmas in Witcher 2 pirated copies, in addition to their big scandal incident. Game Dev Tycoon, a game about the player being an indie dev making games had a hidden hard mode pirated copies were forced to engage where their companies always failed because in the game their own indie games were pirated by non-existent in-game pirates. Other cases were technical issues/bugs, accidental or intentional, that occurred specifically only on pirated copies of the game. This type of situation and the prior trolling complaints online would make it clear and also create some hilarious online interactions when people outed themselves complaining about these issues... only to find they're busted. They can also track various online torrent data and compare it to their own sales data.

If you want to see some more examples of devs trolling pirates see this https://www.thegamer.com/15-games-that-punish-you-for-pirating-them/ Note the Witcher 2 example only barely covers the scandal and I recommend researching in more detail for those curious and why it was such a big deal that they did the whole Witcher 3 pro pirate stunt (despite emails and internal complaints about how severely out of control they found Witcher 3 piracy to be, and ironically later Cyberpunk 2077 became one of the most pirated games of all time as well).

Originally posted by zero.calvin:

not to mention, piracy more of a problem with the console games and yet, it havnt kill any console platform yet.

generally, a pirated game have no impact on game sales as people that pirate game will not buy the game to begin with due to various factor, the main factor is poverty.

While consoles definitely have their own fare share of piracy Nintendo has, in particular, truly been negatively impacted with their on-going piracy woes over multiple hardware generations to the point it has become rather famous. This is especially true because their stuff is easier to pirate on the Switch, itself, and on PC due to lower requirements. Nintendo has been quite public about the problems for years and how severe as well as damaging it is. Feel free to read up on it because it is so extensive.

For PC piracy, as I mentioned prior, actually almost totally killed PC gaming for around 8-10 year period before PC made a comeback. I will not repeat the details because I already answered that above.


As for the impact on sales comment you mention, this is false and can be proven by probability, consumer trends/behavior analysis, etc.

While we cannot analyze the exact loss of sales that would be converted to sales if piracy were impossible we can make some informed conclusions. In instances where piracy rates are ultra high like 70%, 80%, and often cited being 90-96% it is completely safe to say a notable loss of sales has occurred, even though it is definitely not a 1 pirate to 1 sale loss situation. Those figures are so inflated, especially the 90% figure where it is statistically completely impossible at that scale for some of those pirates to not be lost sales that would have otherwise purchase. The percentage of pirates of this doesn't have to be big, either, to have a massive impact.

Here is an example:

A game with 10 million sales and a piracy rate of 96% was found by the developer (whether approximate / loose approx or near totally accurate, depending on method data acquired but lets assume accurate for simplicity and not a loose variable range approximate).

This means that total consumers are 250 million... 240 million of which are pirates. Clearly, it is statistically impossible at that scale for all 240m pirates to NOT be a lost purchase and anyone claiming otherwise is either a liar or truly delusional. While we can't predict how many are lost sales we can see an impact here. If even a small fraction, such as 2% of those were to be lost sales... a mere 2% out of 96% of those pirates means that translates to 5 million sales lost or a 50% increase in sales (which is more than a 50% increase in profits because there were initial base costs for development/etc.). If the difference was 4-8% then you're looking at a 200-300% profit increase potential they're not getting because of piracy. These are not small figures despite the percentages being so low. We can statistically conclude there is clear damage to profits, but not the extent of said dmg. For all we know those lost sales could even be larger figures such as 20-30% and it could have been a billion dollar game.

Why piracy occurs? For many reasons, but most studies conclude financial limitations are not the cause in most instances, though this can be the reason in some regions.

Ultimately, what makes the topic of piracy complex is a lack of access to truly large scale global data to analyze it on an industry wide scale rather than individual developer investigations and many of the relatively very poor studies leading to wide misinformation done surrounding piracy or lazily grouping piracy data together that doesn't belong like some of the popular European studies grouping game stats with other mediums (tho sometimes they offer easily missed footnotes clarifying that others miss...).

Originally posted by zero.calvin:

the video game industry, the music industry and the movie industry pretty much have proven again and again that piracy is a problem of access, the moment we have thing like netflix, amazon music and steam, piracy has fallen off the cliff as those platform made movies, music and video game very affordable.

Piracy is still a huge issue for reasons unrelated to access. Yes, some region locked content may result in piracy as one cause but it isn't the majority. Piracy is still a huge issue even now with Netflix, Amazon, etc. suffering issues with it despite very low costs and illegal sharing proving access and costs actually aren't the problem. It is still possible to illegally share or even record video from Netflix. This is why those platforms (some of them that are more competent) and Windows (through Edge, and why some platforms don't offer full quality support or any access in some cases through any browser but Microsoft's Edge) that try to prevent screen recording but this is honestly very easy to defeat and thus the content is widely shared illegally. In fact, the studies around piracy usually are focused on movies, music, etc. and not games, often lobbing games into them haphazardly. In those studies the typical conclusion is piracy occurring for reasons unrelated to financial or access reasons (and further confirmed through interviews with volunteer anonymous pirates), often with some of the wealthiest regions having the worst piracy rates ironically.

Originally posted by zero.calvin:

so also no, DRM like denuvo doesn't benefit the consumer at all because what do you think happen if there is anything happen to denuvo server? the same thing that happen to retro game on CD and old window systems. you cant use them anymore even if you brought it as the authentication method for the DRM are not longer functional. the only group of people that get punished by DRM are paying customer, not pirate.

Nothing bad is going to happen if Denuvo servers are no longer offered because they changed the licensing years ago so any game using a newer license (aka anything released at all in the last several years) has a subscription license where they have to pay to extend it and if they don't Denuvo must be removed by law. This is why you see so many games dropping it after 1-3 years now days. Further there are bypass codes the developer/Denuvo's Irdeto could offer as well in some limited downtime. As for limited downtime it isn't a big deal for it to be down for a few hours like any other online only MMO/MOBA/CoD/etc. It might inconvenience a very small percentage of players actively playing that game at that point and time but only for a few hours and those downtimes are very very rare, too.

The same thing did NOT happen to retro games. The old Denuvo license from many years ago and those old games had permanent DRM solutions, unlike the current Denuvo.

As for not benefiting consumers... I already explained that and ou didn't even offer a counter argument. You just randomly said "no, it doesn't benefit consumers" with zero elaboration relating to what I gave before. Again, just because they're not instantly gratifying benefits they're still very real benefits. This isn't even getting into benefits like Denuvo currently offers in its virtually uncrackable state where the pirate scene has given up cracking Denuvo games almost totally for a few years so that illegal pirates can't get malware from downloading malicious copies of games since such copies don't exist (unless they're so desperate they download anything claiming to be a game even if it isn't and is just fake files and malware mixed together).

Originally posted by zero.calvin:

people that is against denuvo very likely arent a pirate but people who has experienced with DRM ♥♥♥♥ up like myself... denuvo wasnt a red flag for me, but i generally avoided it if i could... fun fact, i was a console gamer for a really long time because i'm tired of getting screwed over by DRM in PC games back in the 90's.

Your claim is based on no evidence about if they're pirates or not. We can tell certain posters who have literal thousands of posts on anti-Denuvo are, almost certainly, making posts for illegitimate reasons whether they're the pirate or they're supporting piracy efforts through monetary gain for their efforts. That is real evidence because having thousands of posts on the topic in a few years is a hyper abnormal extreme investiture of one's time.

As for DRM failures... lets be clear. DRM in general, not just Denuvo, has earned a bad wrap in some cases because there are clearly bad ways like the one you mentions of some older versions of DRM such as SecureROM, being implemented. There may also be less ideal ones now days, too. Even Denuvo could be argued, from some angles, to have a negative benefit on a technicality even if not legally supported and ultra-rare as a legitimate not intentionally done for propaganda issue, in scenarios like Linux comparability (because modders and enthusiasts love freedom, even if both Denuvo and the game aren't officially even supported on both ends on said platforms like Linux). However, it can also be said that not all DRM is bad and many like Denuvo are legitimately not an issue for 99.99% of consumers and those other 0.01% (probably less, actually) can simply deal with a few hours of inconvenience waiting for lockout time or seek help from the developer in super rare cases or play on the intended platforms. Denuvo, at least, is making a genuine effort to actually not be an issue with their updated licensing model, how it functions so you can play offline for extended periods of time, etc. To simply lump it all together as all DRM is evil is a terrible stance though, as shown by the repeated inability to actually find legitimate issue with Denuvo as only one DRM related protection among many. [/quote]
"Incorrect information.

Denuvo errors can occur due to how it is implemented even when Denuvo was NOT the cause. A solid proof example is the Capcom Monster Hunter crashes almost always throw Denuvo errors and are confirmed by both Capcom and numerous fans to have totally unrelated to Denuvo fixes (typically on the user's end). Another example is Dying Light 2.": https://tenor.com/it/view/metal-gear-rising-metal-gear-rising-revengeance-raiden-senator-armstrong-source-gif-25038929

[SIMΩMEGA]

"Multiple AAA develoers for over a decade have reported analyzing their games struggling with piracy rates exceeding 90% (often in the realm of 94-96%) such as Crytek, EA Games, CD Projeckt (yup, CEO got caught in a scandal over it hence their later Witcher 3 you can pirate it stance to reduce public outrage), Ubisoft, and many many more." my broder in christ wat in de bloody hell are u talking abt??? where de heck did u even pull dese numbers from??????

"In fact, piracy and those public complaints from those specific devs is the reason they gave for NOT providing PC releases for most of their titles during the PS3/360 era. it was only after the PS4/One era began when console architectures began to be far more similar to PC making the port process way more feasible", tell me u know nothing abt a games porting process wivout telling me, as long as u have de original games source code, making a port isnt dat complic8ed, sure its not a few clicks easy, but its definitely not as hard as u make it sound, unless u got proof oderwise ofc :).

well im tired of debunking all dis crap anyways...., but de fact dat ure pro-bloatware & anti-consumer tells me & every1 else all dat i need 2 know, pls try using more critical thinking next time pls.......

[SIMΩMEGA]

Originally posted by davidb11:

IT's like 10 thousand times better than it was back in the Arkham Origins days.
Denuvo.

I can't take anyone seriously if they're going to literally blatantly ignore the last 12+ years of evidence.

Denuvo does not magically ruin any game in the modern era.
And besides, this version isn't even the Root access one, which means it's extremely limited.

Ugh.

keep spamming de same argument over & over while also completely ignoring any oder counter-argument already made...., also its still wrong, lmao, cope.

[SIMΩMEGA]

Originally posted by vongogh:

Let's enjoy the drama of want yet forbidden, like Romeo and Juliet... except dumb.

anoder ad-hominem

[SIMΩMEGA]

Originally posted by davidb11:

10 years, 12 years, I made a minor mistake.
Attacking me for a minor mistake is not a good sign and kills your credibility.

Good grief. I know I'm not perfect.
But this Denuvo is somehow worse than Starforce mentality everyone has is getting excessive.

It's not perfect.

And no game developer promotes piracy.
Claiming that is literally by definition unhinged.
Please do not say stuff that makes less than zero sense to say, and something literally can't make less than zero sense by definition of nonsense. :P

But you're somehow breaking the mold.

I don't know how you got locked out of a game that hard, but there are ways to fix anything.
Even Denuvo issues.
I'm not ignoring the evidence because I base my experience on the grand full amount of every single thing ever written about Deunvo, and all the actual non-issues.

u made far from just minor mistakes lmao, and altho dat doesnt really change anything from eider side, a corrections a correction, b a man and own 2 it instead of crying abt like a little child, im done

[davidb11]

You need to stop spamming replies and also realize this thread was dead so you have no reason to bring it back.
Good grief.

Also, you need to look up the actual history behind this issue.

[dachte]

The Denuvo issue is not going to go away until Denuvo goes away. You can unsubscribe from the discussion though.

[lukaself]

Originally posted by davidb11:

You need to stop spamming replies and also realize this thread was dead so you have no reason to bring it back.
Good grief.

Also, you need to look up the actual history behind this issue.

They’re not spamming, each reply addressed a different point and contributed to the discussion. You’re free to engage with their points or move on, but telling others to stop discussing the topic isn’t an option.

[dustinwills51]

Originally posted by SIMΩMEGA:

"Multiple AAA develoers for over a decade have reported analyzing their games struggling with piracy rates exceeding 90% (often in the realm of 94-96%) such as Crytek, EA Games, CD Projeckt (yup, CEO got caught in a scandal over it hence their later Witcher 3 you can pirate it stance to reduce public outrage), Ubisoft, and many many more." my broder in christ wat in de bloody hell are u talking abt??? where de heck did u even pull dese numbers from??????

"In fact, piracy and those public complaints from those specific devs is the reason they gave for NOT providing PC releases for most of their titles during the PS3/360 era. it was only after the PS4/One era began when console architectures began to be far more similar to PC making the port process way more feasible", tell me u know nothing abt a games porting process wivout telling me, as long as u have de original games source code, making a port isnt dat complic8ed, sure its not a few clicks easy, but its definitely not as hard as u make it sound, unless u got proof oderwise ofc :).

well im tired of debunking all dis crap anyways...., but de fact dat ure pro-bloatware & anti-consumer tells me & every1 else all dat i need 2 know, pls try using more critical thinking next time pls.......

please learn to spell better, i'm having a hard time understanding you.

[lukaself]

Originally posted by dustinwills51:

please learn to spell better, i'm having a hard time understanding you.

That's also a valid point.

[Emma]

This thread was quite old before the recent post, so we're locking it to prevent confusion.