Erlang fight is very unfun.

[Kligan]

Let the "skill issue" spam in the comments commence.

Yes, the fight is difficult. But for all the wrong reasons.
He delays all of his attacks and just hangs mid-animation, then completes the attack in 4-6 frames. This is annoying as hell.
He interrupts heavy attack discharge animations. Forget about 4-points smash finisher. Or just randomly decides to "matrix" instant thrust 4-combo discharge after backstep, nullifying thosands of damage completely. Even when I'm delibetately trying to catch him in the middle of his attacks. This is annoying.
His "dogs" and after-image swords that stagger the player even after dodging his delayed attacks. Or the sockwave from random AOE attacks that will still do damage even if dodged. This is annoying.
Unlike any other boss in the game he can just pull the player from the light attack finisher animation and do his "grab", magnetizing the monkey to his spear. This is annoying.
He can pull the player from transfomations. The tiger strike is easily dodgeable, but he sometimes somehow does this even without the tiger. This is annoying!
And spells don't work on him past phase 1. Which is a bit annoying, but whatever. At least he still falls for a decoy from cloudstep and can be unveiled onto if he's in the middle of animation.

Overall, the Erlang fight is extremely annoying.
Every single other boss fight in the game was fun to various degrees. Some are very cool indeed - I especially liked the Yin Tiger and Yellow Loong fights. But man... this one... it's the only boss in the game I didn't like. And fighting him was irritating all the way through.

[Fresh]

Yeah its a trash fight, all the bosses have wasted themes that are just brought down by cowardly and cheap abilities.
everything you gain the entire game is worthless. like whats the difference between a lvl 1 wukong and lvl 100. like nothing

[dustin1280]

Anyone who uses the term "artifical difficulty" to describe delayed attacks, isn't worth having a discussion with to begin with... All they will do is blame the game for their own failures.

Originally posted by Sawayaka:

Yeah its a trash fight, all the bosses have wasted themes that are just brought down by cowardly and cheap abilities.
everything you gain the entire game is worthless. like whats the difference between a lvl 1 wukong and lvl 100. like nothing

This is just blatantly incorrect....

My level 100 Wukong kills bosses in seconds, and has numerous options available to him. My level 1 wukong could barely deal with Wandering Wight.

[SHINRA-CORP]

Originally posted by dustin1280:

Anyone who uses the term "artifical difficulty" to describe delayed attacks, isn't worth having a discussion with to begin with... All they will do is blame the game for their own failures.

Originally posted by Sawayaka:

Yeah its a trash fight, all the bosses have wasted themes that are just brought down by cowardly and cheap abilities.
everything you gain the entire game is worthless. like whats the difference between a lvl 1 wukong and lvl 100. like nothing

This is just blatantly incorrect....

My level 100 Wukong kills bosses in seconds, and has numerous options available to him. My level 1 wukong could barely deal with Wandering Wight.

Just because you like artificial difficulty doesnt make it not so.

[Kligan]

The thing is - I really do love the game, it's awesome! And the combat is awesome!
But, as I stated many times throughout this thread - Erlong fight feels out of place, because it simply spits on all the rules and game mechanics that were etablished previously.
People suggest the ways to "cheese" him. But that shouldn't be the thing to begin with. There would be no need to cheese the fight it if didn't have a lot of annoying and unfair mechanics.
Just as a point of reference - Erlong is the only boss in the entire game that I used consumables on. Because I wasn't enjoying that fight AT ALL and just wanted to be done with.
Now, uncovering all the secrets to get to the special scene was absolutely worth it - it's awesome. But Erlong left a sour aftertaste.

[dustin1280]

Originally posted by SHINRA-CORP:

Just because you like artificial difficulty doesnt make it not so.

You are simply one of the people that is using the term objectively wrong...
"Artifical Difficulty" is absolutely a thing, but delayed attacks it is not...

People like you use that term to describe anything you (subjectively) consider "unfair" or "cheap." But in reality you just want to blame the game for your own shortcomings...

[dustin1280]

Originally posted by Kligan:

The thing is - I really do love the game, it's awesome! And the combat is awesome!
But, as I stated many times throughout this thread - Erlong fight feels out of place, because it simply spits on all the rules and game mechanics that were etablished previously.
People suggest the ways to "cheese" him. But that shouldn't be the thing to begin with. There would be no need to cheese the fight it if didn't have a lot of annoying and unfair mechanics.
Just as a point of reference - Erlong is the only boss in the entire game that I used consumables on. Because I wasn't enjoying that fight AT ALL and just wanted to be done with.
Now, uncovering all the secrets to get to the special scene was absolutely worth it - it's awesome. But Erlong left a sour aftertaste.

Erlang is a secret final boss battle, he is meant to be the hardest boss in the game. I can understand the frustration when fighting him, because he is supposed to be very difficult.

I just don't like when the people use the term "artificial difficulty" to describe something PURELY subjective. It's totally fine that you consider his battle "unfun," but don't try to claim it's unfun because of "artificial difficulty" when objectively that is not the case.

Also every single thing you mentioned in your OP are 100% dodgable.

[SHINRA-CORP]

Originally posted by dustin1280:

Originally posted by SHINRA-CORP:

Just because you like artificial difficulty doesnt make it not so.

You are simply one of the people that is using the term objectively wrong...
"Artifical Difficulty" is absolutely a thing, but delayed attacks it is not...

People like you use that term to describe anything you (subjectively) consider "unfair." But in reality you just want to blame the game for your own shortcomings...

You fail to understand the term.

Its artificial because they have him randomly slow down and then attack in a blink of an eye.

It creates a layer of false difficulty because its not based on skill but luck.

Some of his combos stretch up to around 15 moves.

They purposely create almost no window of attack and call it difficulty. Its not difficulty ifs cheap.

[dustin1280]

Originally posted by SHINRA-CORP:

Originally posted by dustin1280:

You are simply one of the people that is using the term objectively wrong...
"Artifical Difficulty" is absolutely a thing, but delayed attacks it is not...

People like you use that term to describe anything you (subjectively) consider "unfair." But in reality you just want to blame the game for your own shortcomings...

You fail to understand the term.

Its artificial because they have him randomly slow down and then attack in a blink of an eye.

It creates a layer of false difficulty because its not based on skill but luck.

Some of his combos stretch up to around 15 moves.

They purposely create almost no window of attack and call it difficulty. Its not difficulty ifs cheap.

Again you are wrong, but thanks for making it clear you don't know what you are talking about and you are the EXACT type of person I described.

You can 100% dodge every single attack he makes with skill alone, including his long delay combos... Luck has NOTHING to do with it.

He also has plenty of openings even in-between his combos, you just cant over-commit. Again this is a skill issue, not luck, not "cheap."

This video alone proves you are completely wrong:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMZrLHef0Ic

If there were "artificial difficulty" as you describe it, that video wouldn't be possible.

[Phobos]

Originally posted by Kligan:

Erlang fight is very unfun.

Have you tried turning on skill?

[Kligan]

Originally posted by dustin1280:

If there were "artificial difficulty" as you describe it, that video wouldn't be possible.

You can no-damage anything if you spend enough time to completely memorize every single thing they do.

[dustin1280]

Originally posted by Kligan:

Originally posted by dustin1280:

If there were "artificial difficulty" as you describe it, that video wouldn't be possible.

You can no-damage anything if you spend enough time to completely memorize every single thing they do.

K, but he was describing artificial difficulty as "cheap" and "luck" based...
That video clearly proves everything he said wrong and everything I said correct.

"Artificial difficulty" is things that you as the player can't avoid...
Moves that 100% hit you with no recourse to prevent or dodge
HP scaled to an insane level so you have nothing but a HP sponge...
etc...

Artificial Difficulty is NOT delay combos that might be difficult to dodge (depending on your SKILL level).

Again, nothing wrong with not enjoying the Erlang fight...
But don't blame it on "artificial difficulty" when that is 100% objectively wrong.

[Kligan]

Originally posted by dustin1280:

Again, nothing wrong with not enjoying the Erlang fight...
But don't blame it on "artificial difficulty" when that is 100% objectively wrong.

What I meant when I said that is that Erlang fight breaks the rules of the game. No boss besides him does this.
Executing 4-points instant thrust attack, even when specifically trying to catch him in the middle of his twirling around, only to see him do "Neo" lean, and then casually continue to twirl where he left off... It's annoying and frustrating.
Trying over and over just to memorize how long he will be waiting in every attack animation before he decides to finally land a swing in 4 frames - is not fun, it's not reactive, it's just repetition.

[Phobos]

Originally posted by Kligan:

Originally posted by dustin1280:

Again, nothing wrong with not enjoying the Erlang fight...
But don't blame it on "artificial difficulty" when that is 100% objectively wrong.

What I meant when I said that is that Erlang fight breaks the rule of the game. No boss besides him does this.
Executing 4-points instant thrust attack, even when specifically trying to catch him in the middle of his twirling around, only to see him do "Neo" lean, and then casually continue to twirl where he left off... It's annoying and frustrating.
Trying over and over just to memorize how long he will be waiting in every attack animation before he decides to finally land a swing in 4 frames - is not fun, it's not reactive, it's just repetition.

What is the rule of the game?

[dustin1280]

Originally posted by Kligan:

Originally posted by dustin1280:

Again, nothing wrong with not enjoying the Erlang fight...
But don't blame it on "artificial difficulty" when that is 100% objectively wrong.

What I meant when I said that is that Erlang fight breaks the rule of the game. No boss besides him does this.
Executing 4-points instant thrust attack, even when specifically trying to catch him in the middle of his twirling around, only to see him do "Neo" lean, and then casually continue to twirl where he left off... It's annoying and frustrating.
Trying over and over just to memorize how long he will be waiting in every attack animation before he decides to finally land a swing in 4 frames - is not fun, it's not reactive, it's just repetition.

I have absolutely no concern with you being annoyed by these things, nothing you said in THIS SPECIFIC post, is egregious or should be mocked. Everyone is welcome to their own opinion and feelings.

I take issue with people who scream "artificial difficulty" when that is 100% objectively incorrect.

Shinra is the EXACT person I called out BEFORE he made it clear by his posts that my callout was accurate. He is blaming the game for "artificial difficulty" instead of acknowledging his own shortcomings...

[Phobos]

Originally posted by dustin1280:

Originally posted by Kligan:

What I meant when I said that is that Erlang fight breaks the rule of the game. No boss besides him does this.
Executing 4-points instant thrust attack, even when specifically trying to catch him in the middle of his twirling around, only to see him do "Neo" lean, and then casually continue to twirl where he left off... It's annoying and frustrating.
Trying over and over just to memorize how long he will be waiting in every attack animation before he decides to finally land a swing in 4 frames - is not fun, it's not reactive, it's just repetition.

I have absolutely no concern with you being annoyed by these things, nothing you said in THIS SPECIFIC post, is egregious or should be mocked.

I take issue with people who scream "artificial difficulty" when that is 100% objectively incorrect.

Shinra is the EXACT person I called out BEFORE he made it clear by his posts that my callout was accurate. He is blaming the game for "artificial difficulty" instead of acknowledging his own shortcomings...

it's never a me-thing, right! Must be them evil devs. LOL.