Chapter 3 nearly ruined the game

[Stormy Kami]

This game was a treat for the first 2 chapters. Was it perfect? No. Was it fun and clever? Yes.

Moving on to chapter 3. Oh boy. It's a snow area so of course, the only colors you'll see is black and white (wow fun colors!). But don't worry gamers! Wukong has a solution to make sure you don't get sick of all that black and white, they made the chapter longer than the entirety of chapter 1 and 2 combined! It took me 4 days long play sessions to get to the end of it... After taking a break for over a month because I got sick of it at the 1/3 mark.

The area is 90% empty space with no bosses or anything interesting in between but you're forced to explore the nothing if you want to get to that juicy chest at the edge of the map with no indication of where it might be, and of course a crucial side quest step or 2. And when there isn't gigantic empty space with nothing in it guess what, you get to choose a branching path that probably loops back on itself or leads to another branching path! Better break your immersion and get that online map ready!

And if empty spaces weren't wnito make you jump for joy, don't you worry. There's a prison section that forcibly stuns you ever 2 minutes and makes everything deal and take double damage, but don't worry! The enemies don't get stunned during the phase change like you do so it's free damage for them! And for the first and only time ever I'm the game, you can now fall off ledges! Talk about consistency in game design!

And the bosses are just wonderful. Bad hit boxes? Want em! Camera snags? Need em! Texture traps? You bet your sweet bippy! Uneven footing that causes you to move zero steps forward and bosses to suddenly glitch in a different direction? LETS GOOO!!!

Anyway. If you love ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ video games, than chapter 3 is definitely for you. I'm only sorry to say that the rest of the game isn't this ♥♥♥♥ so you might not like the rest of the game so much :(

[Xengre]

Chapter 3 has a fairly considerable number of spirit mini-bosses, secrets to be found, and bosses. More than any other chapter. Yes, it is large and sometimes has gaps of space, but it also has the most to engage, too.

What exactly were you expecting from a snow covered area btw? Vibrant snow patches and parrots?

How precisely is this different from the desert of chapter 2 by the way?

Does it feel like it might be a tad excessively long? Sure, I can agree it does go on a bit long.

No idea what you mean by chest at edge of the map with no indication where it might be... or side quest comment.

Some of your complaints about the map don't make sense and it isn't even hard to avoid being lost so I'm a bit perplexed by your comments.

The prison section stun effect is annoying, but its like 2-3 seconds not a big deal. Losing your health hardly matters there because it has some of the easiest basic mobs in the entire game. It actually gives you a huge damage buff to your character's attack power (nearly 50%) in return, too. The area is quite short and has multiple shrines. You can always come back to do content after beating the area boss if you want to explore even easier. You're making it out to be way worse than it is. Honestly speaking, it is non-issue.

You cannot fall off ledges, excluding the logs (which yes, I agree they're a bad design especially because they're so finicky about jumping off them). Instead, the enemies have to knock you off which can happen anywhere in the game, including chapter 1. This is just uncommon compared to the prison which runs along a cliff edge the entire prison across all levels of the prison. It is entirely your fault if you don't immediately realize to stop putting yourself between the ledge and your enemies. Completely 100% reliably preventable issue.

What bosses have bad hit boxes in chapter 3? I don't recall any of them having bad hit boxes. Sorry, but if you are missing Kang-Jin because it is weaving and bobbing that is a skill issue, not a hit box issue.

Camera snags? Texture traps? Bosses suddenly glitch in a different direction? What are you even talking about? I think you may have lost your mind.

While chapter 3 isn't my favorite chapter I quite enjoyed, it overall.

[DeJaVuRick]

I got to chapter 3 and left it at that, I had to drag myself through the game to get there.
Just found the whole game boring and lifeless.
Was really looking forward to it before its release just nowhere near as good as I was led to believe.

[Dryspace]

Originally posted by Xengre:

What exactly were you expecting from a snow covered area btw?...

Are you sure that you are not letting your bias get in the way of the truth?

[Stormy Kami]

Originally posted by Xengre:

What bosses have bad hit boxes in chapter 3? I don't recall any of them having bad hit boxes. Sorry, but if you are missing Kang-Jin because it is weaving and bobbing that is a skill issue, not a hit box issue.

If you think that the dragon has an acceptable hit box I sincerely hope you never design a game.

As for texture traps, this level was absolutely horrible for invisible walls that look like it;s somewhere you should be able to go. And alot of the mini bosses were in small areas that had alot of little rocks that would get in the way of a smash charge attacks gap closer. I had to respec into thrust to get around it.

And as for camera snags. My camera kept getting stuck in a wall in several of those same boss fights if my back was to it. Yellowbrow even got my camera hard stuck in the statue behind him and I could move it free so he got a free kill there lol.

Originally posted by Xengre:

How precisely is this different from the desert of chapter 2 by the way?

The difference is the chapter wasnt the length of the lord of the rings extended trilogy.

I thought the desert was ♥♥♥♥ aesthetically too but at least it wasnt massively open. Desert was mostly caves and roads.[/quote]

[Xengre]

Originally posted by Dryspace:

Originally posted by Xengre:

What exactly were you expecting from a snow covered area btw?...

Are you sure that you are not letting your bias get in the way of the truth?

Yes, I'm sure because I asked a QUESTION. There is no bias.

I literally asked for him to explain what he expected.

Quite ironically... You also did not answer that question, kind of validating my entire point. You had nothing that clearly stood out as an example.

This is very different from racking your brain for good ideas, because they do exist. Examples: like FFX's Macalania Woods but snow version, or some elven twist on it, Xenoblade Chronicles Sylvia region, etc. However, these designs don't really fit the lore, visuals, and elements of this game (Elven designs don't fit, nor does the tone and visage of Sylvia region's elements, nor the fantasy magical design of Macalania woods in a realistic Chinese mythological universe). It isn't easy to come up with such creativity and most games don't accomplish it, either, that also have snow.

I actually pointed out, as a direct point of dispute, "why is the sand chapter okay for the same offense but the snow region is not?"

Originally posted by Stormy Kami:

If you think that the dragon has an acceptable hit box I sincerely hope you never design a game.

Just because you suck at the game doesn't mean it is bad design.

Look, you literally couldn't even refute the point I made about you missing it because it bobs and weaves.

Maybe either use faster attacks instead of slow heavy hitting ones, immobilize it, use your clones to stagger it, or directly trade when it is attacking with the dmg reduction effects perks on some of the heavy attacks. Further, when it is knocked down it can be hit eaisy with heavy attacks. I've fought that boss twice ever, and both never lost to it nor found it even remotely difficult to hit. You are the problem, not the boss.

Originally posted by Stormy Kami:

As for texture traps, this level was absolutely horrible for invisible walls that look like it;s somewhere you should be able to go.

I have no idea where you are getting this phrasing/terminology of "texture traps" but at least you give us an idea, finally, of what you are trying to say. Honestly?

No, this level does not have it that bad. There are a few spots, notably at the very start of chapter 3 but not many past that point. Chapter 2 is far more offensive on this point, despite you ironically preferring it... (I like chapter 2, too, as it is my favorite actually).

Now that we know what you are talking about, while it isn't a huge deal once you get used to it... me and many others do agree that it is a bit annoying with the invisible walls. Personally, I got used to it pretty early in chapter 2 after dealing with it in the first chapter and part of 2 and finally getting the gist of their level design routing and environmental design, and never ran into any others for the rest of the game for the most part. However, I do recognize people's opinion/adaptation to this annoyance will vary and it would have been nice if it was never an issue in the first place. It can be hard to have such high fidelity environments feel organic while avoiding this issue but it isn't impossible.

Originally posted by Stormy Kami:

And alot of the mini bosses were in small areas that had alot of little rocks that would get in the way of a smash charge attacks gap closer. I had to respec into thrust to get around it.

Honestly? Based on this and your prior comment sounds like a skill issue... My favorite stance is Smash and I've never found rocks, the environment, or even fighting areas too small or problematic and I use heavy attacks (notably charged) almost always because light attacks are actually not very good. Even stranger is you are okay with the desert rocky map but find this to be an issue in er... chapter 3, the snow valley which doesn't have a whole lot of rocks in walkable paths. I'm guessing your core issue was in the two forested areas?

Originally posted by Stormy Kami:

And as for camera snags. My camera kept getting stuck in a wall in several of those same boss fights if my back was to it.

That would be horribly annoying, but that is a bug. I've never had that issue once in two playthroughs. I got no advice for this issue, either, since I've never encountered it nor have I seen anyone mention it.

Originally posted by Stormy Kami:

Yellowbrow even got my camera hard stuck in the statue behind him and I could move it free so he got a free kill there lol.

Unfortunate bug, and if this is happening repeatedly... you might want to reinstall the game and see if that helps.

Originally posted by Stormy Kami:

The difference is the chapter wasnt the length of the lord of the rings extended trilogy.

C'mon, it was a bit long but it wasn't THAT bad. Maybe you somehow got lost excessively and thus it felt unusually longer than it should have.

Either way, I do agree it is a tad on the long side but as the chapter, itself, isn't bad. If you're comparing this to chapter 2 and stating this is worse because of that reason I don't really see the logic... Maybe take a break from the game in that case or something. Many other games will be stuck in specific regions for far far longer than 2-4 hours.

Originally posted by Stormy Kami:

I thought the desert was ♥♥♥♥ aesthetically too but at least it wasnt massively open. Desert was mostly caves and roads.

I'm guessing your core complaint is making sure you thoroughly find everything is a chore compared to the more linear areas? Particularly the Valley area? I can understand that, because the game is chalked so full of stuff to be found, but I'm not entirely sure I can agree that is a bad thing. It's like saying Xenoblade Chronicles, particular X or the first one, are bad games because of their vast open areas to explore... or Skyrim, Witcher 3, etc. Just a mere tone shift from linear to open making you explore more thoroughly isn't bad, in itself, to be fair.

[JessnaShines]

Originally posted by Xengre:

Originally posted by Dryspace:

Are you sure that you are not letting your bias get in the way of the truth?

Yes, I'm sure because I asked a QUESTION. There is no bias.

I literally asked for him to explain what he expected.

Quite ironically... You also did not answer that question, kind of validating my entire point. You had nothing that clearly stood out as an example.

This is very different from racking your brain for good ideas, because they do exist. Examples: like FFX's Macalania Woods but snow version, or some elven twist on it, Xenoblade Chronicles Sylvia region, etc. However, these designs don't really fit the lore, visuals, and elements of this game (Elven designs don't fit, nor does the tone and visage of Sylvia region's elements, nor the fantasy magical design of Macalania woods in a realistic Chinese mythological universe). It isn't easy to come up with such creativity and most games don't accomplish it, either, that also have snow.

I actually pointed out, as a direct point of dispute, "why is the sand chapter okay for the same offense but the snow region is not?"

Originally posted by Stormy Kami:

If you think that the dragon has an acceptable hit box I sincerely hope you never design a game.

Just because you suck at the game doesn't mean it is bad design.

Look, you literally couldn't even refute the point I made about you missing it because it bobs and weaves.

Maybe either use faster attacks instead of slow heavy hitting ones, immobilize it, use your clones to stagger it, or directly trade when it is attacking with the dmg reduction effects perks on some of the heavy attacks. Further, when it is knocked down it can be hit eaisy with heavy attacks. I've fought that boss twice ever, and both never lost to it nor found it even remotely difficult to hit. You are the problem, not the boss.

Originally posted by Stormy Kami:

As for texture traps, this level was absolutely horrible for invisible walls that look like it;s somewhere you should be able to go.

I have no idea where you are getting this phrasing/terminology of "texture traps" but at least you give us an idea, finally, of what you are trying to say. Honestly?

No, this level does not have it that bad. There are a few spots, notably at the very start of chapter 3 but not many past that point. Chapter 2 is far more offensive on this point, despite you ironically preferring it... (I like chapter 2, too, as it is my favorite actually).

Now that we know what you are talking about, while it isn't a huge deal once you get used to it... me and many others do agree that it is a bit annoying with the invisible walls. Personally, I got used to it pretty early in chapter 2 after dealing with it in the first chapter and part of 2 and finally getting the gist of their level design routing and environmental design, and never ran into any others for the rest of the game for the most part. However, I do recognize people's opinion/adaptation to this annoyance will vary and it would have been nice if it was never an issue in the first place. It can be hard to have such high fidelity environments feel organic while avoiding this issue but it isn't impossible.

Originally posted by Stormy Kami:

And alot of the mini bosses were in small areas that had alot of little rocks that would get in the way of a smash charge attacks gap closer. I had to respec into thrust to get around it.

Honestly? Based on this and your prior comment sounds like a skill issue... My favorite stance is Smash and I've never found rocks, the environment, or even fighting areas too small or problematic and I use heavy attacks (notably charged) almost always because light attacks are actually not very good. Even stranger is you are okay with the desert rocky map but find this to be an issue in er... chapter 3, the snow valley which doesn't have a whole lot of rocks in walkable paths. I'm guessing your core issue was in the two forested areas?

Originally posted by Stormy Kami:

And as for camera snags. My camera kept getting stuck in a wall in several of those same boss fights if my back was to it.

That would be horribly annoying, but that is a bug. I've never had that issue once in two playthroughs. I got no advice for this issue, either, since I've never encountered it nor have I seen anyone mention it.

Originally posted by Stormy Kami:

Yellowbrow even got my camera hard stuck in the statue behind him and I could move it free so he got a free kill there lol.

Unfortunate bug, and if this is happening repeatedly... you might want to reinstall the game and see if that helps.

Originally posted by Stormy Kami:

The difference is the chapter wasnt the length of the lord of the rings extended trilogy.

C'mon, it was a bit long but it wasn't THAT bad. Maybe you somehow got lost excessively and thus it felt unusually longer than it should have.

Either way, I do agree it is a tad on the long side but as the chapter, itself, isn't bad. If you're comparing this to chapter 2 and stating this is worse because of that reason I don't really see the logic... Maybe take a break from the game in that case or something. Many other games will be stuck in specific regions for far far longer than 2-4 hours.

Originally posted by Stormy Kami:

I thought the desert was ♥♥♥♥ aesthetically too but at least it wasnt massively open. Desert was mostly caves and roads.

I'm guessing your core complaint is making sure you thoroughly find everything is a chore compared to the more linear areas? Particularly the Valley area? I can understand that, because the game is chalked so full of stuff to be found, but I'm not entirely sure I can agree that is a bad thing. It's like saying Xenoblade Chronicles, particular X or the first one, are bad games because of their vast open areas to explore... or Skyrim, Witcher 3, etc. Just a mere tone shift from linear to open making you explore more thoroughly isn't bad, in itself, to be fair.

This chapter was actually awful.

[Jibroni Gibironi]

Originally posted by Stormy Kami:

This game was a treat for the first 2 chapters. Was it perfect? No. Was it fun and clever? Yes.

Moving on to chapter 3. Oh boy. It's a snow area so of course, the only colors you'll see is black and white (wow fun colors!). But don't worry gamers! Wukong has a solution to make sure you don't get sick of all that black and white, they made the chapter longer than the entirety of chapter 1 and 2 combined! It took me 4 days long play sessions to get to the end of it... After taking a break for over a month because I got sick of it at the 1/3 mark.

The area is 90% empty space with no bosses or anything interesting in between but you're forced to explore the nothing if you want to get to that juicy chest at the edge of the map with no indication of where it might be, and of course a crucial side quest step or 2. And when there isn't gigantic empty space with nothing in it guess what, you get to choose a branching path that probably loops back on itself or leads to another branching path! Better break your immersion and get that online map ready!

And if empty spaces weren't wnito make you jump for joy, don't you worry. There's a prison section that forcibly stuns you ever 2 minutes and makes everything deal and take double damage, but don't worry! The enemies don't get stunned during the phase change like you do so it's free damage for them! And for the first and only time ever I'm the game, you can now fall off ledges! Talk about consistency in game design!

And the bosses are just wonderful. Bad hit boxes? Want em! Camera snags? Need em! Texture traps? You bet your sweet bippy! Uneven footing that causes you to move zero steps forward and bosses to suddenly glitch in a different direction? LETS GOOO!!!

Anyway. If you love ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ video games, than chapter 3 is definitely for you. I'm only sorry to say that the rest of the game isn't this ♥♥♥♥ so you might not like the rest of the game so much :(

I'm on this chapter, and by golly, I'm ready to give up on this game. The gameplay was already as repetitive as gameplay can possibly get, but the snow map really shines a light on just how awful the gameplay loop really is, with the annoying mini boss fights making it even worse. Its not even just due to the map design, but the lack of a story to break up the gameplay is what is killing this game for me right now. Didn't deserve game of the year for that alone way I see it. Its already pretty much ruined it for me. Quickly losing interest, and I was already getting there even before this chapter.

[MAPA3M]

He-he. Chapter 4 maze-like caves and final boss (almost unbeatable without making certain side-quest) are waiting for you guys. Really, I just started Chapter 5 and God I'm so happy to leave Chapter 4.