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When you say tons, you probably list at least a ton. Also, i said after bg3
As for the time needed for something like to come out, barely matter even with Obsidian offering actual good crpgs every once in a while.
Now, before that there was Fallout, Baldurs Gate 1-2, Icewind Dale, Planescape: Torment, Arcanum, Vampire: Masquarade, Dragon Age: Origins/Awakening, Pathfinder: WorR/Kingmaker, KotOR1-2, Neverwinter Nights 1-2, Jagged Alliance 2, Divinity: OS1-2, Wildermyth, Wartales, Battle Brothers, Solasta, Wasteland 1-3... (I don't like Obsidian ones)
It's not the genre that makes a game good. It's exactly about how it's made, it's mechanics, it's gameplay, about how it is executed, how it feels, how it plays. If you don't enjoy playing sport games, it doesn't mean they are bad. Why is BG3 a success? Because of a new innovative gameplay and new innovative genre? No, because people enjoy playing it and because it doesn't hide anything behind a battlepass. You got the game=you get everything. Is this the new quality standart? Never was a thing before?
There are many good games and many bad games in any genre. There were many good and many bad game before BG3, and there will be more bad and more good games after BG3. What exactly is new here? BG3 is just a new very good game and it's hyped. What do they exactly mean by saying "establish a quality standard". I think they don't really understand it themselves. All the games before BG3 were a bad quality standart? All what's going on in this forum is just about comparing just two things: A battlepass system games and a 1 time pay to have all the content in game thing. Is this really a new standart? Never was a thing before?
I swear, after how players were treated with all the battle passes, bad DLC's, bad updates and wrong ideas, ANY popular genre well-made game with no shop or battle pass in it would make them happy.
Also, read some of the articles titled ~ "Why bg3 is considered a new standart game". You won't find any clear explicit answer to that.
Yes, those are great examples of good games. Were they called a "new standart"? No, they are just good games. I would call Alyx a "new standart game". A new Era game. This is an innovation in both tech and gaming. VR innovative.
I know i'm going against a huge crowd, but the only thing i can agree with is that BG3 is a VERY good game indeed. Yet, you can't just call it a "new standart" and hope everything will be changed from that moment with gaming.
So, you return the point i made against you back to me disingenuously and go on to make a Gish Gallop about it and return back to your strawman. You're mistaking the subjective reception of the audiance with the objective execution of a game mechanics.
Whever people enjoy it or not is an appeal to popularity: Argumentum ad populum, which is fallacy on a fundamental level. You did not make the point the game was good without a battle pass, you said the game HAD a battlepass. You should stop projecting when you enter a debate. My point is that since the Triple As rose to their statues of multi billion compagnies there wasn't a game that pulled its execution to the way it did, even Obsidian's isometric CRPGs post FONV doesn't come close thus far. That's amusing still but here's a reminder of what you wrote down yourself:
What matters for a game on an objective level if it follows the standards of classification and quality of the CRPG genre it inherits from the original RPG medium. Its execution and so on; i know this more than you ever will and you testified for that matter. So, why persist in being disingenuous and being in denial? Just because you cannot recognize your appreciation for it is too personal and biased with said execution? It has nothing to do with doing something """new""", you said it yourself, what matters is how it pulls off its execution of systems and mechanics.
"The gaming industry has witnessed an array of groundbreaking titles that have captivated players across the globe. Two such highly anticipated games, Overwatch 2 and Baldur's Gate 3, have garnered significant attention. While both games have their unique features and qualities, this essay will delve into a comparative analysis of the two and argue why Baldur's Gate 3 stands out as the superior game.
I. Gameplay Mechanics and Complexity:
Overwatch 2, a team-based first-person shooter, continues the legacy of its predecessor with fast-paced action and colorful characters. Its focus on team coordination and tactical gameplay is commendable. However, when compared to Baldur's Gate 3, a role-playing game (RPG) that offers a deeply immersive and complex gameplay experience, Overwatch 2 pales in comparison. Baldur's Gate 3 presents players with intricate decision-making, character customization, and a rich narrative, allowing for a more varied and engaging gameplay experience.
II. Storytelling and World-Building:
Overwatch 2 attempts to build upon its lore through cinematic sequences and in-game events, but it primarily revolves around competitive gameplay rather than a compelling narrative. On the other hand, Baldur's Gate 3, as an RPG, places great emphasis on storytelling and world-building. The game offers a meticulously crafted fantasy world with detailed environments, well-developed characters, and branching narratives that react dynamically to player choices. This narrative depth and immersion surpass the comparatively shallow narrative of Overwatch 2.
III. Role-Playing Elements and Player Agency:
Baldur's Gate 3's strength lies in its robust role-playing elements and player agency. Players can shape their character's personality, align with different factions, and make choices that significantly impact the game world. In contrast, Overwatch 2 lacks this level of personalization and agency. The heroes' abilities are predefined, limiting player creativity and strategic decision-making. Baldur's Gate 3's extensive character customization and dynamic storytelling make it the clear winner in this aspect.
IV. Longevity and Replayability:
While Overwatch 2 features seasonal events and regular updates to maintain player interest, its replayability is primarily driven by competitive matches and cosmetic unlocks. On the other hand, Baldur's Gate 3's intricate narrative, diverse character builds, and multitude of choices ensure that each playthrough offers a fresh experience. The game's multiple endings and paths provide players with substantial replayability, enhancing its longevity compared to Overwatch 2.
V. Artistic Direction and Immersion:
Overwatch 2 boasts a vibrant and visually appealing art style that has become iconic. However, Baldur's Gate 3's detailed and realistic graphics contribute to a more immersive experience. The attention to detail in character models, landscapes, and animations enhances the player's connection to the game world. This level of immersion is challenging for Overwatch 2 to achieve given its focus on competitive gameplay and fast-paced action.
Conclusion:
In conclusion, while both Overwatch 2 and Baldur's Gate 3 have their merits, the latter demonstrates a clear superiority due to its complex gameplay mechanics, storytelling depth, role-playing elements, player agency, replayability, and immersive artistic direction. Baldur's Gate 3's dedication to providing players with a rich and customizable experience that transcends traditional gaming boundaries makes it a standout title in the modern gaming landscape."
In detail explanation, please, with comparison to previously released titles I mentioned above.
Choice and concequence, dice rolls, dialogues choices, skill checks, multiple endings and the likes; compared to the game you listed for example which dates back to the 2000s instead of the 2010s. VTMB a personal favorite of mine that you listed came out butchered by unfortunate concequences thanks to Valve and Activision, the side quests pulls off a limited choice of 4 dialogue choices with eventual skills checks in charisma, intimidation, and persuassion to a few additional ones such as humanity scores and so on. The way VTMB execute well as a CRPG is limited to the side quests sadly with concequences while also affecting your character's sheet, the stats of your characters barely have an impact on the main quest past half the game with it's sudden shift in direction toward a few dungeons and actions like sewers, the moment you get into the Cabbie's taxi for that matter is ultimately the only choice that affects the ending and turns into a "choose your ending" moment like in Mass Effect 3 which has been criticised as bad execution. In more modern iterations of games that tries to pretend to be under that genre, Cyberpunk falls into the same traps for instance and CDPR did mentioned they took inspiration from that game apparently but as it seems they learned the wrong lessons, and when it comes to skill checks besides xp bonus it has no effect on the storyline be it either side quest or main quests, and the perks and traits are ultimately shallow with no relevance.
Meanwhile thus far from what i experience from Baldur's Gate 3 is a more streamlined experience toward the isometric CRPG genre but comes with proper skills checks, dialogue choices and concequences, the dice rolls actively affects the choices and so does my character build. It's nothing new but execution wise i have evidence the game actively support a proper roleplaying experience compared to what the Triple As offer with their "CRPGs".
Aka RNG, which exists in almost any RPG
Are you... are you even serious right now?
Existed for a longest time, for instance in very popular game called fallout 1 with computer, lockpick, pickpocketing, speech...
Again, existed for a longest time, for instance in fallout 1 with end slides. ALSO: BALDURS GATE 3 HAS NO END SLIDES, SO ADS ABOUT OVER 9000 ENDINGS WERE A LIE.
Hopefully, you are joking and not serious.
Did you forget that in Fallouts1-2 you could do pacifist run based on your build? What are you even talking about?
I have played Fallout 1 and 2 - New Vegas too for that matter - those existed already a while ago yes, they all come from the purest form of Roleplaying game medium you fool, i have never said Badlur's Gate 3 invented them. Is the only thing you two are good at is making a strawman to even begin to pretend to have a point?
Try again.
And knowing i am well aware of Fallout 1 and 2's exitence and much more, or tabletops, pen-and-paper RPGs; what does my phrasing implies to you? Ever since the Triple As lowered the standards and dumbed down of license such as Fallout and TES, whom among in the Triple As has reastablished a quality standard for the CRPGs, pray tell. Larian studio if you investigated only but a little, reveals they are more than the mere pretended "indies" the articles around the net paint them to be. Their work force alone and budget proves them to be Triple As by rating.
Your point is only "it existed", that's the sole findings of how you twisted my words and badly you comprehend english reading. Well done, captain obvious you have stroke another post once again! Execution is how well made it is, the quality of an idea, mechanic and element or how contextualized it is. You have not disproven my original claim, you have been solely disingenous. Such a strange mutual bonding you two made in the instant moment, or perhaps am i speaking to an alt?
In the second paragraph, you came back to the start. "Execution is how well made it is, the quality of an idea, mechanic and element or how contextualized it is." - the ♥♥♥♥ anyone supposed to get from this sentence? There is zero objectivity and zero facts. You have to expand on your thoughts if you want to be taken seriously.
There is objectivity and facts for how to read that word in a video game discussion - for instance how well can one make a good "Survival Horror" game? By following the standards of classification, so: puzzle solving, ressource management with limited inventory, and open ended level design with optional backtracking. That's roughly 3 standards, the first Resident Evil game establishes them. The execution is argued dated for some of its ideas but the indie market has made a few games to disprove that; this was an answer to the Triple As such as Capcom whom have fumbled to meet undertand that inconsistantly. How the standards and mechanics are executed and met is decided by how the game manages to respect it down to a minimum.
Every genres have their standards that classify and define the games under them - and once again whether someone likes it or not does not matter. That is a whole other discussion, the execution of a genre is self-explanatory for anyone that has been playing video games long enough, as everyone can comprehend what is a plateformer. CRPGs, is under the unfortunate effect of the video game industry bastardizing Roleplaying games down to only "levels and stats" such as how JRPGs have since the 80s, which is what the average normie will understand if not a game "with light RPG elements", if they do not understand that's on them and the fault is at the Triple As.
And my optimism is as the same as every single Resistant gamer willing to fight against the corpos, and see the indie market thrive! I have witnessed multiple victories against the corpos and their drones, i myself fought against Capcom with the Devil May Cry community to save our favorite license from a bad reboot, and gatekeeped its playerbase out of the market to weaken the revenue of the reboot while supporting a bigger sales record for our favorite games, and we won. There is proof in this industry's history, that we can fight against them - the Triple As and support the games that once again normalize a good minimum standard of quality. If we gatekeep low standarism and mindless consumerism, we can starve them near death - bankruptcy even it takes time to teach them a lesson so that they finally start screwing around. We can fight them by voting with our wallet, they grew as Triple As because of us since our money is the blood of the industry, therefore we can fight by doing the opposite.
The zoomers are plagued to ignore the state of the industry by cowering through toxic positivity and gatekkeping us by overwhelming our numbers... in other cases outside zoomers, some just accepted the idea that everything was doomed and is irremediable; this couldn't be more false, but nonetheless their fatalism will only push them to see things just hapening and even rejoin the mass mindless consumerism. I have seen that myself with the community of Age of Empires, composed of boomers that submited to the rulling of Microsoft as absolute. While in contrast, the Halo fanbase kept fighting hard as they could and as everyone can see, 343 industry is now weaken and relegated to a backsit thanks to Microsoft flushing also their work force. Even the Fallout community is still as determined to push back against Bugthesda and its whales.
If the Triple As fear gamers can hold them to uphold better standards, they might as well fear many people will learn to break from the indoctrination and see things for how they really are. This is a sign nonetheless advanced by Baldur's Gate 3. CRPGs, deserve rightfully to come back on the scene in front of everyone's eyes. Wherever it is, there will always be a Resistance, and my faith and "optimism" was backed from them since the start. And whoever tries to invade an hobby to change things for the worse, will never make me believe that there is not actually a chance for that. Changes to this industry won't happen over night, sometimes, it can a decade or two, and that's fine.
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quality shill thread