i dont feel comfortable calling venture they

[nobody]

im saying this as nicely as i can but it made me uncomfortable reading that dev update and the guy or girl saying they when addressing venture.

TLDR AT THE BOTTOM


MY POINT:

im not going to use pronouns. for those of you lgbt people who would take offense im not trying to offend. the reason i am making this post is because i just want to put out there, because i can, that i feel it is wrong to be forced to address people in a way that is to their perspective.

just because someone wants to be called a certain something doesnt mean people have to do it. i say this because i hear venture is some form of pronoun called they. i honestly cant tell if the character is a guy or a girl. i wanna say its a guy because i dont see any girl features on his body but i dont really know yet.






A SHORT STORY DISPLAYING AN EXAMPLE:


dont take it personally because its not just pronouns. when i was at a gas station at the end of covid 19, i was just doing my usual runs to the store for my 20 ounce drink. i got it around the same time every day for months. it was a routine before i moved. one day i grab the soda out of the fridge by the door as usual and get in line.

then i hear the words "excuse me sir im in line" coming from behind me. i turn around and there is a lady 20 feet behind where i stood behind the guy getting rung up. i said "come on up" she said "i dont like being close to people im sorry if that bothers you"

i then turned and looked toward the guy in front and waited to be next. she comes up next to me and says the same words again "i dont like being close to people im sorry if that bothers you"

i of course ignored her. i didnt even look at her. she steps forward just ahead of me as if she wanted to compete for the spot in line. i stepped back. i mean she came up and i wasnt gonna react to her. i stood behind her. she walked out the store. 1 minute later im being glared at by a different woman through the door. i look at her and then i look back toward the guy and pay for my drink and i walk out and go about my usual routine.

the next day i did the same thing as always except she wasnt there just as she wasnt the day before the incident. it was just a bump in the road to me nothing more.



MORAL OF THE STORY:

i shouldnt have to adhere to someone elses personal rules. just because someone expects me to do something they want me to do doesnt mean im gonna do it. just as that woman wasnt gonna get me to play her little emotional game of its about me, no company or group of people is gonna force me to call someone something that doesnt feel right to me.

thats really i wanted to share.




TLDR:

i dont feel comfortable calling someone something that isnt biological. gender to me is biology not psychology. and no one is going to force me to address someone a certain way just because they expect me too. its nothing personal and im not trying to be rude. however, i do find it rude to pressure me into calling someone something i dont feel confortable saying. venture to me is most likely a guy because he doesnt seem to have any breasts that i can tell. but i dont know.

[Basarab Laiota]

Nobody's gonna force you, but they will ban you.

[nobody]

well if that happens then ill just find another game. overwatch 2 is fun and ill never forget the unique experience, but if im going to be punished for refusing to be unconfortable then ill have to find something else.

forcing someone to do something by punishing them for not doing it sounds alot like tyranny. the way i see it, if blizzard is going to act like a tyrant and justify it with you must do certain things, then ill find my fun elsewhere. im not harming anyone by refusing to be unconfortable. its not against the law to refuse to address people a certain way.

there are 1000s of games out there. im sure i can find a suitable replacement should i get banned.

thank you for the warning though.

[Mina]

You don’t have to, no one forces you to but your own character and who you are as a person

[nobody]

glad to hear it

[Sledge]

When Venture first came out, seemed like a girl to me.

Still seems like a girl now, albeit a bit of a goofy one, tomboy essentially.

I'll respect and uphold chosen pronouns in real life for people out of courtesy and respect, but I couldn't give a toss as to what a video game character identifies as.

They're a set of pixels, they aren't real. They have no feelings, thoughts, or sentience. I typically leave in-game chat for the smack talk and banter anyway, so Venture's pronouns or gender identity wouldn't come in conversation for me anyway.

I've been playing OW since day one, supposedly, Tracer is a Lesbian in the comics which is great for her. As a non-comic reader, I don't care? It has no bearing on whether I pick her in a match or how I talk about her. If anything, I remember the nonsense over her in-game pose emphasising her backside way back when more so than anything to do with her gender identity or sexuality.

[Wicked]

I didn't read all that. I just call her...her.

[nobody]

i put a tldr at the bottom of it for those who dont wish to read all that

[nobody]

Originally posted by Joker Drug Addict:

When Venture first came out, seemed like a girl to me.

Still seems like a girl now, albeit a bit of a goofy one, tomboy essentially.

I'll respect and uphold chosen pronouns in real life for people out of courtesy and respect, but I couldn't give a toss as to what a video game character identifies as.

They're a set of pixels, they aren't real. They have no feelings, thoughts, or sentience. I typically leave in-game chat for the smack talk and banter anyway, so Venture's pronouns or gender identity wouldn't come in conversation for me anyway.

I've been playing OW since day one, supposedly, Tracer is a Lesbian in the comics which is great for her. As a non-comic reader, I don't care? It has no bearing on whether I pick her in a match or how I talk about her. If anything, I remember the nonsense over her in-game pose emphasising her backside way back when more so than anything to do with her gender identity or sexuality.

thats why i said i cant tell yet lol. i can see what you mean by tomboy seeing as i do see some girl in her as well. there is just no breasts so i just cant tell yet. venture wasnt released long enough for me anyways to really get a good look.

as for real life well i just dont talk to lgbt much in general. i dont want to risk trouble. and i can tell at least from my personal experience that they are very sensitive about their need to be addressed properly. i just cant get myself to do it. it dont sit right with me. so i just dont have much to say to em.

[Valore]

Originally posted by mystery:

TLDR:

i dont feel comfortable calling someone something that isnt biological. gender to me is biology not psychology. and no one is going to force me to address someone a certain way just because they expect me too. its nothing personal and im not trying to be rude. however, i do find it rude to pressure me into calling someone something i dont feel confortable saying. venture to me is most likely a guy because he doesnt seem to have any breasts that i can tell. but i dont know.

A rule that's extremely common in most forums and communities, is that baiting or flamebaiting will get you banned.

Let's be real here, the majority of people who 'misgender' someone repeatedly do it intentionally to annoy, harass or otherwise fish for a reaction. They don't know any real detail or really give two s**** about gender dysphoria, non-binary or trans issues.

Whether this applies to you or not, only you know.

Misgendering isn't what gets most people banned by some mysterious LGBT Illuminati that's running the show behind the scenes.

It's being an annoying troll that generally just turns online communities into a divisive flame war pissing off mods and admins that don't get paid to put up with your BS. That's to address the 'being banned' part, unless you're intentionally giving people more work by going onto the official forums or spamming something ingame, it's unlikely you'll take a ban for mislabelling someone.

However, you can justify all you want about being 'uncomfortable' about something. I have no doubt you may be, no one is denying your discomfort is genuine and exists.

But if you were to go around saying 'I'm uncomfortable around black people' or 'I'm uncomfortable around LGBT people', don't be surprised if the reactions you get aren't exactly positive.

Using your justification, racial slurs are perfectly permissible. Just like gender, race is biology, not psychology.

Under your 'rules', someone can say 'Oh, I want to call you this racial slur, because in my mind race is what defines you as a person, and forcing me not to refer to you as such makes me uncomfortable because this slur is what I am accustomed to referring to people of your race as'.

It's your life, live it how you want, but don't act the martyr when there are consequences. You don't need to post a whole life story to try to win sympathy about why you want to act the way you do.

[Valore]

Originally posted by mystery:

okay valore. im sorry but i disagree with you. i feel you are taking what i said personally. im sorry if i caused you any offense. the reason i disagree with you is because i believe what defines a person more then anything is biology and choices. this is my personal opinion nothing more. biology defines your gender in my eyes and the choices we make define the rest.

i know someone who is attracted to little girls. he never acts on it. i would know because i have known him for over 7 years now. i will not disclose his name but i found it amazing that he can have such disgusting attractions, and yet he doesnt let himself be defined by them. HE CHOOSES to be better then that. he said to me when he revealed his secret and i asked him dont you ever get tempted? he says "everytime but i will never tramatize a child. i am more then my flaws." i asked him dont you ever feel fear or hate toward those who would call you a pedofile even though you never acted on your impulses? he says "no because im not a pedofile. im a human being who knows that what i have is disgusting but i know im more then that."

i was amazed by his words. and so i believe our choices define us not our attractions.

Yes, and years ago people believed that black people's biology made them less smart and more suitable for manual labor.

People believe a lot of dumb things.

[nobody]

Originally posted by Valore:

Originally posted by mystery:

okay valore. im sorry but i disagree with you. i feel you are taking what i said personally. im sorry if i caused you any offense. the reason i disagree with you is because i believe what defines a person more then anything is biology and choices. this is my personal opinion nothing more. biology defines your gender in my eyes and the choices we make define the rest.

i know someone who is attracted to little girls. he never acts on it. i would know because i have known him for over 7 years now. i will not disclose his name but i found it amazing that he can have such disgusting attractions, and yet he doesnt let himself be defined by them. HE CHOOSES to be better then that. he said to me when he revealed his secret and i asked him dont you ever get tempted? he says "everytime but i will never tramatize a child. i am more then my flaws." i asked him dont you ever feel fear or hate toward those who would call you a pedofile even though you never acted on your impulses? he says "no because im not a pedofile. im a human being who knows that what i have is disgusting but i know im more then that."

i was amazed by his words. and so i believe our choices define us not our attractions.

Yes, and years ago people believed that black people's biology made them less smart and more suitable for manual labor.

People believe a lot of dumb things.

yes thats true. and deformed people with missing limbs or other issues went to circuses to find acceptance because they werent feared at the circus. but times have changed and with advances in medicine we now realize the cause behind those things. the veil was lifted on the unknown and with it the fear is now gone.

all i was saying is i dont feel confortable being pressured to do something. i didnt cave into pressure as a kid and im not doing it now. thats why i never started smoking like alot of other kids i knew in the day. i personally dont find myself to be bias in any way for choosing to not be unconfortable. thats why i dont speak to lgbt because i know they wont agree with my views.

so in this case i just wanted to say that i dont feel comfortable calling venture a they. life story or not i just wanted people to know my reasons.

im gonna go to bed now everyone. thanks for the discussion.

[Valore]

Originally posted by mystery:

yes thats true. and deformed people with missing limbs or other issues went to circuses to find acceptance because they werent feared at the circus. but times have changed and with advances in medicine we now realize the cause behind those things. the veil was lifted on the unknown and with it the fear is now gone.

Or they tried to cure perfectly normal people with lobotomies and shock therapy because they didn't conform to what 'uncomfortable' people decided was 'normal'.

Originally posted by mystery:

all i was saying is i dont feel confortable being pressured to do something. i didnt cave into pressure as a kid and im not doing it now. thats why i never started smoking like alot of other kids i knew in the day.

So you also never started eating vegetables and you also to this day have never brushed your teeth because you never let your parents pressure you into anything.

Funny how silly it sounds when 'being pressured' seems to be so liberally used to describe learning more or being more open minded and used as a convenient excuse not to do so.

[Valore]

Originally posted by Ignosius:

Dude, no one is saying we need to "fix" people, we just don't want to use special pronouns. That's literally it. No one is being attacked here.

No one is saying they don't have a right to exist, just that we don't want to change our language because it would make them "comfortable".

No, you're saying people have a right to exist, but only as how you see them and are willing to define them, and your comfort matters more than theirs.

You're perfectly entitled to that view. As I've clearly stated I only have a problem when you or others start trying to imply that's you being 'more reasonable' and others are 'forcing' you to do something 'unreasonable'.

The fact is referring to individuals as 'they/them' is pretty common. It's not hugely unnatural. People only whip out that straw man now when they want a stupid hill to die on regarding the non-binary pronoun debate.

No one ever had a fit when you called your friend's home and their mom said 'oh they're not here right now can I get them to call you back?'. So to claim otherwise is 100% disingenuous.

Be as discriminatory as you want. Just stop trying to gaslight the rest of us into thinking you're the victims of 'woke' or 'political correctness gone wrong' or whatever dumb buzzword you want to use.

At the end of the day you're eventually going to be the wierd aunt, uncle or grandparent who keeps insisting that using words like 'colored people' isn't racist, and stop trying to 'change their language'. If you're fine with that, more power to you.

[Ignosius]

Originally posted by Valore:

No, you're saying people have a right to exist, but only as how you see them and are willing to define them, and your comfort matters more than theirs.

But I'm not asking them to change? They can live how they want, dress how they want, whatever. I just don't want to use special words for them that I don't use for anyone else.

Originally posted by Valore:

The fact is referring to individuals as 'they/them' is pretty common. It's not hugely unnatural. People only whip out that straw man now when they want a stupid hill to die on regarding the non-binary pronoun debate.

This is literally not true. Singular "they" is used when the gender of the individual is unknown. It is incredibly unnatural to use it for a defined and known person. You know this as well as I do, but you're attempting to gaslight people.

Originally posted by Valore:

No one ever had a fit when you called your friend's home and their mom said 'oh they're not here right now can I get them to call you back?'. So to claim otherwise is 100% disingenuous.

No one had a fit because this didn't happen. My friend was either a boy or a girl, so their mom would have said "Oh, he/she's not here right now", since their mom would be fully aware of the gender of her kid. Again, there is no way you don't know this, since you seem to be fluent in English. Stop gaslighting.

Originally posted by Valore:

Be as discriminatory as you want. Just stop trying to gaslight the rest of us into thinking you're the victims of 'woke' or 'political correctness gone wrong' or whatever dumb buzzword you want to use.

If I refuse to use someone's fursona because they identify as a wolf and not a human, am I being discriminatory? I don't personally believe so. I think it would be pretty weird to pretend someone is something they're not.

[Valore]

Originally posted by Ignosius:

Originally posted by Valore:

No, you're saying people have a right to exist, but only as how you see them and are willing to define them, and your comfort matters more than theirs.

But I'm not asking them to change? They can live how they want, dress how they want, whatever. I just don't want to use special words for them that I don't use for anyone else.

Nice to meet you, what's your name? Ignosius? That's a funny name. Nah in my mind you don't really look like an Ignosius, sorry. You're more a... Twinklebutt. Yeah, that suits you more in my mind. I'll just keep calling you Twinklebutt, that's more comfortable for me, you're okay with that right? Nice to meet you Twinklebutt.

Originally posted by Ignosius:

This is literally not true. Singular "they" is used when the gender of the individual is unknown. It is incredibly unnatural to use it for a defined and known person. You know this as well as I do, but you're attempting to gaslight people.

Disagree. You're more than welcome to show me proof from an established English teaching/learning resource that has a rule that says it is 'INCREDIBLY UNNATURAL'. It's not. It works fine, people will understand what you're saying contextually, and normal people move on with their lives.

Originally posted by Ignosius:

If I refuse to use someone's fursona because they identify as a wolf and not a human, am I being discriminatory? I don't personally believe so. I think it would be pretty weird to pretend someone is something they're not.

This seems a particularly strange and selective stance to take when we're here with made up online usernames talking about fictional characters in a video game.