Thoughts on Forced 50/50?

[Thing of Chaos]

I feel it's definitely real. I'll be doing decently in matches and out of nowhere, I'm put on a team that can't play around Orisa

[Froog]

Originally posted by whatever floats your boat.:

Originally posted by Sage of Chaos:

I feel it's definitely real. I'll be doing decently in matches and out of nowhere, I'm put on a team that can't play around Orisa

its rigged match making. thats why you see no matter how hard you try your win loss rate is the same. when i played ow in the day every public profile showed similiar results. 150 wins 200 losses or 1300 wins 1200 losses etc. always around the same numbers.

heck i ate pizza once while playing and just used one hand to run and that was it. and i was carried by 4 people. it was funny.

you want fair play your in the wrong community. the only thing this community will give you is report spam, fear to speak, and rigged match making. they will of course lie to you and tell you your skill matters even though you can at times play one handed and be carried doing nothing. its not all the time but hey it happens.

it's not rigged, with the mmr system you get a 50% wr if you stop improving

[Basarab Laiota]

meh game's fun whether i win or lose

[Rogue です]

Not real, get better at the game

[[JRE] Joe Rogan]

Originally posted by Froog:

Originally posted by whatever floats your boat.:

its rigged match making. thats why you see no matter how hard you try your win loss rate is the same. when i played ow in the day every public profile showed similiar results. 150 wins 200 losses or 1300 wins 1200 losses etc. always around the same numbers.

heck i ate pizza once while playing and just used one hand to run and that was it. and i was carried by 4 people. it was funny.

you want fair play your in the wrong community. the only thing this community will give you is report spam, fear to speak, and rigged match making. they will of course lie to you and tell you your skill matters even though you can at times play one handed and be carried doing nothing. its not all the time but hey it happens.

it's not rigged, with the mmr system you get a 50% wr if you stop improving

Who was that high level streamer that recently showed it was rigged? Like yea you can break out of the rigging ofc but you have to be a much higher skill level than what the game expects to get out of it meaning if you’re hard stuck gold you will never reach plat by being a plat skill level you’d have to be closer to a mid to high diamond to break into plat at that point. Once the game puts you in a rank it locks you in your expected mmr and just yo yos you between a range that you’re supposed to be in.

Again if anyone remembers the streamer who did this but he showed on a mature account it was taking him forever to get to GM and he was hard stuck in Master but then he made a new account and easily hit into GM because the game didn’t have an expected elo assigned to him yet.

So it’s a good bit of luck that gets involved in your early matches that gets you placed at your mmr as well as skill. This idea that this matchmaking isn’t rigged needs to stop, it’s a myth that mmr is rigged and other companies have admitted that this is how they’ve done their matchmaking. If you’re naive enough to believe that a predatory and gigantic video game company like Activision isn’t using the same type of matchmaking systems as other popular companies then you’re being delusional at this point.

There’s tons of evidence of this and the fact that thousands of people go on forums and complain about it should be telling enough, the quality of matches people get is not just a coincidence. I mean yes the matchmaking works to an extent it will place you around where you’re expected to be and yes better players will typically be playing with each other you’re not gonna be a Silver skill level and get into Masters or vice versa and be hard stuck.

That being said I’ve even heard streamers like Awkward say that even players in Masters sometimes feel like they play worse than Plat level players and he’s probably not lying either they were boosted into being a Masters account or just got lucky a lot of times and the issue becomes you’ll have people who are too high ranked not being dropped out of their rank cuz the game is forcing wins and loses based on their expected range or vice versa really good players who are hard stuck for the same reason.

Yes you can brute force it to change either by throwing or by just being way above the expected skill level ie being a different person, this idea that you’re gonna improve slowly over time and your rating will reflect that is not accurate though IMO, easiest way to tell if you’ve improved is by making a new account and doing 30 or so matches, that’s the most accurate assessment of your skill level at the time not by playing on your main.

[Froog]

Originally posted by MSFT Jeff Kaplan:

Originally posted by Froog:

it's not rigged, with the mmr system you get a 50% wr if you stop improving

Who was that high level streamer that recently showed it was rigged? Like yea you can break out of the rigging ofc but you have to be a much higher skill level than what the game expects to get out of it meaning if you’re hard stuck gold you will never reach plat by being a plat skill level you’d have to be closer to a mid to high diamond to break into plat at that point. Once the game puts you in a rank it locks you in your expected mmr and just yo yos you between a range that you’re supposed to be in.

Again if anyone remembers the streamer who did this but he showed on a mature account it was taking him forever to get to GM and he was hard stuck in Master but then he made a new account and easily hit into GM because the game didn’t have an expected elo assigned to him yet.

So it’s a good bit of luck that gets involved in your early matches that gets you placed at your mmr as well as skill. This idea that this matchmaking isn’t rigged needs to stop, it’s a myth that mmr is rigged and other companies have admitted that this is how they’ve done their matchmaking. If you’re naive enough to believe that a predatory and gigantic video game company like Activision isn’t using the same type of matchmaking systems as other popular companies then you’re being delusional at this point.

There’s tons of evidence of this and the fact that thousands of people go on forums and complain about it should be telling enough, the quality of matches people get is not just a coincidence. I mean yes the matchmaking works to an extent it will place you around where you’re expected to be and yes better players will typically be playing with each other you’re not gonna be a Silver skill level and get into Masters or vice versa and be hard stuck.

That being said I’ve even heard streamers like Awkward say that even players in Masters sometimes feel like they play worse than Plat level players and he’s probably not lying either they were boosted into being a Masters account or just got lucky a lot of times and the issue becomes you’ll have people who are too high ranked not being dropped out of their rank cuz the game is forcing wins and loses based on their expected range or vice versa really good players who are hard stuck for the same reason.

Yes you can brute force it to change either by throwing or by just being way above the expected skill level ie being a different person, this idea that you’re gonna improve slowly over time and your rating will reflect that is not accurate though IMO, easiest way to tell if you’ve improved is by making a new account and doing 30 or so matches, that’s the most accurate assessment of your skill level at the time not by playing on your main.

If the game locks you into a rank how do you climb? Everyone is playing through the same system if you are a plat player and can't get out of gold maybe your not actually a plat player. I don't know the streamer that you are talking about if you could find those videos it would be interesting to watch.

Also playing on a mature account doesn't mean you can't climb, there is an entire blackmarket of people buying and selling boost for this game. I wish people would stop placing such an importance on rank and just become better players, that's the only way to truly rank up consistently, not by trying to game or exploit the system.

[Froog]

Originally posted by bradams:

Originally posted by Valore:

That's how every matchmaker works. You get put against harder and harder obstacles until you stop. That's your rank.

Everyone gets the same obstacles. So where's the unfairness?

Unless you want to include premade teams, in which case, make some friends instead of complaining.

Your rank isn't an exact 100% measure of your skill level. But it pretty much says something, and the majority of those who can't climb and aren't happy are those who have an inflated view of themselves.

What's the alternative? No matchmaker, and you get whatever nonsense is in queue? That sounds far worse.

There are 2 types of ways that matchmakers can achieve this result, the good way, or the Overwatch way.

The good way is it searches for teammates of similar MMR to yours, and puts your team against a full other team of similar MMR, and the match is an honest to god 50/50 chance between 2 equal opponents, and because of this, you will naturally gravitate towards the 50% W/L rate, though it will fluctuate a little.

The Overwatch way is if your MMR is say, 100, and you hit 51% W/L rating, you get a team of other 100 MMR players with a 51% W/L rating and go against a team of five 700 MMR players with a 49% W/L streak to where every singular player on their team can curb stomp your whole team into the floor singlehandedly. After they have brutally littered the map with your teeth, your W/L goes down to 50% and their's goes back up to 50%, perfectly balanced, as Overwatch thinks it should be.

Both achieve a 50% W/L ratio, but in example 1, everything is fair and theoretically fun. In example 2 (the way Overwatch does it), the odds are so obviously and obscenely stacked in 1 teams favor that you know by the end of the first engagement if you are the team the matchmaker wants to win, or the team it wants to lose, and your input barely matters because of how crazy skewed the matches are, and it isn't fun for anybody because the team intended to lose feels helpless and gives up immediately, and the team who is intended to win can't even enjoy earning the victory because it is the equivalent of a championship bodybuilder having a lifting competition with a 3 day old baby. There is literally no challenge and thus, the win means nothing because it was impossible NOT to win.

The devs have explained the match maker before, the system is really trying to get you into a game as close to 50% as it can based off your mmr rating, it doesn not take win rate into account but it will settle for numbers higher or lower than 50% based off the available player pool how long the match maker is taking.

You gain/loss more mmr if you are predicted to win or lose, if the match is really close to 50% or is 50% you don't gain/loss any extra mmr. In ranked you can see when this happens it's called Reversal and Uphill Battle. For a Reversal it's when you were favored and you lost and for Uphill Battle it's when you are not favored but you still won.

Originally posted by Valore:

This is why in Overwatch, everybody who isn't helplessly invested in the game notices that every match is a curbstomp, where your team either pushes the point effortlessly from start to finish, or you can't even get out of the spawn room. Its just not fun for anybody except people who are in too deep that they can't accept how bad and unfun it truly is.

If you are being spawn trapped constantly it's prob a skill issue, spawn gives you hp and your whole team has spawn advantage.

[Max]

Originally posted by MSFT Jeff Kaplan:

Originally posted by Froog:

it's not rigged, with the mmr system you get a 50% wr if you stop improving

Who was that high level streamer that recently showed it was rigged? Like yea you can break out of the rigging ofc but you have to be a much higher skill level than what the game expects to get out of it meaning if you’re hard stuck gold you will never reach plat by being a plat skill level you’d have to be closer to a mid to high diamond to break into plat at that point. Once the game puts you in a rank it locks you in your expected mmr and just yo yos you between a range that you’re supposed to be in.

Again if anyone remembers the streamer who did this but he showed on a mature account it was taking him forever to get to GM and he was hard stuck in Master but then he made a new account and easily hit into GM because the game didn’t have an expected elo assigned to him yet.

So it’s a good bit of luck that gets involved in your early matches that gets you placed at your mmr as well as skill. This idea that this matchmaking isn’t rigged needs to stop, it’s a myth that mmr is rigged and other companies have admitted that this is how they’ve done their matchmaking. If you’re naive enough to believe that a predatory and gigantic video game company like Activision isn’t using the same type of matchmaking systems as other popular companies then you’re being delusional at this point.

There’s tons of evidence of this and the fact that thousands of people go on forums and complain about it should be telling enough, the quality of matches people get is not just a coincidence. I mean yes the matchmaking works to an extent it will place you around where you’re expected to be and yes better players will typically be playing with each other you’re not gonna be a Silver skill level and get into Masters or vice versa and be hard stuck.

That being said I’ve even heard streamers like Awkward say that even players in Masters sometimes feel like they play worse than Plat level players and he’s probably not lying either they were boosted into being a Masters account or just got lucky a lot of times and the issue becomes you’ll have people who are too high ranked not being dropped out of their rank cuz the game is forcing wins and loses based on their expected range or vice versa really good players who are hard stuck for the same reason.

Yes you can brute force it to change either by throwing or by just being way above the expected skill level ie being a different person, this idea that you’re gonna improve slowly over time and your rating will reflect that is not accurate though IMO, easiest way to tell if you’ve improved is by making a new account and doing 30 or so matches, that’s the most accurate assessment of your skill level at the time not by playing on your main.

1- streamer play with premade, this break the MM 50% , otherwise wise their q time will be for 30 min.

2- you can't carry unless if you are widdo or tracer , if you played tank or mercy you are depending on your team.
You may give them better chance if you played like zen but no way you can carry unless the other team was bad.

3- you can't carry team who go 1 vs 5 then spawn-traped meanwhile the other team has perfect comb

4-Also are you ok compare people who play for living to avg players lolbwho go back from school or job?

[peanut]

its more 20/80 than anything, go on like a 4 win streak then you lose 10 in a row. go from having people with a brain to bronze players that somehow got to plat or diamond.

[peanut]

Originally posted by bradams:

Originally posted by Valore:

That's how every matchmaker works. You get put against harder and harder obstacles until you stop. That's your rank.

Everyone gets the same obstacles. So where's the unfairness?

Unless you want to include premade teams, in which case, make some friends instead of complaining.

Your rank isn't an exact 100% measure of your skill level. But it pretty much says something, and the majority of those who can't climb and aren't happy are those who have an inflated view of themselves.

What's the alternative? No matchmaker, and you get whatever nonsense is in queue? That sounds far worse.

There are 2 types of ways that matchmakers can achieve this result, the good way, or the Overwatch way.

The good way is it searches for teammates of similar MMR to yours, and puts your team against a full other team of similar MMR, and the match is an honest to god 50/50 chance between 2 equal opponents, and because of this, you will naturally gravitate towards the 50% W/L rate, though it will fluctuate a little.

The Overwatch way is if your MMR is say, 100, and you hit 51% W/L rating, you get a team of other 100 MMR players with a 51% W/L rating and go against a team of five 700 MMR players with a 49% W/L streak to where every singular player on their team can curb stomp your whole team into the floor singlehandedly. After they have brutally littered the map with your teeth, your W/L goes down to 50% and their's goes back up to 50%, perfectly balanced, as Overwatch thinks it should be.

Both achieve a 50% W/L ratio, but in example 1, everything is fair and theoretically fun. In example 2 (the way Overwatch does it), the odds are so obviously and obscenely stacked in 1 teams favor that you know by the end of the first engagement if you are the team the matchmaker wants to win, or the team it wants to lose, and your input barely matters because of how crazy skewed the matches are, and it isn't fun for anybody because the team intended to lose feels helpless and gives up immediately, and the team who is intended to win can't even enjoy earning the victory because it is the equivalent of a championship bodybuilder having a lifting competition with a 3 day old baby. There is literally no challenge and thus, the win means nothing because it was impossible NOT to win.

This is why in Overwatch, everybody who isn't helplessly invested in the game notices that every match is a curbstomp, where your team either pushes the point effortlessly from start to finish, or you can't even get out of the spawn room. Its just not fun for anybody except people who are in too deep that they can't accept how bad and unfun it truly is.

this 100% I wouldnt mind losing if it was an actually even match, but the steamroll after steamroll is ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ ridiculous.

[Froog]

Originally posted by bradams:

Originally posted by Froog:

The devs have explained the match maker before, the system is really trying to get you into a game as close to 50% as it can based off your mmr rating, it doesn not take win rate into account but it will settle for numbers higher or lower than 50% based off the available player pool how long the match maker is taking.

You gain/loss more mmr if you are predicted to win or lose, if the match is really close to 50% or is 50% you don't gain/loss any extra mmr. In ranked you can see when this happens it's called Reversal and Uphill Battle. For a Reversal it's when you were favored and you lost and for Uphill Battle it's when you are not favored but you still won.



If you are being spawn trapped constantly it's prob a skill issue, spawn gives you hp and your whole team has spawn advantage.

And if the matches are supposed to be even, why is there even a "favored" team to begin with? If the game is putting you in matches where you odds of winning are 1 in 100, giving you more MMR in the EXTREMELY unlikely chance that you pull it off doesn't change the fact that its absolutely rigged.

If the matches were fair, there wouldn't be a "favored" team. There would be 2 even teams. That's how a fair competition works. You notice that in the NBA or the NFL, they don't have seasoned veteran teams made up of professionals going against high school and college teams, right? That's because it wouldn't be fair, aka, RIGGED. Adding in a cute term called a "reversal" doesn't change the fact that the term only exists because the matches aren't fair, aka, rigged/forced.

Oh, and yea, getting spawn trapped would be a skill issue, except you know when that skill issue would never exist? If both teams had the SAME skill, and not one team having an insanely higher amount of skill than the other team.

The funniest part of this to me, is how your entire defense of how fair and balanced Blizzards matchmaking is, started with "there is a favored team who is intended to win". its ironic because, if it was just letting 2 teams of equal skill play against each other, it wouldn't have this "favored team" thing. Its almost like setting up 2 teams of similar skill isn't what its trying to do, and more like its trying to force some sort of perfect percentage or something. Weird.

there will always be a favored to win team , the system tries to put together a 50/50 lobby as much as it can

in any system that uses sr or elo, even in chess... you gain more elo if you are predicted to lose and lose more if you are predicted to win...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elo_rating_system,

overwatch uses this system , it's not rigged, the closes thing to being rigged is as of last update in comp they will put you on the favored team if you are on a losing streak, and give you an indication of this after the match ends, but being on the 55% chance to win side vs the 45% chance to win is not a big difference

if you are concerned about the competitive integrity in the matchmaking system of this game you can use faceit's matchmaking, it's connected with the actual pro comp scene, but it uses elo and does the same thing of trying to put together close 50/50 games like every implementation of an elo system ever

https://support.faceit.com/hc/en-us/articles/12640770286876-Overwatch-2-Elo-FAQ