Premades are Killing This Game

[bladeddragonknight]

Solo players are just fodder for them. Either make them only match against other premades or watch the game die. People are QUITTING.

[Basarab Laiota]

You can't even tell if someone is in a group or not though

[Sugarcrash "Nekomancer" Kitsune]

Originally posted by Basarab Laiota:

You can't even tell if someone is in a group or not though

Inv to group > already in group

[daddy chill]

ya that never made sense- but guess what if they separated premade and solo now I doubt there would be anyone left to play either premade or solo. lmfao The damage has already been done by poor decision making. They bailed out by selling to msft.

They need to just force everyone to go solo. but that won't happen.

[THAT Guy]

I've yet to see a "premade" see Tons of "brostacks" who still have to rely on the matchmaking system to hard carry them to maintain minimum win rate thresholds for them..

However most of this problem is due to how the matchmaking is intended to function, and how it is forced to respond to parties in order to function as intended..

Grouped players are much harder for a matchmaking system to place than solo players..

For example, the total mmr a 5top is placed with is static, meaning matchmaking forced to try and build a compareable opposing team to match them against.

Since the matchmaking system is designed to enforce win rate thresholds, and most "brostacking" players are quite bad individually..

The matchmaking system is forced to grossly uneven matches to ensure the brostackers stay above mininum thresholds..

Being a upper teir player who prefers solo play, I see this all the time..

Infact matchmaking loves to use me as an mmr counterweight... to feed pitty wins to "brostacks"..

Love getting matched with players who would be more asset sitting in spawn afk. Just so the "brostack" can get a win they don't deserve..

The worst part, about the brostacks is how they behave though..

They run their mouths because they think they are good, ignorant to the fact how hard matchmaking is carrying them..

Then when it's not, they attack and bully others on the team who aren't part of their clique.. because its always the other players fault..

You defend yourself or fight back.. every one of them reports you..


I'm at the point in dealing with the "brostacks" where I just troll them..

Always feels good when I can make a degenerate rage so hard everyone else in the lobby reports them..

Even better when you see them crying about getting a punishment, in denial of the fact they deserved it.

[THAT Guy]

Originally posted by bradams:

Originally posted by bladeddragonknight:

Solo players are just fodder for them. Either make them only match against other premades or watch the game die. People are QUITTING.

Dude, they maintain W/L Ratios by putting good players on a losing streak against bad players on a winning streak. Every single solitary match you play of this game is either your team curbstomping your opponent so hard their kids feel it, or getting curbstomped so hard your kids feel it. Do you think Blizzard gives even the smallest crap about the integrity of the matches, or if premades are ruining it for solos?

They aren't going to separate premades from solos, or anything else that would improve the quality of matches for the players, because they don't CARE about the quality of the matches. They force a 50% W/L streak because an idiot investor would look at that and be fooled into thinking that matchmaker is doing well and that the game is well designed, that's it. Doesn't matter if every one of those matches is miserable for half the players in them because pleasing the players isn't what AAA gaming is about anymore, its about fooling investors to get their money.

Your MOSTLY Spot on..

However it's not about fooling investors... its about fooling players..

Look at all the players who are upset about the matchmaking experience, and genuinely believe, that it's because matchmaking is bad, when in reality it's actually quite good at what it was created to do.. they just refuse to believe it's not intended to create balanced matches, only the illusion of them being balanced, which it cannot do due to the declining state of the playerbase..

Market data shows that the most profitable audience in the free market also tend to be tends to be on the lower side of the intelligence spectrum..

Overwatch is a pretty complex game, and it's learning curve, would drive that profitable audience and their money away from the game. If the game had a more tradional matchmaking system..

Of they eventually see these same problems with it.. but at that point it doesn't matter since many of them had spent money by that point, and will stick around due to sunk cost fallacy..

In simple terms. It's designed to give stupid people and embellished experience early on, with the goal of trying to coax money out of them early on.. then relying on the "I gotta get value our of that money i spent" mentality to keep them as they begin to notice the reality..

Many games use this type of matchmaking system.. the problem is the more complex your game, the more self-destructive it is to the long-term health of both the game and its playerbase...

Let me list a few examples of games that have died to EOMM... TF2, splitgate, Gundam evolution. And Ow2 is showing many of the exact same early death spiral signs as those games did..

[﷽﷽﷽﷽﷽﷽﷽﷽﷽﷽]

Originally posted by bladeddragonknight:

Solo players are just fodder for them. Either make them only match against other premades or watch the game die. People are QUITTING.

Absolutely

Every time there was a bad player from pre-made party team
The party always defended their bad player with bad excuses and shift the blame to the solo que player or the player who brought up the issue of bad player from the pre-made party

I'd like add more there seems to be block limit for this game for some reason
I've been qued with the same blocked party players several times in a row to several 5+ losing sprees cuz I kept getting matched with the same party players that's how I noticed my block was not working

Only good thing Overwatch 2 have it going is that there is no communication report bs issues like Dota 2 the system for behaviour and communication system is worse than this game to point where single ping gets you reported and lose your behavior score

Originally posted by bradams:

Originally posted by THAT Guy:

Your MOSTLY Spot on..

However it's not about fooling investors... its about fooling players..

Look at all the players who are upset about the matchmaking experience, and genuinely believe, that it's because matchmaking is bad, when in reality it's actually quite good at what it was created to do.. they just refuse to believe it's not intended to create balanced matches, only the illusion of them being balanced, which it cannot do due to the declining state of the playerbase..

Market data shows that the most profitable audience in the free market also tend to be tends to be on the lower side of the intelligence spectrum..

Overwatch is a pretty complex game, and it's learning curve, would drive that profitable audience and their money away from the game. If the game had a more tradional matchmaking system..

Of they eventually see these same problems with it.. but at that point it doesn't matter since many of them had spent money by that point, and will stick around due to sunk cost fallacy..

In simple terms. It's designed to give stupid people and embellished experience early on, with the goal of trying to coax money out of them early on.. then relying on the "I gotta get value our of that money i spent" mentality to keep them as they begin to notice the reality..

Many games use this type of matchmaking system.. the problem is the more complex your game, the more self-destructive it is to the long-term health of both the game and its playerbase...

Let me list a few examples of games that have died to EOMM... TF2, splitgate, Gundam evolution. And Ow2 is showing many of the exact same early death spiral signs as those games did..

I would say its a mix of both. After all, most AAA games that fail miserably like Babylons Fall for example admit that most of their design decisions that everybody hated were forced on them by publishers who are themselves deciding everything they plan to push based on investor demands. I'm sure in the later half of a games lifespan their hope is to scam as much money out of players as possible, but when they are creating all of these things they are doing it at the demand of the investors, so in a way you could say when it comes to AAA scams, the investors are the first mark, and the players are the second, but we are all getting screwed.

They did pick their targets well though. Gamers are probably the only group of consumers who will get screwed, be shown proof that they are getting screwed, and still fight and argue in the defense of the person screwing them because that person is currently the one giving them a product that falsely inflates their self worth by convincing them that they are good at it as long as they keep coughing up cash.

Been a gamer all my life but modern gamers make me embarrassed to call myself that with how willing they are to throw away their self respect to defend games and companies that build their entire games and business models around screwing them.

Exactly
Every major corporation have their own shill defence team even for this platform steam/valve they all behave the same instead of admitting the problem always shift and gaslight the problem to the player instead of the company/corporation

[NinjaBlender]

Sorry you don't got 4 other friends

[THAT Guy]

Originally posted by NinjaBlender:

Sorry you don't got 4 other friends :corncob:

Oh I do, it's just we used to play highlander together so, it's not fun hard stomping 90% of lobbys..

I'm sure you'd be the first one crying about it if we did group together..

[bladeddragonknight]

Originally posted by NinjaBlender:

Sorry you don't got 4 other friends :corncob:

Who'd want to be friends with "useful" people like you?

[THAT Guy]

Originally posted by bladeddragonknight:

Originally posted by NinjaBlender:

Sorry you don't got 4 other friends :corncob:

Who'd want to be friends with "useful" people like you?

Seriously, I'm a grown almost 40 year old man.. you really think I want to interact with people half my age, who act like they are a quarter of it..


It's one thing to act like a 10 year old kid, when you are, it's another when much older than that..

I've never seen so many people who suffer from manchild syndrome gathered in one place...

I mean much of this playerbase behaves in a way that the 8-12 yearolds did in tf2 a decade ago.. I genuinely wonder how many of them were those tf2 kiddies, have done zero maturing in a decade..

[NinjaBlender]

struck a nerve I see

[Lateets]

git gud

[Dayvig]

Originally posted by THAT Guy:

Originally posted by bladeddragonknight:

Who'd want to be friends with "useful" people like you?

Seriously, I'm a grown almost 40 year old man.. you really think I want to interact with people half my age, who act like they are a quarter of it..


It's one thing to act like a 10 year old kid, when you are, it's another when much older than that..

I've never seen so many people who suffer from manchild syndrome gathered in one place...

I mean much of this playerbase behaves in a way that the 8-12 yearolds did in tf2 a decade ago.. I genuinely wonder how many of them were those tf2 kiddies, have done zero maturing in a decade..

Wow someone's mad

[shelledfade]

Never played this bad game and never will, but I'm going to add my 2cents here if what I'm reading is correct.

Warcraft 3 which came out in 2002 had a random matchmaking option and team matchmaking option, because the devs in 2002 understood an organized team vs a team of random players isn't even close to the same gameplay experience. The team of randoms will be obliterated and those people will have a very bad experience.

Any game nowadays that throws organized teams against individuals is a game that has no idea what it is trying to do. It's just lazy.

If that isn't how the game works then disregard the post but if I'm understanding this correctly then yeah, doesn't matter if its an RTS from 2002 or an arena-shooter, its all the same. Devs nowadays are absolutely brain dead.

Also only reason I came in here at all was an article I read on PCgamer stating overwatch 2 devs were trying to put blame on bobby kotick for greenlighting a steam release and they knew their game was going to be review bombed lol.

Don't get me wrong, that guy probably damaged a lot of games true potential, but I don't see how releasing it on steam has anything to do with the fact that this game just straight up sucks. If you know your game is going to be review-bombed because your players are dissatisfied with the product you should probably be addressing those claims instead of pointing the finger.

[THAT Guy]

Originally posted by bradams:

Originally posted by shelledfade:

Never played this bad game and never will, but I'm going to add my 2cents here if what I'm reading is correct.

Warcraft 3 which came out in 2002 had a random matchmaking option and team matchmaking option, because the devs in 2002 understood an organized team vs a team of random players isn't even close to the same gameplay experience. The team of randoms will be obliterated and those people will have a very bad experience.

Any game nowadays that throws organized teams against individuals is a game that has no idea what it is trying to do. It's just lazy.

If that isn't how the game works then disregard the post but if I'm understanding this correctly then yeah, doesn't matter if its an RTS from 2002 or an arena-shooter, its all the same. Devs nowadays are absolutely brain dead.

Also only reason I came in here at all was an article I read on PCgamer stating overwatch 2 devs were trying to put blame on bobby kotick for greenlighting a steam release and they knew their game was going to be review bombed lol.

Don't get me wrong, that guy probably damaged a lot of games true potential, but I don't see how releasing it on steam has anything to do with the fact that this game just straight up sucks. If you know your game is going to be review-bombed because your players are dissatisfied with the product you should probably be addressing those claims instead of pointing the finger.

Its not that releasing it on steam has to do with the fact that it sucks, its that in their own launcher, there were no reviews, so it was shielded from the hate. Essentially the whole dictator stance of "if I don't allow anybody to talk, nobody has anything bad to say about me!" stance, which they of course, loved.

Like yea, Bobby is probably the reason the development team is told to spend 99% of their effort on making skins and battlepass garbage. Yes, Bobby is probably the reason they only spent 5 minutes creating the matchmaker with the perimeters of "ensure all players stay at 50% W/L rate" and literally nothing else, resulting in every match being unfun. Bobby is the cause of a lot of this games problems, but devs themselves have shown that they are pretty lazy and don't understand balance either.

They sell skins for 30-40$ a pop, half the price of the entirety of Baldurs Gate 3 for example, and whine about how hard it is as if making 2 of these skins is equal to the the effort it took to make the entirety of Baldurs Gate 3 as their price point suggests. They dump out heros like Mowie that can only be beaten if both of your healers are specific characters and focus all of their skills on him, in a game that is designed on each hero having 1 specific weakness that a few other heros can individually exploit. They don't understand hard work or effort, and they don't understand balance. Bobby Kotic has nothing to do with that. So yea, he was a lot of the problems, but he wasn't all of them.

The steam release, was really nothing more than a show of desperation..

The health of the playerbase has been declining rapidly since launch, instead of attempting to address the reasons why it's declining. They released on steam in hopes to draw in fresh blood to mitigate the signs of the declining playerbase health...

Why come to steam knowing you'd get review bombed.. especially when you have to give up like 18% of any profits made though steam..

Why not go to epic, they only take 13%? I mean its clear blizzard wants evrry single cent, so why not go to the "cheaper" platform?

Because epic doesnt have a userbase compared to steam..

Here we are, how many months later, the playerbase health still declining, and the signs of it are becoming more and more obvious..

The leaver problem, the back fill "bug", and matchmaking making grossly unfair matches.. are all just results of that declining playerbase health..